What defines a helicopter parent?
 

With all of the discussion here about helicopter parents, I've been doing some thinking about parenting and where to draw the line. It also doesn't help that I'm packing off my eldest to college in a few short days.

I think all parents have an impulse to help and protect their children. I also think that most parents understand that you have to, from the child's earliest days , step back and let them start to seperate from you.

As an example, toddlers often stumble and fall. They will look at their parents for cues as to whether or not to be upset. I taught myself to say "Bingo!" whenever one of mine fell down, so they quickly learned to brush themselves off and get up again. Had I run with an icepack and band-aid to them every time they fell, they would have taken their cue from me and cried and wailed at every little bump. My rule - no blood, no band-aid.

The problem is when parents don't think about it at all - they automatically run in to make everything better, without giving their kids a chance to solve their problems on their own.

It's easy to be critical of heliparents, and I certainly don't want to let them off the hook. I worry about a generation of adults who aren't used to acting as adults. But I also can acknowledge that it's tough as a parent.

How do you define a helicopter parent? And why do you think we are suddenly seeing so many?

I would say a defining characteristic is a parent who does things for their child that their child could easily do themselves. Not because the child needs them to, sometimes not even because the child wants them to. But because the parent wants to. If the child is capable of handling a matter on their own, they should do so.

I remember many a time when I was a teenager that my life would have been simpler (and lazier?) if my parents had completed a task for me. They never let me off that easy, I always had to handle my own business.

Examples - parents researching colleges and narrowing down the choices/making the choice, researching greek life, calling an employer to arrange an interview, following up with an employer to find out why the child wasn't hired, etc. Some things are ok to do on your own, potentially, if you are really curious. But make the kid do the legwork themselves. If you want to research colleges to know what your kid is getting themselves into, then do it behind the scenes, so you can ask appropriate questions. Don't do all the research and then present the findings so the child doesn't have to it themselves.

(Disclaimer that I was raised to be very independent and always made my own decisions, so in some ways it's hard for me to empathize with the reasons another person wouldn't be capable of making their own decisions.)

I think we are suddenly seening so many HMs on GC since it is now obvious that they will be given a voice here they should not have. It is just like what happened when the AI forum promoted sorority shopping here- it eventually drew a crowd.

I am not a parent yet, but just from my life observations I think helicoptering is basically when a parent progressively resists the need to let a child make independent decisions and learn from mistakes. Such parents like to think they just love their kids and take better care of them than other parents, but that is a way to deny the very selfish and control-freak urge in them that thinks of children almost like pets in a way.

That is the mentality I have observed in friends of mine who had HMs.

I think it gets bad in sorority rush since that is a time when a young lady is expected to do her homework and present herself on her own merits and effort. Naturally an alumna parent can be in the background helping with recs and other tips- but when Mom actually starts making herself a visible presence is when I think a big line is crossed.

It could come in any form- be it coming here to whine or calling up nationals etc.- but the line is crossed, in my opinion, when Mom makes herself a visible presence at a point when she should not be in the picture at all.

Honestly, I think cell phones have a little bit to do with it, at least with college kids. Cell phones certainly aren't to blame for the whole problem, but can be a contributor of it.

Parents and children have become accomostomed to having immediate access with each other at any time of day. It is not uncommon to hear comments like "I talk to my mom/daughter at least 10 times a day." This shortens the cord considerably.

For those of us who were in school with either a line for a dorm phone or a regular phone in our dorm room (that charged long distance rates) calls were much more limited. I think I talked to my parents 1-2 times a week. Thus, I had to be virtually 100% independent at 18, solve my own problems, deal with life's difficulties, and basically just "grow up." I was on my own. It didn't mean I loved my parents less, it just meant that things were my responsiblity now.

I have posted this before, but the story is so appalling it bears repeating... I had a previous co-worker who had a son at a large university. He would call her- at work- upteen times a day, every day. On multiple occaisions he was upset about a grade and would ask her to call his professors to get the grade changed. And yes, she did it.

