Gays in fraternites (pt. 2)
 

I know this has been discussed before, but I wanted to hear how people felt about gays in fraternities in 2008? I read a lot of the homophobic remarks by some user on other pages and was quite shocked. I kinda expected people to be homophobic, but think its funny that a lot of the guys think that they are superior to gays in some way. I myself am gay, but don't particularly like the stereotype or anything that is portrayed in the media about gays. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that people shouldn't be ashamed of their sexuality, or be made to feel uncomfortable or alienated because of it. Obviously if the dude doesn't fit in with the fraternity because he has different ideals is a different thing, but that is a separate thing from being homosexual.

The only reason a guy should be afraid if another man were to make a pass at him, which is normal if you're gay, is if that guy is unable to clarify that he is straight for some reason, and is afraid he may give into sexual urges. I do understand people being uncomfortable about certain things about gay life, but this whole elitist attitude thing is stupid. Wake up people!

James

Nobody needs to wake up.

Some people highly object to homosexuality and don't want anything to do with it. Some are accepting. Some aren't. Some find it highly immoral. Some don't.

We don't have gays in our fraternity. It's not because we hate gays. They're just different than us. When rushing we seek out young men who have similar interests, goals, and morals as we do; homosexuality doesn't fall in that scope.

I know plenty of gay people, they're nice to me and I am nice to them in return. That said, I'm not friends with any of them, mostly for the same reasons I wouldn't rush any of them.

That's what a lot of men in elite southern fraternities think. Emphasis on think. You may be surprised what you find out after graduation.

Speaking from experience here.

I graduated a while ago and don't really have too much knowledge about gays in fraternaties, but I just wanted to make a comment.

I volunteer with the teen program at my local Library. there is this one guy who comes from a very conservative christian family, I know them and in general like the parents and sibling of this guy but dislike their hatred for homosexuals. This guy who is 16 will treat the 2 guys that he knows are gay like crap. But there are 2 guys who are gay (the teens seem to tell me all their personal issues) that this guys treats like everyone else, ie normal, friendly, ect. I have repeatedly talked to him about his behavior because the teen program should be a place where people feel comfortable and I have explained that he is free to think whatever he likes, but to just ignore the 2 gay guys. I mean, not go out of his way to be mean or rude to them and that he in no way has to be friend with them but treating them like human beings. the big joke in my opinion is that the 2 guys that are gay that have not come out of the closet to him he is good friends with and is really nice too. I have tried to explain his behavior without giving away the 2 "closeted" guys identity. I am sorry, but I just don't understand this behavior from anyone.

If you think that being gay is immoral of wrong or something thats fine, but really it does not mean that you should treat some one like crap because of it, especially since you might not even know what is really going on in someones personal life.

OK
 

Well, its kind of ridiculous! You won't find me kissing anyone's feet to get into a fraternity. I object to heterosexuality, its immoral and not in the scope of what I find acceptable in my little cliques! Oh please, someone's sexuality is their business. Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they don't have the same interests as you do. Stuck up, egotistical idiots!

Thanks Couggirl
 

People need to wake up. I will NEVER join a fraternity! The word sounds gay in its self anyway, a bunch of dudes doing a whole lot of male bonding... hmmmmm!

Then James, why, may I ask, are you posting here? We have people on this site that are heterosexual, homosexual, etc. Some are outspoken and some are not. But their common focus is that they are members or potential members of a variety of Greek organizations. If you have no intention of being considered for a fraternity, then why are you here?

one of my brothers is openly gay. its not a big deal. the only real problem is that nobody likes his movie selections on porn n' chicken night.

look, if a fraternity doesn't accept you because of who you are, then why would you want to make them your brothers.

also, why come on a greek message board asking to hear people's opinions, then go around insulting not only the people, but the entire greek system, when you hear answers you don't like.

Interests that include joining fraternities...? And let's try to keep the name calling to a minimum, thanks.
...evidently not. Your comments lack any real argumentative logic and sound instead more like sour grapes. If the word 'fraternity' sounds gay, then why would a gay man describe it with that kind of negative connotation? You'd think you'd want to join in that case. The word 'fraternity' shares the same etymology as 'brother' and 'kinsman' and is suggestive of a family, which is in a sense one of the functions our organizations serve.
You may find you get a better response from people by understanding their perspective and making an effort to have a rational discussion. This is a skill that fraternity and sorority members learn early.

