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Originally Posted by ASTalumna06
And MysticCat... I didn't mean to imply that you thought hazing was ok for guys. I completely understand where you're coming from. I can understand the example that you gave earlier, with the Order of the Arrow and Ordeal. I think that things like this can be an excellent test of someone's strength. And there are obviously differences between this, and joining a fraternity. . . .
I can appreciate the idea of having people work together, solve problems, and get out of hard situations as a group. However, I don't think that ridiculous physical requirements and being yelled at constantly will help to build better fraternity (or sorority) members. I'm not implying that you were saying this, MysticCat. I'm just saying it in general.
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I see what you're saying.
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Originally Posted by AGDee
As a Boy Scout parent and an involved volunteer with my GLO, when they showed us the Order of the Arrow video, my first thought was "This is hazing and there's no way my son is going to do this". My ex-husband, who is not Greek, whispered to me "I hope he doesn't want to do this because I am not comfortable with this at all." To date, my son has been invited to membership 3 times and has declined. I haven't said a word to him, but I'm secretly glad. I'm also glad he has no interest in doing the Polar Bear. Somehow, I'm not convinced that *my* almost 13 year old is up to handling the Ordeal or the Polar Bear. He already gets sick after every camp out because he doesn't sleep!
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I'd agree that 13 is probably too young for OA. But I'm sorry you consider it hazing, because I can assure you it is not, not by any reasonable definition of that term. (Sorry if I'm being too blunt.) No way would the BSA approve of it if it were. Like I said, it was a pivotal event in my youth, and there was not a single second of it where I thought I was being hazed then or, looking back on it now, where I would consider anything done to be hazing.
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Originally Posted by msl2008
and for the ppl who say that hazing is against the law, obviously everyone knows that. but lots of things are against the law that people do and the government can't do anything about till it's too late. so let's be realistic here.
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Of course, what the government can do about it after the fact is convict you of a crime. Or, should a hazing victim (or his survivors) bring a civil suit, award lots of money in damages.
Just trying be realistic.