That is helicoptering. Stepping in and doing things for your child when developmentally they should be learning to do these things for themselves. But.. this is a perfect example that it can work both ways. Children learn that parents will do things for them and come to expect that. Oh the harsh realities when they go job searching!!

Back before that "immediate" parental/child access, the college student would have had no choice but to work out the grade issue themselves.

It is okay to love your child, want what is best for your child, and even be there to support your child. You can even hurt when your child is hurting. But... parents have to be willing to let their children experience disapointment, failure, and even pain. Constant attempts to shelter them from this, repeated efforts to do things for their children when the child should do for themselves, and blaming everyone *but* their child for problems are all symptoms of the FWAP/FWAP.

Great thread, SWTX.

You know, I may just be in a bad mood or something, but I'm really beginning to get sick of these Helicopter Mom threads. From my perspective, many of the moms who are being accused of helicoptering are not really doing so. They have come on to this "open" forum because their kids are rushing and they have questions. In most cases they are encouraged to post what's going on with their daughters, and then when they show the slightest worry or concern, they're accused of helicoptering. There are some who attack at the slightest sign of this - I'll call them Black Hawks, they are perfect fighting machines, and boy howdy, they'll shoot you down at the slightest sign of weakness.

As parents, sometimes we make the right decisions and sometimes we don't. Over a child's lifetime in your home, you basically have 18 years of decision making, hopefully you make more right ones than wrong. As for my own kids, I made worse decisions with the first one - probably helicoptering more than I should because I was a newbie and scared to make a mistake. I learned from him and have become much more standoffish with my other kids to the point that yesterday, after my middle son had moved into his place in Austin, where he hadn't bothered to have the electricity or water turned on (but he DID remember to set up cable - shows where his priorities are) he's on his own. So what happens? He's sitting in the dark with no plumbing with me telling him, "It's your problem, you fix it, but I advise you to use your neighbors toilet for sanitary reasons."

Now, as to my oldest who I "helicoptered", he is a senior in college with a full time job, paying his own rent, utilities, and expenses - he never asks for help or money, he does everything on his own, so I guess my hovering didn't hurt him in the long run.

All the judging could possibly be way off base, and if this forum should be restricted to only those without children or those who only post the "right" responses, then perhaps moderators should block them.

...
 

i definitely agree I think cell phones have a big thing to do with it

srmom - from my perspective, I think that perhaps if we had a better definition of what a helicopter parent is, which this thread should allow, then we might just have fewer instances of people being accused of helicoptering when they in fact are not. I think this thread could be very helpful. :)

There are moms on this board that are definitely not helicopter moms, but it's still hard for some of us who are really independent to appreciate where they are coming from. I think this thread might alleviate some of the stigma of being a mom on GC in general, if it plays out.

Love it!

well said.

I was working on my own response to srmom, but you said it best.

ETA: I also agree that some of the current moms are certainly not helicoptering, but I can also appreciate that long-time GCers have been subjected to those who were, which can make one skeptical of all moms who show up for the first time during recruitment season. Does it make it right? No. But, I can see both sides of the issue.

srmom - I don't think SWTXbelle is accusing anyone in particular of helicoptering - just opening up a dialogue on what the term really means.

(Knock on wood) I've seen far fewer of the helicopter moms posting this year - it seems to mostly be worried parents who need a place to vent and express their worries (so they don't convey them to their child) as their kids go through rush. I don't think that's helicoptering at all. Helicoptering is the mom or dad who comes on here looking for recs for their daughter.

I don't really think of "helicoptering" that way, at all.

When I think of helicoptering, particularly in terms of Greek Chat, I'm reminded of those moms who do things like call individual chapters or the Greek Life office when their daughters get cut. Or the moms who can't be excited for their daughters when they do get a bid because they're still busy sulking over the fact that their daughters got cut from a different chapter. Clearly there is a huge difference between this and sanitary plumbing conditions. Srmom, your examples remind me more of a parent who is being helpful while some of the helimoms we've seen on GC in the past have been just awful examples for their children.