One of my pledge brothers came out after graduation. It's changed absolutely nothing - except perhaps that's he probably more fun to be around now simply because he's happier in general. One of my little brother's roommates (from freshman year) came out to his pledge class during Initiation week, and if anything, they're pledge class became more closely-knit because of it while they hid it from the upper classmen. Now he's openly gay, and very few people have a problem with it.

It should be noted that neither of these guys acts stereotypically gay (even though it really wasn't a surprise when my pledge brother came out - he was one of those guys that could have gone either way and no one would have batted an eye). They're not effeminate, they don't have a lisp, and while they may dress slightly better than everyone else, they're still in line with the mainstream fashion as you'd find it in Nebraska.

Would my chapter rush a stereotypical gay guy? With one openly gay brother in the active chapter - probably more likely than it was before, but I have to agree that how a person "fits in" matters as someone said before, and I don't see many stereotypical gay guys fitting in well enough to get a bid. But if they did, I don't think it would be an issue.

Finally to say that homosexuals can't have the same interests and goals as heterosexuals is RIDICULOUSLY ignorant.

Well
 

I apologize for offending anyone. The reasons that I posted this is because of the amount of people who say things like "fraternities are no place for gays."
Its up to people how they generally feel about a certain subject I agree, and I believe people should keep their sexuality private. I am pretty certain their have been romantic exchanges or whatever between same-sex members of a fraternity, but they probably keep it secret. I would probably be one of these people. Not that I want to join a fraternity at all or for this reason i.e. because I think fraternity guys are hot. I respect people's decisions.

James

Again - if you have no interest in joining a fraternity and no interest in fraternity life, then why are you here?

Not only did two of my Brothers come out after graduation (and both prior to and after-wards were part of the Chapter), a third had a sex change operation.

And IIRC the studies and reports correctly, something like between 3-10% of all people are gay. Something to think about next time you are in a room, bar, club et al with 99 other people.

haha

None of our organizations' screening processes reach that far.

Do you need a hug?

I am not sure why the OP was thinking me because I told me story in response to this post.

I was trying to make the point that you can think some one is something (in this case straigt) and be totally wrong. And if you treat people differntly because they are, in this case gay, you are being a totaly jerk because you might not know who is gay and who isn't and by treating people one way because you know they are, in this case, gay then you are a hypocrite and should not go around saying how you are not going to be friends with some one who is gay, because you might not even know.

You can do a search. I think I said basically the same thing on here a few years ago. I figured my chapter would never have gays in it for basically the same reasons you espoused here.

I was wrong.

In fact, one of my fellow founders recently came out. It's hard to see it from where you are right now, but give it 10 years. The chances of your having homosexuals in your chapter [closeted] are better than you think. One of our actives even came out recently. I can't say I have a problem with it. He and the above-mentioned alumnus are real credits to my chapter. I'm proud to call them brothers.

I really don't see a problem with having gay guys in a chapter as long as they fit in. Emphasis on that last part.

Would we extend a bid to a flamboyant homosexual with pink hair and a rainbow t-shirt? No, because he wouldn't fit in with our chapter.

However, if a young man has things in common with our chapter, has something to offer to the Fraternity, and doesn't let his homosexuality define who he is as a person, then I don't see why anyone would deny him a bid.

We have an openly gay brother in my chapter. Granted, he isn't flamboyant and doesn't let his homosexuality define who he is-- many people are surprised when they find out he's gay. And although he might get teased about it sometimes (but honestly, everyone in my chapter gets teased about SOMETHING), at the end of the day we love him just as much as we love any other brother.

In fact, he was diagnosed with cancer recently. He went out of the country to get treated and came back tonight for a brotherhood event, and when everyone saw him we all went up to him, hugged him, and told him how we had missed him. He's an awesome brother and has given a lot to our fraternity.

Sorry to have gotten sidetracked, but what I'm basically saying is the following: if a guy fits in with the chapter, gets along well with the actives, has something to offer, and wants to be a part of the Fraternity (whether he's straight or gay) then it shouldn't be a problem.

