Re-Initiating
 

I have a friend in another sorority at another school and she hates it. She wants to join mine and we both know that she cannot since she is already initiated into another. I think its a bad idea but she thinks it will go unnoticed if she rushes or pledges my sorority. Is there really a background check or a list of social security numbers that panahellenic checks? Is there actually anything done to prevent this from happening? I have heard stories of people getting away with it but like I said i think its a bad idea.

Its against the rules. Its a small world . . . but maybe she could get away with it.

I don't think there is a concerted effort to check a major panhellenic database for all transfers, but if she is trasferring into a school that requires recs and what not she increases her chance of being found out.

Shrug.

I am assuming that these are NPC sororities.....Why ask the question? You already know it is a bad idea for you friend. There are those few girls that get away with it, but I think the odds are against her. Not to mention once word gets out to the new sorority that she was already a member of the old sorority, things could get really ugly. Why take that chance and always worry that this could be the day that she will be found out.
This is why new member period is so important. She is supposed to figure out if it is a good fit for her before she is initiated.

Doesn't the recruitment application ask if she has previously joined a sorority? Why spend your college days living this lie? That is more trouble then it is worth. Concentrate on graduating.

One more thing, you would also have to lie for her. To me, that would be disloyal to your own sorority.

**I know I took the moral point of view instead of just pointing out the NPC rules. It just irritates me when girls do this.

If she wants to be in a sorority that bad, have her look at local sororities if there are any on campus.


****We should sticky a thread like this at the top of this forum or the recruitment forum, so people can stop asking this question.
ETA: I see that it is pointed out in the Newbie Questions thread, but we still seem to get this question about twice a week.

I think we need a really good, concise FAQ thread, that's not 80 pages long. And (yes coming from the queen of snark) it needs to be non-snarky.

Maybe a mod can start and lock it, and add questions as they are thought of.

And I'm talking things like:

Q: I joined an NPC, but now I hate it, can I join another one, and how would anyone know??
A: You may not under any circumstance join another NPC after you've been initiated. No, there isn't a database, but your chances of getting found out are high.

Short and to the point questions and answers.

she is in Delta Zeta. she said that they lied to her whole pledge class from things like how much dues are, to meetings, to the type of personality they were just so that they could make quota. I guess they were all fake or something. After Initiation she said everyone was different. In fact only 7 people remain from her pledge class so she feels like she was misled and felt like they were sisters thats why she initiated. I feel like she deserves to have genuine sisters thats the only reason why i would lie about it but like I said i think its a bad idea.

I have looked at a few threads but the problem is that there are a lot of different answers. I thought maybe if it asked again I might get the facts.

If there isnt a datbase or anything how would her chances of being found out be high?

It probably depends on the school she/you go to, or wherever she's transfering to. Unless she's transfering to a school far away, it's likely there will be people "who know people" at her old school. People talk.

ETA: I just re-read your original post, and noticed that you didn't even mention transferring. Is she planning on staying at her school and re-rushing? Because she would definitely not get away with that.

I know of a situation where, even though the woman transferred long distance, she was found out. There are pictures....people talk.....guilt gets to people....it happens. And in the case I know about, she had to disaffilate from BOTH groups leaving her without membership at all.

If being in a sorority is a big deal to you friend, then she needs to consider a local OR she needs to stick it out. I get it--she was mislead, but she also took an oath and she has the power to make things better if she stays put.

There was a girl at my campus that transferred after initiating and signed up for recruitment at another school. Someone from her old school found out that she was going through recruitment again -- friends of friends and all -- and called the Greek Life office at her new school. They made a few phone calls and sure enough, she was unceremoniously kicked out of recruitment. It looked really, really bad for her. It was not a good situation all around, but she was convinced she could fly under the radar.

I also wouldn't rule out that you could get in trouble if you allowed her to be initiated into your sorority and you knew that she was already affiliated. I actually think you could get in really, really big trouble. Tread carefully.

Or...
 

why doesn't your friend transfer and affiliate with a different chapter of Delta Zeta? Chapters can really vary from campus to campus. Just because she isn't happy in her chapter of DZ doesn't mean she wouldn't feel at home someplace else.

I wouldn't even try.

She might be able to get away with it. But people know people, and people talk, and information travels fast, especially in this day and age. She would have to keep her current affiliation secret not just during recruitment, but throughout her new member period and her time as an active sister (and if she wants to become an active alum, she'll have to keep the secret for life), because if she is found out, she will be kicked out immediately from both sororities.

She can, of course, pursue other opportunities like service GLOs, professional GLOs, and other clubs and activities, if she's dissatisfied with her sorority. Or, she and her pledge sisters can work from within to make positive changes within her chapter (which is a lot harder than it sounds!).

I am not sure if this is the same school or not. I find it hard to believe that it is the same school because what makes her think that this other sorority would want her? She acts as if the only thing in her way is the fact that she was already initiated in another sorority. Wouldn't the other girls already know about this girl?

The OP stated in the first post that her friend is at another school.