Another example is one I've seen in the dance world. I've danced and cheered my whole life, and when I was helping to coach my old high school team, I was on the receiving end of the bad behavior from helimoms. These women (well...and men, too, since there was one dad who was pretty obnoxious) would be up in arms if their daughter didn't get to be front and center 100% of the time. Of course they did it in the name of wanting what was best for their child, but the obnoxious behavior that they displayed was anything but helpful. Meanwhile, there were the moms who were extremely positively supportive (hosting spaghetti dinners, arranging carpools, always cheering the girls on) and no one thought of these parents as helimoms at all.

My parents are totally helicopter parents, and I knew this way before society created a name for it.

Here's some examples:
-Didn't want me to move out when I was younger, because they were scared that any roomates I had would take advantage of me...or if I lived alone, I would become a target for sexual assault from some perv.
-I recieve texts and/or phone calls from my mother several times a day when I go on road trips, it gets worse at night. She also tried to talk me out of driving on the last road trip, because it was my first time driving over 3 hours from home. Mind you, I'm closer to 30 than 20.
-I often conceal the location of my weekend plans, if they are downtown or near by...because my father would want to drop me off. He believes "the streets" will chew me up and spit me out.
-My mother is a college instructor, her students range anywhere from 18-35, in other words many of her students are my age or close. She sees this as an opportunity for her to pick potential boyfriends and female platonic friends for me. It was cool when I first began undergrad at my own college and didn't know anyone, but it didn't stop after I found friends. I believe she thinks she's a better judge of character or something.

The underlying reason for their behavior is that they believe that I am an innocent naive fragile little flower that needs their protection from the nasty nasty world. It doesn't help that my grandmother was very overprotective of my mother, when she was growing up, in fact it was a lot worse. I think my mother is imitating my grandmother's behavior to a degree. As for my father, he found himself in a lot of trouble when he was my age and a little younger, and he is scared that I'll follow in his footsteps.

I think my folks' concerns are legitimate, but I am grown and I believe I have good enough judegment to keep myself out of most unpleasant situations. I do engage in mild risk-taking behavior, but who doesn't in their 20s? Most people live to tell about it and most of us know our limitations. Life is about taking risks, hell, doing nothing and playing it too safe is taking a risk...because you can miss out on great opportunities.

Oh, it was happening long before cell phones. The helipcopter moms of Boy Scouts in our troop (30 years ago) used to drive my father crazy. In my experience, you can often pick out the helicopter-parents-to-be when the kids are in kindergarten. (See SWTXBelle's falling down example. Or go to a kid's soccer game.)

As a parent, I agree with srmom, at least up to a point. I think there is a big difference, for example, between

(1) the mom or dad who comes to GC with questions to better understand how rush/recruitment works, what's involved, how it's changed since they were in school, etc., so that they have a good point of reference when talking with their children and can be a good parental sounding board if asked and if appropriate; and

(2) the mom or dad who are running the show for the kids and don't wait to be asked or worry about whether they're keeping the kids from making their own decisions and their own mistakes.

The former parents know when to say "you've got to figure this out/take care of this yourself." The latter don't.

This reminded me of a kid I used to babysit for who was top-heavy (had the biggest head in the world and a normal sized body). He would always fall down but never seriously get hurt and he would then look to me to decide if he should be upset or not. I made a point of saying things like "WOW! Wasn't that fun??? Such an adventure!" He would just laugh and carry on until the next time it happened.

I totally see a distinction between helicopter parent and worried parent.

In terms of recruitment, for me, and helicopter parent is one that found all the recs (and beats themselves up if they missed one), filled out all the forms and sent in everything themselves. They are also trying to tell their daughter what groups to go back to no matter what the kid wants.

A worried parent would have helped (but not taken the lead) get recs, reminded daughter to make sure to send everything in on time, and then is a sympathetic ear for the daughter when she is trying to make the decisions on her own. If the parent is greek, they might have tried to explain the system to their daughter.

