[jon1856]

I pulled the following points/counter-points (sorry CBS/60-Minutes)
out of the later part of the thread because I thought that they were rather interesting.

IMHO, from what I have seen and read in the past few weeks and from the little amount of Videos and audio I "reviewed" over the past few years, believe that there is a major double standard going on year.

From what I have seen and heard not only here but in general life, most people I know truly believe that certain actions, words, movements et al are wrong. Period.

To me, if does not matter who is doing it or saying it.

One could argue that it does not matter if it goes on only between two people or certain small compact group. But this stuff is now main-stream. It is on the major cable shows, it is on major song labels, it is in the public eyes and ears.

And yes, I am well aware that ever so often there are "actions" done to protest it.

But they seem to be once a year rather than in "their face" on a continual fashion.

And it just grows and grows and gowns larger and impacts more and more people. And becomes more and more accepted rather then rejected.
It becomes common place rather then a rarity. People grow up with it, see it and copy it in their actions and words.

I understand the well known marketing statement that "Sex sells".

But just how much sex, violent, improper actions, thoughts et al do we really need to be put into our faces and those of children?

It makes money for all involved.
So, I have to wonder if that is the reason some people may think that it can not be controlled? But is that not what played a part in getting Imus canned?

And one could include in the discussion the ultra-violent, sexist et al video games as well.

I now stand down off of my soap box and jump into my fire-proof suit.

Originally Posted by laylo

While protesting involves anger, I don't think writing, discussing, and teaching involve less. Every time I've participated in these kinds of activities concerning hip hop, it was more intense for me than any issue I've actually protested. And regardless, it can only be called a double standard if those who protested Imus were doing nothing on the hip hop front. But the fact is there isn't anything more they can do because there is no step they can take that would prevent offensive rap from being produced and played.

Originally Posted by shinerbock

No, it can still be a double standard. The steps people chose to take regarding Imus involved protests, threatening boycotts, etc... I don't see decisive action like that on rap music. Sermons and scholarly writings are no doubt important, but I don't see that they represent a similar intensity. I'm not doubting your personal intensity about the issue, but I still don't see the "outrage", if you will, when it comes to rap and other issues.

I think its understandable that people not go protest rap music, there are bigger concerns to address. I think the same applies to Imus, yet it nevertheless consumed some people's lives (and the country) for at least a few days. Again, I don't think the possibility that an effective protest against rap would be unrealistic is the reason for a difference in actions.

Originally Posted by mccoyred

The difference is that in rap/hiphop/etc. the artists are talking about an anonymous 'YOU' whereas in this specific instance, the remarks were directed toward a specific group of named individuals. It is a legitimate moral distinction and supports the rationale taken. While I am not defending misogynist music (I don't listen to, buy or support in any way), there is a difference. I will elaborate more later but I needed to get this said as soon as possible in this thread....

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well that is true, in that he cruelly targeted people who weren't really in the public arena (which what I think the most serious offense was). However, if we're talking about differences, there are a lot of things in rap music that go far beyond the simplicity of Imus's statements. Sometimes they are much more foul and brutal, and on a much larger scale.

I think the difference is that while Imus's comments did immediate damage to a small number of people (you can claim different, but I view the victims as those girls), while rap has done slower but more widespread damage to our society. My take, anyway.

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Not getting into the merits of this, but that is something I've changed my mind about over the past couple of years. I always disliked Sharpton more than Jackson until recently, but Sharpton occasionally makes good points and seems more willing to face his opposition. Granted, I still think he race baits, and he also seems more apt to enter into a conflict quicker than does Jackson. I do find it interesting to listen to him though, especially on programs like Glenn Beck.

Originally Posted by laylo

All I can say about the intensity issue is that I see outrage among Black women everywhere. I don't see dedicating the amount of time, research, energy, and emotion it takes to write books, create art, teach young people, put on magazine campaigns, hold forums, block artists from performing at venues, etc. as less intense than taking a matter of minutes writing a letter to a radio station. It hurts me to hear someone say that all of that work- in which the political is surely personal- is less intense than some short-term hooplah, but I digress.

You're saying you see no decisive action on rap, but what decisive action? What protest could they possibly hold that would produce a similar result to Imus getting fired?

Originally Posted by shinerbock

And note again, I don't want anything to happen. We're merely discussing whether there is a double standard.

I just don't see the anger, I don't see the outrage. I don't see people protesting outside of record studios or demanding a large scale boycott of rap. I'm sure many are concerned with the state of rap music and are taking action. However, I just don't see the "results or else!" attitude that you see with other situations.

Originally Posted by mccoyred

The late Malcolm X used to tell white folks who wanted to join him to work in their own communities and organizations to change the mindset of their community. THAT is the best way that they could help further his human rights causes.

So to you, Shinerbock and your ilk, express your anger and outrage to YOUR community, ie the white folks who OWN the record companies that produce and promote this and those in the WHITE community who buy and support this music. You do your work in your community and we will continue to do the work in ours.

Originally Posted by laylo

We've already established that these ideas are not realistic. So the fact that people aren't taking actions that would obviously be fruitless does not indicate a double standard.