HeatherH84 -- there is no black or white answer to your question. The facts have been presented to you, you know the rules, and my advice would be to tell your friend that she shouldn't go through with it. If she tries to join your sorority, let her know that you have an obligation as a member of your organization to maintain its integrity.

The fact that she's being disloyal to her organization (regardless of the circumstances) is a red flag in itself. What makes you think she'll be a loyal asset to your sorority?

Keep in mind that college is only for a few years. The DZ sisterhood lasts a lifetime, and while her current situation is not the most ideal, there are plenty of other sisters out there.

You know it's wrong. And you know what to do. I don't see why you have to question it any further.

I totally forgot about that part of the post. oops. :)

i'm not sure how orgs in the other councils work, but in the NPHC, you cannot join an organization after you have become of member of another one that is an honorary, or service org.


and IF she would have been able to join another org, she's what is called a PANCAKE!!!

So are you saying that NPHC members cannot hold dual memberships in in the NPHC and service/honorary/professional organizations? I know that once initiated in the NPHC, you cannot join another NPHC. But I know several NPHC members who are in service/honorary/professional fraternities.

It's the same for the NPC. Once initiated in the NPC, you cannot join another NPC sorority. The original poster knows this. What she was wondering is HOW her friend would be found out if she decided to initiate into two.

OTW you know damn well the person you quoted is just plain wrong. lol I don't know why you feel like being nice.

There is a database.

First, you can only be misled if you let people mislead you. There is a wealth of information on the internet about all the NPC organizations, including chapter websites; plus, every campus I know of has a greek advisor, and they should know about things like dues and so on. I don't think there's ever any excuse for being misled...you're just under-informed, and that's your friends own fault.

Second, if she really hates her chapter, maybe it's her. Not to be mean to your friend, but if she hates the ENTIRE chapter, or if they hate her, maybe it's her, not them.

Third, if it is just her chapter, but she still wants to be in a sorority, she pretty much has 2 options that don't include being deceitful. She can join a local or a service sorority or something like that (some people just want the letters...) or she can transfer to another chapter of Delta Zeta. I'm not sure how many chapters there are...but I'm willing to be it's quite a few (ie probably in the hundreds). If I hated my chapter, I have over 100 other Phi Mu chapters that I could conceivably transfer to.

Sorry if this is harsh. I just have no sympathy for people who don't read the fine print, aren't proactive in finding out information, and who let themselves be misled. And people who try to be deceitful are just the kind of people who give greeks a bad name.

Shut up, tard.

[I really really really am nice. Don't let these fools tell you otherwise.]

I know you're nice, I've seen the pictures. :)

That is not true. For my org you cannot become a member if you are or have been a member of a NPC or another NPHC org. We have many members who are also members of honorary or service orgs.

LOL. I should have read ahead.

For some reason I like OTW. :D

I second that. And frankly, I don't know why you don't think her scheme is more than just a "bad idea," as you called it. I would be completely pissed if I were you. I don't know why you don't feel like she's horribly disrespecting your organization by thinking she can just juggle around sororities as it suits her.

It's not just a "bad idea" because she might get caught. It's a bad idea because it goes against a major tenent of membership in your sorority, and I hope you'd feel passionately enough about your sorority to not let her blatantly break your rules.

This is not directed at anyone, but please let's not tell people to try locals as second option. It can be read as "if you don't get into a real sorority, try a local, they let everyone in." Locals have their own criteria and rules regarding people who have already initiated into other groups. Granted, they would probably not be able to access the NPC database of initiates.

I know it is meant as a "you can't initiate in our council, but local/other councils may allow you to be initiated", but it can be misread as "they let everyone in."

Tell your friend to ask the chapter president if she can take a look at the ritual book. She should read the oath she took at initiation (and don't tell me that I don't know DZ ritual; let's be honest folks, they are all the same).

Oh, no, I didn't mean it like that at all! I was actually in a local that I started before I joined Phi Mu. While our local was most definitely not a "real" sorority, I know that a lot of locals are. Sorry for the confusion, no offense meant!

I had a friend with a very similar story to yours. She joined an NPC sorority, was very unhappy with both the chapter and the school and she transferred to a school closer to home. She went through recruitment with some new friends she made at her new school just to hold their hands and wound up with a bid at another NPC sorority with girls she absolutely loved. She really really wanted to join them, even disaffiliating from her original sorority. She finally decided not to accept the bid.

Think about it carefully-she may transfer to another school, disaffiliate from DZ and get a bid to a chapter she loves. She makes lots of friends, loves the school, loves her sorority and then one day-BOOM! Something slips, it might be a facebook or myspace indiscretion, or one of the sisters at her new chapter knows someone from her old school, any kind of connection like that...suddenly she's stripped of her membership with her new chapter and now she's got nothing and her new sisters hate her, her old sisters hate her and she's lost it all.
My advice-tell your friend to stick it out and if she really can't, take alum status or disaffiliate. You don't need letters or a sorority to be happy in college and if she's depending on that-well, never mind, this part gets bitchy based upon a loose assumption so I won't go there. There are other clubs and organizations she can join and as others have said, other chapters of DZ at other schools. Delta Zeta is a great organization and she may just be in the wrong chapter for her.