I don't think helicopter parents are a new thing, I just think it is easier for parents to helicopter now with cell phones and the internet. When I was in college, helicoptering was limited to calling the dorm room phone. In fact my in-laws were total helicopter parents- they even tried once to ground my sister-in-law while she was away at college (it obviously didn't work). They told her she could go to class, the dining hall, and the library but other than that she had to be in her room. They would call the room periodically to make sure she was there, but her roomate would cover for her if she wasn't. :p

Like I said - I'm in a rotten mood - y'all's posts are really all constructive and I just reacted to the title of the thread and not the content of the posts. Mea Culpa and carry on. BTW, I agree with this:

At the same time, there are some kids like Dionysus who recognize that their parents are overprotective (but still love them) and live their lives on their own, and there are others who get bullied by over bearing parents and let it happen.

This is an age old story - think of all the characters in history who have been led down the wrong (or right) path by overbearing parents - heck, Shakespeare plays are full of them! And that was way before cell phones;)

I don't know if my mom would be considered a helicopter mom, but she was a very controlling mother. She didn't do stuff for me. She made me do it myself. But she had her ideas about how I should live my life, and it was like "This is the college you're going to. This is what you're going to major in." As for joining a sorority, my mom didn't get why I was getting involved in student orgs. She's the stereotypical Chinese mom. She didn't understand why networking and developing leadership skills and learning to work in group setting were important. She would get mad that I wasn't spending all my time studying in library.

She kinda acted like she owned us because she gave birth to us. My freshman year of college, my mom was waitressing at a Korean/Japanese restaurant. The owner asked her if I would be available to help bus tables on New Year's Eve. My mom didn't even ask me if it was ok with me. She told the owner "Oh yeah, she'll do it. I'll make her". I was pissed when she told me. I would have been fine with it if she had asked me first. She, of course, got angry that I was "giving her attitude and being a spoiled brat".

I eventually had to cut her out of my life, for my own sanity. She constantly belittled and invalidated my feelings. When at 19 I told her that I was depressed and suicidal and had been since I was 12, she told me that I was ungrateful for everything she gave me and all the sacrifices she made for me. She told me that I had no right to feel what I felt because I hadn't had the rough childhood she had. She told me that it was because I had too much time on my hands...that if I had to work three jobs like her, I wouldn't have time to think my stupid thoughts. Then she told me that if I really felt my life was so awful, maybe I should just go kill myself. And the bullshit thing was that I had always been there for her. Growing up, I had been her confidante. She would tell me how I was her best friend. And looking back, I think it was unfair of her to be confiding in me about how her marriage was falling apart when I was 14. But I was there for her. I was a good listener. I was a shoulder to cry on. And so it hurt so much that she reacted the way she did and that she wasn't there for me when I had been there for her. And it was so painful to see her being there for her boyfriend and being supportive when he was feeling depressed.

She lives less than 20 miles away from me. I haven't seen or talked to her in more than four years, and I have absolutely no desire to do so ever again.

Sorry for all the rambling and ranting, but I do have a point. For me, I woud define a helicopter mom as someone who wants to have control over every aspect of her child's life and who behaves like what she wants for her kids supercedes what her kids want for their own lives and who acts like her kids are just an extension of herself rather than their own separate persons. I feel like they hold on so tight because they're trying to keep their kids. However, all it's going to do is either hamper your child for life or cause you to lose them forever when they finally get the balls to get out of that bad situation.

SOPi that is just tragic! I'd give you a hug if I could. I wouldn't call what happened to you as "helicoptering" that seems more like emotional child abuse:(

I hope you have gained strength and wisdom from your experiences and that you will not let them burden you, but use them to help you go on to live the happiest of lives.

Washington Post chat on how not to be a helicopter parent: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080502165.html

I think that sometimes the kids are as much to blame for it as the parents. They are comfortable with the idea of having their mothers do everything for them and don't want it to change. I had a roommate in college whose mother would drive up once a week to visit to do her laundry and cook her dinner. She would also call her mother and ask her to call her professors to get them to change her grades or to call the housing office and complain when she had problems with another roommate. At our convention last month, someone was discussing statistics and helicopter parents, and said that the majority of incoming college freshmen feel that their parents aren't being involved enough in their lives and want them to be more active. This sort of scares me.

