When the novelty wears off...
 

I've been a member of my fraternity for two years now. I enjoyed pledging (surprisingly) and had a good time my second semester. But now the novelty is wearing off, and all the stupid stuff during chapter is really wearing on me.

I'm down south, where tiers rule the greek systems. We have always been a very strong house, but this semester, we've broken into the top of the top and pushed out another chapter.
Since the last couple semesters- we've been teetering on the edge and struggling to break down the tradition- it seems that many of my brothers have the same thought processes as sorority girls. During rush, about our social schedule, about brothers' girlfriends. It's disgusting and embarassing. Seriously, we were turning away rushees based on looks and clothing. Some of my favorites were shunned for visiting lower tiered chapters. Everyone seems to think that we're such badasses, and even though we are (sorry), I don't appreciate that attitude. Out of control is the only phrase that comes to mind.

I usually don't enjoy any sort of emotional discussion, but this is really serious to me. Has anyone ever experienced something similar? Sometimes I just feel like my goals are different from the vast majority of my chapter now. Any thoughts?

Also, I know how crazy some of you GreekChatters are, so I'll just fess up and say, 'yes', this is a sockpuppet name, and 'no', I will not tell any of you who I am.

Sock-puppet or no, I'll answer your question just the same.

If the issue was that some rushees "were shunned for visiting lower tiered chapter", and you feel they are worthy of a bid, then it is YOUR responsibility to make the chapter aware of their worth.

I mentioned that I thought my goals and outlooks were becoming more different from the chapters (mine haven't changed).
In a group of 130+, it's very difficult to change opinions. Sure I could win over a decent number, but for the most part, people respect the majority.

Then with all due respect, your brother's "views" will - and should be - "best" for the chapter (as a whole).

Having said this doesn't mean you should not try to impress on your brothers your view point. In many situations, they (brothers/sisters) simply do not know there is a difference in opinion.

try looking back on your fraternity's values and see if the the current attitude and actions are promoting them. you should make it known if the principles are not being upheld. even being a top house, everyone needs to be reminded of the ideals of the fraternity. alot of chapters who are top tier get shut down from not being values-based.

Evan Williams.............Jack Daniel's cheaper and nastier cousin. Nice display name.

Crappy situation. If I were you I'd just keep up resistance until you graduate, don't compromise your principles and don't surrender by going "inactive" or "early alum". It drives me nuts when I see a brother resign from an office or stop putting in effort when things don't go in his way (whether or not he's right!)

I disagree. Especially when it comes to being superficial sometimes a kind of "mob mentality" takes over. It's up to the clear-headed ones to knock some sense into people.

To the OP, I think it's great that you're letting your thoughts on the matter be known. Keep doing that. Stand your ground and there's got to be some other brothers who feel the same way and will respect your standards. You might be able to build a power-base from there.

If not, at least you know which brothers share your values. You might not be able to turn the chapter around (who knows?) but you'll know who to hang out with.

Good luck!

Your chapter is suffering from success! When you work to improve the status of your chapter in order to get the guys that only want to go to top tier groups, then those guys will only want top tier guys. It's a nasty reality that people who are satisfied with their membership but not their tier don't think about when they dream of bigger things. Often, this means that you create a group that wouldn't pledge you again if you went through rush. It's very difficult to find a happy medium in that situation.

It can also alienate the hell out of your alumni. Every alum wants to see their chapter succeed, but not at the expense of the things they loved about it most - and not if they feel hella uncomfortable when they come back to visit because they know the actives are thinking "I can't believe SHE ever got a bid from US."

I agree w/ Kyle & Leslie Anne - stand your ground and say that if you got to be top tier based on looks and clothes, you can become bottom tier just as quickly.

I completely agree with this. We didn't have a tier system at my school that was put into place, but some were just more popular (maybe this is a natural tier system....) than others. My organization enjoyed popularity for many many years (about 70 or so), and in the late 1990's declined due to resurgence of other org's and some other factors. When we started to create a name for ourselves, and became more popular, our most recent alumni were the ones that "let the sorority go" when it wasn't all their fault, and they are great girls (women lol). Many of our actives turned their noses up at our alumni, and it was detrimental, because we didn't have the support we needed down the road (which I had warned them about).

My point is, along with what everyone else said, I also suggest that you stand your ground, and eventually, you'll find brother's that share your views, and stay with them. It is frustrating, but giving up doesn't do any good either (not that you would, but it's tempting, I know)
good luck.

