Jeff's Folly (edited subject)
 

Yeah, so. After tonight, my big bro called me on the cell phone and I answered and he said that the chapter had a consensus on vote for me and that I was going to be held over for a semester and that I will not be going through pre-i this time.

That is all.

Jeff

Sorry to hear that dude.

Some of the best brothers I have seen were hold-overs. I cant speak on behalf of your chapter, I can only make reference to things from my chapter(s). When an AM is held over its usually due to one or more of a following reasons:

1) The brothers feel the AM needed more time to learn about the org. Could have been that the big didnt spend enough time with him.

2) The brothers didnt know the AM well enough and want to get to know him better. Often that means the AM didn't or couldnt come to a lot of chapter events or meetings and might not have spent a lot of time just hanging out with the brothers or other AM's.

If they didnt like you or couldnt see you as a brother, they would have cut you.

Hang in there.

http://www.lambdachi.org/collegiate/...ventstatus.asp

I don't see the Las Vegas chapter approved for Pre-I this week.

For those of you that have AIM, Jeff's ID is wxjeff. I talked to him some last night on AIM; he seemed thoughfull about the situation and was composing a letter to his big, which is understandable.

More of us need to talk to him, I think.

Stay with it Jeff. Don't give up........

Don't feel to bad, one of my closest friend and brother was a three time AM, so it could be worse. My chapter holds people over due to grades or chapter participation.

Well, after a pretty long conversation with my president, they basically didn't extend me the entrance into pre-i because they didn't know me. They could've kicked me out, yes, but they decided to retain me for next semester.

But, for the record, I do know my shit and yes, I attended every chapter function possible. Commitment is not something I fail to acknowledge.

Jeff

You attended everything, knew your stuff and you seem like an outgoing person. What they did was really weird. Are you sure there's not some underlying reason or anything? Did you make enemies with anyone?

Nah, they just 'didn't know me'. And retaining seems cool, but there was a guy.. who barely showed up to big bro/little bro meetings and never attended a chapter meeting nor chapter events and he is being held over to the next semester. So, I have no clue if being retained is showing that they do really want me to pursue it, or that kicking out people really isn't their thing.

Jeff

Word, definately. That's why I am thinking that my future in Lambda Chi Alpha is at its endpoint. I have plans for bringing a chapter onto our campus that isn't social, so who knows.

Jeff

I would hang in there. Give it a second chance. Perhaps there are some concerns not voiced to you (perhaps they didn't feel comfortable doing so). Work hard with your big brother to find out more "why".

I ran into a similar issue, though it was brought to my attention before the I vote was taken. Even though I knew all the members, there were some that didn't "know" me. Just going to parties and functions sometimes isn't enough. My big told me who some of them were, and I made it a point to find times to hang out and get to know them, and me, better. I think it helped. There were some perceptions I think they had of me that just weren't true, but they didn't really know me that well to know for sure.

But the best advice I can give you is what my big gave me: don't give up. If you want it bad enough, others will see it. Don't be afraid to confess faults.

Jeff, I can only echo what Brothers like LXAAlum and lifesaver have passed on to you.:cool:

It is a plus to You that the Zeta is holding you over and not just dismissing you.

There may be many things that We as Cyber Brothers are not aware of and only You know. But, do not give up the ghost. Just prove to them that You will be a Brother that all of us think you can be and will be.:)

There are many out in LXA Dom who have been there before and have become great Brothers. Remember, with Our Associate Membership, you can still participate in what the Chapter does.

I was one of the lucky ones when I was kicked out of SX as a Pledge, and the rest is History.:cool:

Ok now!


I've never heard of the "hold over" AM thing, we never did that, and I cannot personally relate to it (stopping the AM process before initiation? say what?). Maybe it is done somewhere.


Peace

Lenoxxx

Yeah, I'm definately sorry about posting this on here, didn't know it'd turn this way.

I'm definately reconsidering Greek Life.. again for the second time. Maybe I'm not cut out for it, moving on would be leaving Greek Life because I'm not up to looking at a third fraternity. You'll have to ask me specifically about what happened to the first one, but I was damn determined to make this one a reality.

I'm definately into this fraternity and the chapter was awesome, I just don't know. I'm confused on why one of my brothers made it through. Now here is what I've came up with, after speaking with brothers and other people outside of it.