I totally agree with you -- I certainly could have controlled my mother had she dared to embarass me this way!

So, would todays Moms be more over bearing\protective today than say 30-40 years ago?

Is technology really the reason?

Or maybe some of the Moms are trying living a life that they did not have.

I definitely think that technology plays a large role in this. 30-40 years ago when you went to college out of state, long distance calls were limited and expensive so you had to learn how to fend for yourself.

This reminds me of my college roommate. Her mom only came down at the beginning and end of semesters, but her mom did baby her when she was home by cooking for her and doing her laundry. So senior year, she's living in an apartment and not a dorm, and she didn't know that jarred pasta sauce needed to be put in the refridgerator after opening. She had been keeping her opened jar of pasta sauce in the cupboard. She also must've thought that dishes magically did themselves, because she never washed dishes or silverware all year.

LOL. Long distance calls weren't that "limited" 30 or 40 years ago. Even if more expensive than now, they were pretty easy to make -- people did it all the time. (I'm not even sure they were more expensive than now -- back then, we didn't have cell-phone service to pay for.)

What's different is that if you weren't where the phone was, no call. Cellphones make constant helicoptering easier, but they're not the reason for it.

As for going to college out of state, 30 or 40 years ago, most heli-parents wouldn't have allowed that -- the kid would likely be within a 2-hour drive.

That sounds like my two sons.

I always felt I didn't do enough "healthy rebelling" when I was a teenager (probably because I was an only child and you're so dependent on your parents' approval). But some of these kids today baffle me. It's one of two extremes - either they're doing everything behind their parents' backs, or nothing. It reminds me of the part in "Say Anything" where Ione Skye told her dad she lost her virginity - I can't even watch it, I get so squicked out.

As far as that goes, there are people who've been raised with maids, etc that probably would be the same way.

I don't know, I think there's a difference between doing laundry, cooking etc for your kids - babying them - and being a helicopter parent. Cooking your kid a meal is one thing, calling your kid when they're at the mall and asking where they're going to eat/telling them where to eat is another.

Exactly.

And this also gets to SWTX's original question as to where do we draw the line.

The first time I heard the phrase helicopter parent was on a news segment. They profiled a woman who came down once a week to her son's campus and did his laundry, cleaned his room and made dinners for a week so that he wouldn't starve until the next visit. That seems a bit excessive.

The mothers on GC who have come looking for support or even just answers haven't particularly struck me as overbearing. Now some of them did get hostile to our younger GCers when they thought they were being insulted and that was wrong of them for being rude. However, these mothers making an idle threat to drop alumna support to their GLO is not an unusual reaction. I know plenty parents of college applicants who will stop financially supporting their alma maters because their kiddos didn't get accepted.
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In terms of the majority of the mothers who are upset, most of them are from the south. You've read it from both male and female members that certain towns seem to go XYZ or AAA at certain schools. I personally can't relate going down for Bid Day but no one in my family attended college in the Deep South. The mothers visiting to share in the excitement or to present a consoling hug is hardly a new phenomenon at some of those big Southern schools. If that had been a tradition at my daughter's school, I would have been there in a heartbeat. For that matter even if it wasn't a tradition but she had had an unsuccessful recruitment for whatever reason and she wanted me there, I would have also visited.

The southern girls in my undergraduate chapter told us, but I really didn't understand how much Greek Life permeated certain segments of Southern life much more deeply than in the north until I actually lived in the South. From seeing the marriage notices including Greek affiliation to outright questions of what you pledged (the assumption being that you were a member of a NPC group if you went to college), it was an eye-awakening experience.

The fraternity side of helicopter moms...