TSteven,
I should have been more clear. I do make my views known. I think it would be fair to say that I vote with about 25% of the chapter on most issues. The other 75% are craving success in every possible scenario and act like tools sometimes when they try and "do what's best for the chapter."
EX: raising dues from $1400 to $1600 - a semester! As though we're not above campus average anyway.
I should also note that I'm not bitter at all- just disappointed with the cutthroat changes that are taking place.

Haha, I was hoping someone would be stalking "me" on Google like they do the sorority rushees.
I'd like to reinforce the idea that there is much more good than bad, so I won't be going inactive.

That's exactly the right phrase!

BINGO. Our recent alumni never come around anymore. I'd like to think that I'd get a bid if I rushed now, but who knows.

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far! Great advice!

This is a good thread and it shows how things work in some Greek systems- including where I went to school.

Every fraternity with a solid core of brothers that is financially solvent is a perfectly fine chapter that is the right "home" for somebody.

But that is completely separate from being in the top tier socially in a large Greek system at a school where Greek life is an important part of one's social path.

I think this matters a lot more in the South- hence the frequent reference to "Southern"
greek systems (of which I am a product myself), but the real core issue is one of whether being Greek at a particular school has a lot of overlap with one's personal social status and future professional connections.

Being a top tier chapter is expensive. I know $1,600 a semester in dues sounds high to you- but mine were $2,500 ten years ago, and I lived in the house! (People not living in the house paid even more.)

On the matters of rush, sure how people dress seems superficial- but it is not entirely so. How a person dresses says a lot about where they came from, what is important to them, and how much money they have.

Even at your old dues rate of $1,400 a semester, it is important to know that the guys you pledge are going to be able to pay those dues for 4 years. What car they drive and what their parents do for a living is also important when considering these factors.

It is not just the dues after all. Formals alone were $500+ events for actives when I was around between tuxedo rentals, dinner out etc.

Being a top tier chapter means you need to have members who can afford to spend several thousand dollars a year on social events and dues, and not miss the money.

And if there are no shortage of rushees who meet that criteria, then you have to be selective using financial means as a basic qualification.

Let me ask you something, in the last 2 years has your chapter rushed most of its newer members from a small number of high schools? This is usually how this kind of thing gets started- not just your specific situation but any situation where the general character of a chapter begins to make a fundamental shift.

Whether public or private, each individual high school sending lots of kids to college is going to have a predominance of students at a certain financial level and with a general social scene.

If a fraternity gets to where most of its members come from just a handful of similar high schools (which is very common at top tier southern chapters), then those attitudes can dominate the tone of the chapter.

This happens especially in higher social tiers because people at that level tend to remain within their own inner circle for life. Not everyone does- but it is certainly a "home base" comfort zone. And so in this case a fraternity becomes one more step in a pretty set path in life socially as opposed to being a new experience in a more diverse environment.

One is not better or worse than the other, but there it is.

PS- going back to the thread of your title, is it possible that maybe you are just tiring a bit of everything you see? In other words, was this same rush approach already happening to a certain extent when you joined?

There is nothing wrong with getting a bit tired of the whole "Greek" thing in your junior and senior years. In fact, I think that is a good sign that you are growing up.

While what someone wears or drives matters when rushing in a huge way, in the real world this is not how you will choose your employees or professional associates (at least not if you want to be successful and respected)- so it is a good thing to realize that the whole rush process matters at that time in life, but is not a good way to go about life in general.

I'm on the same page as you, EE.
The problem I have with a dues increase is that we are losing out on many quality guys because of finances. I see your point because you are right. There are plenty of guys to choose from even after we jack the prices up.
And I agree that dressing appropriately is very important. Sure, I rock the sperrys and polos- but only because that's what I grew up on. Not everyone did, and again, sometimes we are missing out because someone wore an Izod.

As far as the high school thing goes- no. We're not recruiting heavily from the same schools.
BUT, we are bringing in more from the same bigger cities and less from the small towns. Maybe that has something to do with it...

This really puts things into perspective. I think you've hit the nail on the head. Thanks!

I hope the dues increase is not creating hardships for guys already in the chapter. That would be a bad thing.

In terms of missing out on somebody because of the cost, I personally think that is the hardest thing about doing rush. It sucks, but the only solace I can offer is to point out how bad the alternative is.

My GLO does not let a chapter put people on alumni status before graduation because they cannot afford the fraternity. We do have a hardship option, but it is hard to get a waiver like that and it is temporary in nature only. So for us, if someone can't pay dues anymore and leaves, we have two choices. Either the chapter continues to pay the national part of his dues until graduation, or we have to take his roll number.