What do you mean hundreds of thousands of chapters? 100,000 other chapters to transfer to? I thought maybe I misunderstood you at first, but I think you may be confused?

No, I'm not confused, I'm just sleepy and can't type correctly. I meant hundreds of chapters, hundreds of thousands of women this girl's friend might be able to get along with. I shall fix it!

Ah, gotcha.

Thanks y'all for all your help and advice! I just feel so bad cuz she so badly wanted to have great sisters!!! I will talk to her about trying to transfer to a different DZ chapter!!! :o)

A few years ago when I was recruitment chair, a girl transferred in that was an initiated member of Sigma Kappa. The SK president from her old campus emailed the presidents and recruitment chairs of each sorority on our campus to let us know because she had a feeling the girl might try to join another group. The girl had never said anything, she just had a feeling. I emailed her back to ask her about the girl because she had contacted me and was eligible to join Phi Chi since we were local. There may be thousands upon thousands or millions of Greek women around the world, but that world can become very small when it needs to be.

Ok...I know it happens, because we've seen it before...but I still can't get over the fact that people would actually transfer schools because of a GLO.

If/when I ever get around to looking at Grad schools, if two schools I'm looking at are basically identical in reputation, academic offering, etc and one has ASA, I'm going with the one that has ASA. If the one with ASA is academically inferior, I'm going with the better college.

Also, I really hate seeing this GLO getting dragged through the mud on this thread. Every GLO has a bad chapter or 3, but they don't need to be pointed out. This GLO had great women on my campus.

I know MANY women who are members of a NPCH sorority and also in organizations like Tau Beta Sigma (honorary) and Gamma Sigma Sigma (service)... so obviously this isnt true - and not just at my school but at other schools, including HBCUs.

Transferring to a new school because you don't like your sorority is not necessarily the best course of action. I know that sometimes as college students we lose sight of the big picture, but the fact remains that we go to college to get an education so that we can go on to be working professionals.

Your friend cannot join another NPC. She has the option to stick it out with DZ or drop out of DZ. Should she transfer to another university where there is a DZ chapter, there is no guarantee that the chapter will approve her petition to affiliate.

Should she be dishonest and rush at another school under the pretense that she was never initiated into an NPC, she will be living a lie. At some point, by her own slip up or guilt, or if someone else knows the truth, her life will become a living hell and she will completely destroy the chapter she joined because of her lies.

Also, she needs to carefully consider the repercussions of transferring. Whether mom and dad are footing the bill for college, or she's working her way through, on student aid, etc., not all of her credits are guaranteed to transfer. She may spend a lot of time and a lot more money to complete college because she transferred.

She needs to think through what her priorities are. If she isn't enjoying the sorority, she needs to talk to her big sister, or a chapter adviser. She can involved as a sorority leader and help effect change to make this the chapter she believed she was joining. Or she can drop out of the sorority. There are many meaningful activities on a college campus that she can investigate.

At the end of the day, she needs to make the decision to stay in DZ or drop DZ. But she must consider all her options carefully and keep sight of the big picture: college graduation within a reasonable amount of time and some professional goals to strive toward. We don't go to college just to join sororities and then bounce around to various universities trying to find a sorority we're happiest with. Every sorority has internal issues. This one sounds like it may have more than most, but not every sorority woman loves her chapter all of the time, and it is up to her to make it work or quit. This decision is never an easy one.

A sorority is a fulfilling social activity where you can make wonderful friends and memories, and you have a reasonable amount of time to determine during your 4-8 week new member period if this is a place you feel comfortable before initiation. She made the decision to be initiated, even with only 7 others staying in her pledge class and knowing there were problems. She needs to be a mature adult and think about ethical and financially feasible options that will get her to where she needs to be. But at the end of the day, someone who transfers to a different university for a sorority opportunity... well, that's just not a very mature decision.

Ok, now I'm a little confused about the whole "being a member of NPHC means you can't be a member of a professional/service org." Sorry for being dumb, but what does NPHC stand for?

I ask because I'm an ADPi, but I also joined the Phi Alpha Delta Pre-Law Fraternity (before recruitment) and nothing has happened concerning my dual membership. Lots of girls in my chapter, and other chapters on campus are in a professional fraternity as well.

The National Pan-Hellenic Council, Inc. (NPHC) is an umbrella organization for nine historically black Greek letter fraternities and sororities. You'll often hear them referred to as the Divine 9.

I'm surprised you don't know what NPHC stands for. I know not all New Member Education programs are the same, but I assumed that there'd be some information about the NPHC. I learned about the NPHC the same time I learned about the other 25 NPC sororities.

As far as dual memberships go (in a NPC/NPHC & honorary/professional/service sense), we all know it's possible and allowed. The person I quoted earlier was definitely mistaken.