The year I did Journey of Hope there was a kid on the South Team whose parents decided to tag along for about a week and a half. Basically they followed the route and would make arrangements to stay in whatever town we happened to be lodging in. Now keep in mind it is completely normal for parents to visit during the trip for one or two days. But this usually happens about a month into the trip when the team member is traveling through their home state. I barely saw the Dad I’m not sure what he was doing to fill his days but the Mom made her presence known. She would fix her son’s plate at lunch, fill his water bottle etc. She even bought the team extra food because she didn’t think we were eating enough. (That was actually nice)

So some time went by and the heli-parents went home. He was finally on his own. We were in Nevada for two days staying in a High School gymnasium when he finally decided to say more then two words to me.

Heli-Kid: Hey are you going on a laundry run?
Me: Yeah were all meeting by the payphones out front in twenty minutes.
Heli-Kid: Oh Ok.

So twenty minutes comes and goes; everyone meets by the payphones, Heli-Kid is a no show. We have to clown car the van so I don’t even think twice about leaving him behind. About an hour later as I’m waiting for my clothes to dry my cell phone rings…

Me: Hello
Heli-Kid: Hey it’s me Heli-Kid
Me: Oh hey man what’s up?
Heli-Kid: Have yall left for the laundry mat yet?
Me: Yeah were just finishing up now.
Heli-Kid: Why didn’t you wake me up so I could go?
Me: I’m not your mom.
--click--

/edit: So I’m not sure if my story actually fits in this thread but I always think about that kid when the issue of helicopter parents comes up. I guess I’ve never had to deal with a helicopter parent directly; just the products of their parenting.

Well, I enjoy it when parents come on GC seeking info and sharing their feelings about their children and what they are going through. But I draw the line when parents start referring to what is happening to their child as if it were happening to them. For instance last year there was a mom who referred to her daughters rush as 'our rush' and repeatedly used the term 'we' and 'I' when she should have been using 'she' and 'her'.
Helicopter Mom -v- Regular Mom
A Helicopter Mom:

• Decides her daughter should rush

• Gets Recs for her

• Picks out the outfits

• Is present during rush to make sure daughters hair and makeup are fresh (yes, it happened...not at Auburn)

• Is more upset by who cut daughter/son than by who wants them

• Says critical things trying to analyze why cuts happened

• Compares her daughter/son to other young adults
• Is competitive with other young adults for the sake of their child.

A Regular Mom:

• Supports childs decision to rush or not

• Passes on leads for recs to her child

• Advises on outfits if asked

• Is a sounding board during rush, but not actually present

• Tries to get child to see the bright side when facing cuts.

• Never gives the child the impression that the cuts were the result of something they did/did not do

• Knows that every child is unique and will have unique experiences in rush and in life
• Allows their child to have disappointments, but is there to support them when they do.

Having said that....
I love cooking for and doing laundry for my daughter when she comes home, I can't help it!:) I don't think this makes me a helicopter parent though because she does her own laundry 99% of the time!

I guess they do not yet realize that little precious may or not be GLO material even though the kinder is the apple of their eye!

They look at them as their little angel and can do no wrong.

If god forbid some of you have kids would you be any different?:rolleyes:


Just some S & Gs!

Oh, I am trying very carefully to type and spell for the benefit of the Spelling Kings and Queens!:rolleyes:

TPU!:)

I agree.

Having Helimoms & dads are a big part of millennials' lives and how they were raised.

In t-ball, there were no "winners or losers".. everyone got participation trophies instead. The kids grew up so used to getting everything that all of a sudden when they are turned loose into the real world there are parents demanding to know why their precious top notch daughter got cut, or why their smart son didn't get the job he wanted.

Sorry to say, but that's life.

As a parent you don't want to see your kiddos hurt, but it's NOT your job to whine about it. It's your job to be there to support the kids going through their rough patch.

I think the line is cross like EE-BO said when the parent isn't just watching from the sidelines anymore. They're front and center - giving us the play by play of their stellar daughter/son's rush.

I think if those young men & women really wanted their story posted on the internet, they should be perfectly capable to post it themselves. They should also be perfectly capable to ask the questions they have ON THEIR OWN.