And either way, the guys ends up embarassed and distanced forever- or is kicked out altogether.

Again, does not make turning down a good guy during rush any easier, but it is vital to know people can afford it before they come in.

As for your last comment about someone wearing Izod, that brought to mind something that came up in a discussion I had years ago when I was an active.

Some of us voted down a potential rushee because he wore a wierd rock T-shirt to a rush party (I think it was Marilyn Manson but I forget.)

His supporters argued that he just needed molding and guidance etc.

His detractors argued that the fact he wore that shirt to the event in the first place showed that he had no concept at all of what we were about or our environment.

And considering back then almost all of our rushees were committed to pledge before school even started- that was the winning argument.

This goes back to the whole earlier argument about where guys in a fraternity come from.

At a small private school with students from around the US, the Izod vs. Polo thing seems ridiculous.

But at a big southern state school where the top tier houses recruit out of a handful of high schools and those people in those high schools come to college with a full understanding of the social norms of the greek organizations if they are suitable candidates- Izod versus Polo means everything.

(Funny you mention Izod. When I was in college they were long gone having been the "poor man's Polo" for as long as I can remember. But recently they are back in the US- and about 6 times the price of Polo. That should be interesting.)

For any of your brothers that criticize men who wear Izod....
Lacoste always shows on 7th Avenue but Polo brand of Ralph Lauren does not (Ralph Lauren has several labels with Polo and Lauren being the lowest on the totem pole).

I'm not a guy and I'm not from the south, so I can't tell you what to think. I personally won't wear a Polo, but don't think ill of those who do. I think your brothers are being too materialistic, and you are right, this is starting to sound like SEC sorority recruitment where emphasis is on looks.

He said Izod, not Lacoste. They are 2 different things. I would explain how, but I really gotta pee.

I'll correct myself. Izod use to be licensed by Lacoste. Guess my fashion knowledge is behind the times.
Either way, the rest of my opinion stands.

It's not really about whether Izod is more expensive than Polo, it is about whether a person fits in.

If someone would have come to one of my chapter's rush parties in a $2,000 casual outfit from someone like Armani or Gucci, they would have been shunned just as readily as someone who showed up with the lizard shirt.

Having lots of money does not alone do the trick- a person has to fit in.

The top tier fraternities and sororities at the SEC schools are a social continuance for most of their members. They came from the same places and they are, at least in most cases, headed in a certain direction.

Decades ago the same could have been said for many venerable chapters in the Northeast.

Maybe that is elitist, but if someone doesn't like it there are plenty of other GLOs on campus where they would be happy. And those other GLOs will tend to have their own particular character that is not suited for everyone.

At the end of the day, all chapters of all fraternities have their own particular rush criteria which can be as rational as GPA or as irrational as a few actives don't like your socks.

But the top tier GLOs get the criticism because they have wealth and privilege which inspires jealousy in others (not attacking you Benzgirl, this is a general commentary on what I have seen here and elsewhere.)

Snore!

So you are born together, are raised together, go to school together, have your babies together, and die together? What about diversity? What about broadening your horizons? Sounds pretty dull to me, but then what does a stupid midwestern hick know about southern social continuance?

So what you are saying is that the "top" (I use that loosely) houses in the SEC living in a vacuum?

I'll stay up north, thank you!:)

You hear all the time about how the members of the top groups at Ole Miss or Bama end up going into state politics, etc. - their connections having been made thru the GLO they joined. This happens all the time in small towns, it's just in this case it's the whole state.

I understand why you say this, and why the decision of whether or not someone can afford the fraternity is based on appearances/family name/etc... But when a freshman comes through rush wearing the right clothes, driving the right car, basically demonstrating that he comes from money, what happens when the fraternity discovers that he himself (and not his dad) is responsible for his dues?

I know many well-to-do families who insist that their children pay their own sorority/fraternity costs. Does the fraternity just assume that, if the guy faces financial difficulties, his daddy will just cough up the cash simply because he can? Or if the guy lets it slip that he's financially responsible for himself, will that negatively affect his chances of getting bid?

I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into words here, but the fact that someone's parents have money doesn't mean that that person has it, too.

I've been wondering this ever since this nation latched onto this diversity kick: What is so great about diversity? It is human nature to gravitate towards those like ourselves. I understand that it is essential to respect other cultures, races, ways of life, backgrounds, etc. but why should I feel the NEED to associate with these people, much less let them into my fraternity. I am not saying that we should go out of our way to keep uniformity, but I am saying that we should NOT go out of our way to make things diverse either. Top tier fraternities are just an example of people from similar backgrounds, with similar lifestyles and goals gravitating together.

