times are changing and i need some help

[odpsp08]

im done.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by odpsp08

heyy... so my sorority isn't national and we're located in a smaller school. the past few semesters, we have gotten in trouble for "hazing" and people have gone to the school saying that they have heard things coming from our house. thank god we havent lost recognition, so now it is time for some changes. Im PM next semester and im trying to come up with some new, contructive ideas on how to pledge our girls, especially during the day time while they are at the house. im looking for anything that is stern and constructive with the pledges but at the same time, not seen or HEARD by anyone else. if anyone has any ideas please help me out! it sucks that things have to change but what are you gonna do?

A. Spend more time in English class. I'm too hungry to get my red pen out.
B. Stop hazing.
C. Keep your dirty laundry off the internet.
D. Talk to your active and alumnae sisters and brainstorm.
E. Search the threads here. If you think your problem is unique, you're probably wrong. Learn from the mistakes of others.

PS (Are you Omega Delta Pi?)

[knight_shadow]

^^^ No, she's not.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

A. Spend more time in English class. I'm too hungry to get my red pen out.
B. Stop hazing.
C. Keep your dirty laundry off the internet.
D. Talk to your active and alumnae sisters and brainstorm.
E. Search the threads here. If you think your problem is unique, you're probably wrong. Learn from the mistakes of others.

PS (Are you Omega Delta Pi?)

Probably Omega Delta Phi.

http://omegadeltaphi.org/

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by odpsp08

im looking for anything that is stern and constructive with the pledges but at the same time, not seen or HEARD by anyone else. if anyone has any ideas please help me out! it sucks that things have to change but what are you gonna do?

So you don't want alternatives to hazing, you want harder-to-detect hazing?

What are you gonna do? Stop hazing.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by odpsp08

having pledges enter the house through the back door is hazing, having them dress in house colors, and having them answer the phone.

You don't see nothing wrong with treating your pledges like second class citizens? You can have a tough and challenging pledge period without treating them as less then your self. Forcing menial chores on them, and setting them aside from members is not needed.

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by odpsp08

I just want some ideas on how we could get them to learn all of their information without treating them as a sister

How about one night a week, hosting a movie and snack night at the house, and before or afterwards, having an educational meeting? sit them down, teach them your history, your philosophies, and treat them as sisters, instead of treating them less than that. If you treat them as equals, you won't be hazing them. Other GLOs do it all the time. You can too.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

^^^ No, she's not.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by odpsp08

ok everyone calm down! im not saying i want to continue hazing...and if you look at what constitutes as hazing, everything pretty much does! having pledges enter the house through the back door is hazing, having them dress in house colors, and having them answer the phone. if we dont want to get in trouble with our school for hazing we pretty much have to have a tea party. I just want some ideas on how we could get them to learn all of their information without treating them as a sister, but not screaming in their face. (which we dont do, it's just an example)
and ree-Xi...i didnt know i was in english class right now, dont judge my grammar on an online site, im not looking for an A.
andddd i thought this was a place where i could look for ideas and advice. im not spreading my dirty laundry online. I have a predicament and im asking other greeks for their thoughts.

Gosh, where have I heard this before?

[33girl]

If what you're asking them to do doesn't either help them learn the history and operations of the sorority and Greek community or help them get to know its current and alumni members, I would call it hazing, and I'm more lax than 95% of the people on here.

There are plenty of things that you can do within the above limits I've mentioned, and not feel as though your pledges have skated their way to sisterhood. Have weekly quizzes on the history, etc and require a certain % of correct answers to pass. If someone continually is falling below that, ask if they're having any sort of issues or if they're just blowing it off. If it's the latter, terminate their pledgeship. I don't see the point of the phone answering or the door thing. Colors day is fine once a week (when all the fraternities and sororities are wearing letters, I assume your school has an official or traditional day like this) but constantly throughout pledging is a little ridiculous.

Everyone else: this is not an NPC sorority. They're not considered sisters from the moment they accept their bids. Please do not apply NPC standards to non-NPC groups, it just doesn't work and is borderline bigoted and narrow-minded. If you want these girls to have the same standards an NPC does, call up your HQ and ask them to colonize them.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If what you're asking them to do doesn't either help them learn the history and operations of the sorority and Greek community or help them get to know its current and alumni members, I would call it hazing, and I'm more lax than 95% of the people on here.

This isn't what distinguishes hazing from nonhazing for every GLO and nonGLO. A lot of methods have been used to help (read: make) pledges learn and encourage/instill sisterhood and brotherhood. When pledges learn and are close with each other and the actives, people say "look, our methods work!!! There's no other way to do this. Anything else is skating."