My parents did not take part in me looking at colleges. They told me to figure out which ones I was interested in and if I wanted to we'd go visit them. My mom didn't ask random questions on internet chat boards about recs or sororities or rush or anything. I told them I was interested in joining a sorority. My mom said "Great - tell us how that goes for you". My parents also did not take part in my job hunt after I graduated. Why? Because I am independent and capable of doing all those things for myself.

Posting under a different name at home...

So, in other words - Get off the forum? You're not welcome, we don't want you here? You're a moderator - ban us!

Sometimes the parents are here because they are nervous and want a place to vent, then WE encourge them to share (and then some relish attacking them for it). I admit that last year there were some unattractive parents who, for whatever reason, be it anger, spite, revenge, what have you, posted nasty things after their kids were cut or didn't have a good rush (in their opinion). But, do you really want all the parents (even when we are active Greek women or men alumni) to just go away?

My son wouldn't come on this site if his life depended upon it;) But, he didn't mind when I posted (post recruitment) his story, and neither did the people who enjoyed reading it and encouraged me to post - and perhaps, in some way, the story of his recruitment can help others who might be thinking of rushing a fraternity which is COMPLETELY different than rushing a sorority.

I came on the site when my son was a senior (hence Srmom) to get information because it had been MANY moons since both my husband and I were involved in the Greek system. My son had expressed an interest, was being "rushed", although he didn't realize it at the time because we did NOT make it a deal in our house, he just thought nice guys were inviting him to go to stuff:rolleyes:. By getting information on this site (and from EE-BO for one) it helped with the process. I understood what was going on and felt better about what he was going through and where he ended up (special circumstances in that he pledged a fraternity that is not recognized by IFC - EE BO, in particular, shed light on that situation).

So, this is a great website - full of information, full of fun interaction, full of controvery and spirited debate - why do you have a problem with moms/dads who come here to be a part of it????

Like I said, there were a few parents last year who went over the bounds of - shall I say - decorum, in terms of their reactions to their kiddos rushes. But, it hasn't denegrated to that at this point yet this year, so no broad strokes of generalization. Not all folks of the parental sort are a bad sort.

I enjoy the recruitment stories. I would hate to see them disappear because of fear of posting.

Didn't we have this discussion or one very similar to it last summer? I shall attempt to find the thread.

ETA: Found it!

I'm not sure I've heard anyone say they want to get rid of all parents on GC. Sure, some people have less tolerance for parents sharing their kid's stories than others, but such is message board life. I have little tolerance for a lot of stuff. I'm sure there are people who have little tolerance for my relatively dispassionate posts. ;) I sincerely doubt everyone will ever come to a consensus, but what I'm reading above is that the majority of posters who have replied have little problem with parents who are merely talking about their kids, but not trying to control their kids. Seems like the effort to control and smother are the more defining characteristics. And yes, people on GC have a real distaste for parents venting here. For good or ill, coming on this site and complaining about your kid's rush results is a recipe for disaster.

Would I be absolutely mortified if my parents were talking about my personal life on a message board? Yes. Do I cringe every time I see a parent doing such? A little. But, if their kids know they are sharing online and don't have a problem with it, then neither do it. I don't think it's right for a parent to be dishing about their kids when the kids are unaware of it, but that doesn't mean my opinion should dictate others' actions.

If we all left the site when someone didn't care for us, or if being disliked was a bannable offense, this would be a pretty dead board.

