[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

To the bolded black point:
It is actually quite realistic for "our*" subcultures to be exposed to the culture at large without the expectation that the members of the culture at large will want to participate. Especially when "our" particular subculture has historically been demonized, disrespected, disregarded, and (attepted to be) discarded by many members of the culture at large. Its not like you see "mainstream" people trying to join in the black church and/or black religious traditions. There are far too many facets of "our" subculture that it would be realistic to expect mainstream folks not to want to participate in. One of the main indicators of their lack of desire to participate is the fact that they do not join D9 orgs en masse. Another is the fact that most often they do not come to the D9 and ask to be taught to step or any other part of D9 tradition and culture. There generally is no expectation that any subculture must contribute to the culture overall in order to survive. It is actually historically the opposite. Thats why your argument makes little sense to me.

What you don't realize is that if anything, there is more inclusiveness between the cultures now more than ever before because the younger generations have been born into a more inclusive society that shares each other's cultures, and thus they become much more acclimated and thus prone to sharing elements of each other's culture, something that can't be said with prior generations (Gen X, Boomers, etc.).

In all fairness, part of the reasons why "mainstream" people aren't joining the NPHC orgs "en masse", is because "we" have strong reservations about voting them in. There's been many on-line discussions on this topic, and I've had my share in in-person discussions on this subject. Granted, this is far from being the only reason, but it is part of the reason. But I've noticed over the past few years there has been a bigger interest in the mainstream on aspects of our culture and their wanting to be involved in it. So I see what you're saying, but a lot of what's been developing has be a slow gradual process over the past 5-10 years, so it could be too subtle for you to notice on a grand scale.

[Rhoyaltempest] wanted to know, quite validly, why people of a specific culture (D9 Greeks and realistically Black people) extend themselves to include others in a culture they seem to have little to no interest in.

Two things: (1). Is that really the case now or has that historically been the case and things are just now taking a noticeable turn? (2). The same could be said for the mainstream extending themselves to us including them in their culture. To imply that this issue is a one-way street sounds really really far-fetched.

We do ourselves a disservice when we think we have a corner on giving everything away to other cultures, and the mainstream is just being fat, selfish, and stingy by not giving anything back.

So yes, I do and have see Rhoyaltempest's point, I just think that her point comes off as somewhat myopic as to whether that is really, truly, and fully the case.