Not really.

Homophobia is much more harmful than thinking that Greeks are idiots.

I view this situation in regards to membership selection very similar to religious differences. My GLO was founded on Christian principles way back when. But we do not discriminate against someone who is not a Christian. Actually we don't even bother to ask. Our selection is based solely on the character, interests, values and personality that a person has. If they are a good fit, then we want them as a member. It doesn't matter if they are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, etc. I believe the same should apply to sexual orientation.

LOL!

i wouldn't vote a gay dude into my fraternity.

I find it rather amusing of some of the posts here.

I cannot remember the title of a book sent to me by a Brother of LXA who sent it to me as I passed it along to a fellow Brother to read.

It is stories of gays in many GLOs not just one or two but many more.

I have what I consider several good friends and Brothers not only my chapter but others who have been important members of our chapters and our alumni members.

You may not know if there are gays or not, so do not speak out of turn unless you know them or who they are and how they feel.

They are still fine people who love the same ideals and principles as you beleive in within your own organizations.

Cosign.

Probably Out on Fraternity Row.

Listen. You came in and started the thread jackass.

Nobody is acting like an egotistical idiot. My response to you was perfectly rational as was Elephant Walks. Don't ask a question like that out in the open and then bitch about people's responses.

I bsically agree with everything you just said. Someone's sexuality shouldn't define them, and I agree that a flamboyant gay man would probably not fit into a fraternity simply for the fact that the brothers would have little in common.

For the sake of discussion, I have to disagree with several of you.

To me, the worst part about being gay isn't the whole taking it up the butt thing (which I find pretty terrible in itself- exit only!). It's the fact that I find it so immoral and gays don't. What else do they find acceptable that I believe is completely appalling?
I would struggle to overcome their general viewpoints in order to be their friend.

Maybe you should just mind your own business about people's sex lives then.

Okay, I don't agree with the guys who have made anti-gay remarks, but why did you ask this question? You "wanted to hear how people felt about gays in fraternities", but it sounds like you only want to hear from people who agree with you.

Some people have a problem with it, some don't. Hate to tell you, but you typing on a message board is not going to change the minds of some people. They don't agree with you. Grow up and move on. It's life.

Stop acting like a butt hurt wimp and get out of here. You asked the question....you're getting answers.

Deal with it.

Personally, if we rushed somebody and he hid from us the fact that they were gay, I would be pretty pissed. Personally I think a bunch of men in a fraternity house environment have a right to know. Some are highly offended of homosexuality and would have high moral objections to living with one. That's just the way it is sport.

Well
 

I am offended you're such a cock! So, would you tell me that you banged your mother last night if I was in your fraternity, or that you licked your dog's nuts?

And you lose.

I can't tell if this is real or not.

But anyway, a couple of points:

1) Someone mentioned that you may get out in the real world and find that you do share interests with gay people. Yeah, I suspect that is true. However, being gay is a pretty big deal in that it impacts how you live your life, and often your ideology. It is similar to heritage or religion or any other aspect of life that touches on a lot of things. So yeah, there is probably a dude out there somewhere almost exactly like me, but gay. However, most aren't, and they're the exception rather than the rule. My fraternity is mostly Christian southern guys. I don't hate gay people, but most people wouldn't condone that lifestyle either. So the better question is, why are you so concerned with getting involved in something where you'd obviously feel out of place?

2) A fraternity is not a "we accept everyone" organization. I could give a damn if my fraternity reflects the exact diversity of my campus or city or state or the US. I simply don't care. I didn't join it to be a part of a microcosm of society, I joined it to be around people who share common interests and values. I didn't join it to be exposed to a range of differing viewpoints, I joined it because I get along with the people and considering I spent a ton of time around them, it was a great thing that we agreed on a lot.

^^^ Well said.

.....and I'm offended that you're such a whiny, cry baby homosexual. What gives?

Nice attempt at trying to spin that around on me. Unfortunately I'm going to have to chalk that up as a loss. Sorry to rain on your parade, but I have never had sex with my mother, nor have I let a dog "lick my nuts." The thought of both of those is both disgusting and heinous.

If you're gonna pull this kind of shit, you better step you're game up a little bit Sally.