I believe the GC is very supportive of both pnms and their parents for the most part. It may well be that a few rotten apples have spoiled the whole bunch for some; however, it seems to me that we are very supportive of those going through the process but 1.) obviously when GLOs and their members are insulted by these same posters they react negatively and 2.) there is a belief that recruitment should be driven by the pnm, not the parent.
I think you can see some great examples of support of parents in many current threads. I know that I really enjoy it when I feel I can offer some information or advice that might really help a pnm. I am overjoyed to hear of a successful recruitment.
As I said in my original post, it's a tough row to hoe. I am always having to step back and ask myself if an action I am contemplating doing would be better done by my daughter. I think that it may be that heliparents aren't that introspective - they never question whether it would be better for their child to do it his/herself.
I saw many examples of heliparents while teaching at a private high school, although there the goal was to get into a competitive, high status college. One reason I home schooled my daughter after 5 years in this atmosphere (at which she excelled, btw) was because I did not want her to become a sullen grade-grubber, looking on learning as a means to an end instead of something of value just in and of itself. I would dearly love for her to join a sorority - but it's her life. It kills me sometimes to bite my tongue, but bite it I do.
It's very painful to see your child in pain at any age. I remember standing outside the ER door as my eldest had a spinal tap at the age of 6 months - and last year questioning what I had been thinking in allowing her to have her jaw surgery as they pushed her out of the or, hooked up to a morphine drip, swollen and unable to speak. But, you do what you have to do. When she ( or her sister, or brothers) is sad, or upset, I would give anything to keep that pain away from her, but I know she has to learn to deal with the negative emotions as well as the positive.
This summer my 18 year old went with her best friend to Oklahoma, a rock festival in Oklahoma. I didn't call her once, although she was kind enough to let me know when they arrived, and check in periodically. I had to slap my hand from making that call! But I've had 18 years to help her prepare for her life - so next Thursday it's off to college. I'll get her stuff in the dorm room, make the 3 hour trip home, and probably cry. A lot. And when I get a call from her about some boy who broke her heart, or a professor who seems to be picking on her, I will resist the urge to say "Where does he live? Can I kill him for you?" I'm not saying the thought won't cross my mind, but I know not to articulate it or act on it.
I really do sympathize with parents who are struggling to let go - but it's important that they do it.

But no one's been cut out or dropped out of recruitment yet or matched to the "wrong" group.

That said, I don't think that every mom interested in how her daughter is doing during recruitment is a helicopter mom.

But here's the thing that I think parents over thirty should ask themselves: can you imagine your own parents doing the stuff that you are about to do. Unless you had especially neglectful parents, if the answer to the question is no, you are probably stepping into helicopter land.

I think parents tell themselves that life has changed in some profound way to justify doing things for their kids that parents didn't need to do in previous generations, and the truth is that no such change has really taken place. The world has always been dangerous and somewhat hostile. Schools have always had policies that didn't necessarily result in kids getting what they wanted. Desirable classes, clubs and activities have always excluded some worthy kids. It's not normal to think that you need to intervene to change the world to get your kid what your kid or you think your kid wants right then.

Simply because we have technology today that makes doing more for your kid easier doesn't mean that you should do it.

(And I'll say that I don't think getting recs for your daughter is new or helicopter-y really. I think recs have always been a game played with parental connection as much as personal connection to the girl. Now, contacting the people who do actually know your daughter (like teachers) rather than contacting people who primarily know you (like people you knew in college) is helicoptering because that's something your daughter should do.)

I also think a standard for helicoptering that would be very hard to recognize in one's self but that tends to be more transparent to other people is the motivation for the parental action. Are you doing stuff for your kid because you have no life and accomplishment of your own at present? At the point you are doing stuff for your kid because you live through your kid, you've got a problem. I'm going to add, although I want to make really clear that I'm not calling anyone on GreekChat out, that I think the spouses who stay at home but who are uprooted by their spouses career frequently are most at risk for this if they don't watch themselves. It's really easy in a new community if you don't work to let setting up your kid's life take over. And once everything you do is about the kid, the lines of healthy behavior are harder to see.

Just a thought - do you think smaller family size and fertility issues might be behind the helicopter phenomena?

Of course larger families cherish and love every child - but from a logistical standpoint, it would be far more difficult to helicopter 3 or more than it would be to do it to 1 or 2. Also, I think larger families require a higher level of child participation in the running of the household in most cases - that much laundry means the children learn early to do it, for example. (ETA- and of course, there are large families that helicopter, and singleton families that are not helicoptering - I'm making a general statement)

I bring up the fertility issue because I can see how going through all the pain, stress and economic issues to have a child might skew your thinking. The same thing with adoption - the process itself is so stressful that it might have an effect.