No one is saying "diversity for the sake of diversity" in social (or I dare say any other) GLOs. What benzgirl is against is the OMG THEY'RE NOT FROM HERE mentality that prevents you from getting to know someone that you might have a lot in common with and like a lot, even if they weren't raised in the same town or in the same social strata. I mean looking at where I come from, who would have thought I'd be friends with, among others, a 60 year old chemical engineer, a young mother from Peoria and a nice Jewish girl from New York City? :)

It seems that judging from some posts on here, there are chapters that DO make an effort to keep things "uniform." That's their prerogative, but don't be surprised if the majority of people you meet think it's narrow minded.

Exactly. It's simply my anti-bubble boy mentality and is something my parents taught me from the time I was little. I feel as if I am a better person by crossing paths with people from various countries, religions, races and socio-economic classes. I have learned from my experiences.

I agree. My chapter was not a top tier chapter. We were proud to identify ourselves as second tier because of what we saw as the dark side of being a top tier. Yes we were expensive and had a gigantic house, but we were far more open minded in our rush selections and unlike many chapters at my alma mater, we pretty much automatically welcomed brothers who transferred to our school from other chapters.

The vast majority of people from my high school went to one particular top tier chapter, but that does not mean all of us wanted to live the very boring existence you have pretty well summed up in all its dullness.

I was just explaining how it is in that environment. But luckily even though I did not fit in, I did manage to grow up and have a life. Amazing, no? :)

To SydneyK,

At many of the kinds of schools we are discussing, certainly at mine, the overwhelming majority of kids in the top tier fraternities and sororities had parents and grandparents who were also Greek. They know and appreciate the importance of the experience, and they do not skip out on their kids when it comes to paying the dues.

As a chapter advisor, my advice to any chapter is to contact parents of all new pledges to welcome their son to the fraternity. I have very rarely observed situations where a kid was going to pay for it on his own and have it work out that way. Even working full time in college, it is nearly impossible to keep up with dues and the related expenses of the lifestyle on your own.

EvanWilliams, good for you for standing up for your beliefs. I would agree that it's extremely important not to alienate alumni.

One comment I would have re: the small town vs. city thing is that a lot of times small town guys may not have as much of a clue about "appropriate" male dress. For example at my school there were a variety of extremely elite, predominantly southern fraternities, but some drew mostly from southern cities (and more specifically a few major high schools in those cities) and others drew from more widely across the south's small towns. The difference was that the ones drawing from smaller towns tended to be a little more rough around the edges and enjoy slightly different pursuits (eg, hunting, 4-wheeling) whereas the city-oriented groups were more "polished" and probably a bit more concerned about dress and a guy's looks. I would say that overall the "city" frats were considered as stronger groups, but I'm speaking about the top 4-5 fraternities in the first place, so obviously all of them had strong reputations. I don't by any means think that the small town guys were from "worse" families or less wealthy than the city guys, just a slightly different culture.

Speaking of high fraternity dues, check out my alma mater's:

http://studentaffairs.wlu.edu/campus...arges_2007.pdf

Keep in mind that all members (not new members) have to pay for board and dues. And sophomores have to live in too. I can't even imagine shelling out what the sophomores pay....

That describes my chapter perfectly. We didn't have the best mixers, but if you ever wanted to go hunting or fishing- someone had something planned just about every weekend.

True. I was a scholarship student (and that's why I went to W&L instead of Davidson or Furman). Most people can pay for these types of fraternity dues, but I think there's a significant number than are uncomfortable with the dues and also with the general standards based on looks etc., so there's this awkward balancing that goes on...

There are certainly fraternities that draw from the south and fraternities that draw from the north and mid-Atlantic at W&L. I was distinguishing between them from the beginning in my post. Honestly, I hung out at the mid-Atlantic fraternities, but I did have a knowledge of the more southern groups and their practices.

I guess my point is that there are different kinds of preppy and even within "elite" southern frats there can be different kinds of preppy.

For example within my favorite fraternity at W&L (the one I think produces the most gentleman and campus leaders) there are guys from many backgrounds and many of them don't even take a sip of alcohol until they are 21. They probably aren't cool in the big scheme of W&L frats and the group draws from both the mid-Atlantic and South but it's just the "nicest" guys IMO. It really depends on your individual experience.

My only goal in the original post was to point out variations between even "elite southern" groups and to comment on that.

Actually most of the swimmers pledge a particular frat at W&L so that could have had an effect too.