Originally Posted by 33girl

There are plenty of things that you can do within the above limits I've mentioned, and not feel as though your pledges have skated their way to sisterhood.

I agree.

However, even a colors day once a week (which I hope no one considers someone working their way into an organization LOL) is considered hazing and can get chapters in trouble in some organizations. It is a way of identifying and unifying pledges that has no clear purpose beyond that and the aspirants are usually not participating by choice. Sure, they got dressed by choice and look willing but saying "no" wouldn't go over well and they know that.

With that said, anything that chapters do must be done in line with their organization's and school's regulations. They need to know when they are breaking the rules versus thinking that everything that sounds wonderful and harmless is acceptable. We can complain about the definition of hazing and how strict it is all we want, but it doesn't erase the fact that such regulations exist.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If what you're asking them to do doesn't either help them learn the history and operations of the sorority and Greek community or help them get to know its current and alumni members, I would call it hazing, and I'm more lax than 95% of the people on here.

There are plenty of things that you can do within the above limits I've mentioned, and not feel as though your pledges have skated their way to sisterhood. Have weekly quizzes on the history, etc and require a certain % of correct answers to pass. If someone continually is falling below that, ask if they're having any sort of issues or if they're just blowing it off. If it's the latter, terminate their pledgeship. I don't see the point of the phone answering or the door thing. Colors day is fine once a week (when all the fraternities and sororities are wearing letters, I assume your school has an official or traditional day like this) but constantly throughout pledging is a little ridiculous.

Everyone else: this is not an NPC sorority. They're not considered sisters from the moment they accept their bids. Please do not apply NPC standards to non-NPC groups, it just doesn't work and is borderline bigoted and narrow-minded. If you want these girls to have the same standards an NPC does, call up your HQ and ask them to colonize them.

I take exception to the use of the word "bigoted" here.

But there's a difference between treating pledges as sisters and treating them like your personal slaves. I'm not going to sign on to the latter just because they're a local.

Even what you suggested, reacting to poor scores with a caring concern, seems to be out of the immediate experience of this poster.

If you're trying NOT to lose recognition, don't sound like you're trying to think of "secret hazing" techniques, especially if it is all over campus that you (apparently) haze already.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Everyone else: this is not an NPC sorority. They're not considered sisters from the moment they accept their bids. Please do not apply NPC standards to non-NPC groups, it just doesn't work and is borderline bigoted and narrow-minded. If you want these girls to have the same standards an NPC does, call up your HQ and ask them to colonize them.

I figured as much. She needs to stay off of GC. Seriously.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by odpsp08

having pledges enter the house through the back door is hazing...having them answer the phone.

Why would you even want to do such childish, immature things? Are you not young women preparing for the workforce? Perhaps you could attempt to be adults and your hazing troubles will be alleviated.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

But there's a difference between treating pledges as sisters and treating them like your personal slaves.

There's a middle ground though.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

However, even a colors day once a week (which I hope no one considers someone working their way into an organization LOL) is considered hazing and can get chapters in trouble in some organizations. It is a way of identifying and unifying pledges that has no clear purpose beyond that and the aspirants are usually not participating by choice. Sure, they got dressed by choice and look willing but saying "no" wouldn't go over well and they know that.

Well, it depends how far "colors" day goes. If your colors are pink and blue and you wear a pink shirt and blue jeans, and it stops there, that's fine. But if your colors are purple and green and you must dress in them from head to toe (including undies) that's over the top. And as I said, at many schools there's an unofficial day where the whole Greek community wears letters. If it's part of that I don't see a problem with it (as locals usually don't let their letters be worn until initiation).

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by odpsp08

ok everyone calm down! im not saying i want to continue hazing...

Definitely the impression given by your post.

and if you look at what constitutes as hazing, everything pretty much does! having pledges enter the house through the back door is hazing, having them dress in house colors, and having them answer the phone. if we dont want to get in trouble with our school for hazing we pretty much have to have a tea party.

Serious question: Who says having pledges enter through the back door, having them dress in house colors or having them answer the phone is hazing? I'd be amazed if your state law does. Does the school classify these things as hazing?

If yes, then you need to be having a conversation appropriate people at your school about how to construct a pledge process that does not include what your school would classify as hazing. What are other sororities on your campus doing?

If no, then it really doesn't matter whether another org would consider these things hazing. But you really need to ask yourselves what constructive purpose is served by things like making the pledges answer the phone or use the back door.