Basically there were four associate members. Now, two are advancing to pre-i and two of us are held over, A and B are the ones going through it and C is the one who is being held over with me. Now, A is a hold over from last semester. He was held over because of grades, nothing else.

B went through the AM ceremony with me. He wasn't well versed in the actual learning portion of our AM period, but he definately hung out with some of the brothers, playing beer pong and drinking. I spent time with "B" and helped him out with the learning shit that he needed to know. More on him later.

Now, C.. the guy who is held over with me, is a guy from last semester. On his way to Greek 101, he was attacked with a knife and whatnot, so.. he was hospitalized, but now he has been 100 percent since before this semester. During this semester, he hasn't attended any chapter meetings, philanthropy events, intramural events, socials, parties, nothing.. only thing he attended was the big bro/little bro meetings and he didn't even attend the important ones.

He was HELD-OVER this semester so he could do it this semester, but even then.. they held him again over. Now he said that his classes were fucked.. and that the fraternity was like, "this semester doesn't count". None-the-less, I'm in the same group as this guy who wasn't committed at all.

I worked my ass off, was committed and everything. It suprised a lot of people today when I told them the news. I think it's fucked up to be held over with a guy who didn't do anything. He was back up to par and failed to go to anything whereas I went to everything and hung out.

Now, if I wasn't known so much to the brothers.. why didn't anyone tell my big bro or me? How can I hang out with the bros if all they want to do.. is go and hang out.. playing beer pong and looking for easy chicks? I went to the house as much as I could, but seriously.. that was the only thing that was happening. Maybe if I drunk and played more, I might've gotten to know the brothers better, but I won't sacrifice my own personal ethics in order to do this.

B hung out with the brothers and played beer pong and drunk, that's all he did. B got into pre-i without really knowing much about the fraternity. A got into pre-i because he is a held-over from last semester and he has his grades up. C is being held over because.. uhm, he didn't have classes so he was then ok to not go to anything. I am being held over because the brothers didn't know me. So, I should've done what B did and I'd make a great impression, or I can be who I am and say 'fuck no, I'm not giving up who I am to join something.'

They might be a "tight-knit group" but I will never sacrifice my personal ethics to get to know the brothers through an avenue that I do not partake in.

Jeff *edited for grammer*

Dude, don't give up any of your beliefs for a fraternity or change who you are.


Unfortunately that is the world we live in and you are starting to experience. In the real world, the people who get promotions usually aren't the most qualified. Maybe they make the boss laugh. Maybe they suck up. Maybe they sleep with the boss.

A fraternity has many parts to it. It does have a drinking/social part. It does have a traditional and a ritualistic part.

I'll tell ya, I didn't join a fraternity to go through rituals and learn creeds and so on. I did it for the girls, the parties, the fun, the friends. I did it for the brotherhood, the memories.

Keep your head up bro. We would have taken you in if you went to Umass.

I've been both a "hold over" and someone who has advocated holding someone over... and for the most part it comes down to numbers in the voting - ie. enough to grant Associate Membership but not quite enough to initiate - as in either not enough of the guys made an effort to get to know him or sound him out; or that the guy in question didn't make enough of an impression (good or bad) on the members.

This all being said some of the strongest members i've seen in a number of Greek systems are those that where "held-over" - most likely due to the fact the truely dedicated and motivated members stuck with it.

GammaZeta, while I am sure your Heart is in the right place, some of your remarks are not.

This has nothing to do with Your Zeta, but the fact of a young man trying to get a hang of the what, and why of HIS Situation, not yours.

As you said, You do not know the real situation. Some of your remarks were out of order. A New Associate Member does not dictate to The Active Chapter.

I am sure there are more than one Brother getting tired of your anti remarks towards IHQ, and You are not helping Your situation at Amherst for a re-entry of Charter Status.

Keep it cool and chilled.

As R A Cooper stated, there are hold overs, and there is nothing wrong with that. It does happen for various reasons.

Jeff, please PM Me so we can discuss this off site.

Jeff has alot more patience than me. If I did everything that he did and got "held over," I'd tell the fraternity to go screw.

And I thought an AM had the exact same rights and responsibilities that a brother had in a chapter? Having Jeff held over is like taking a history exam, getting an A+ on it, and then having the professor tell you that you have to take the class again next semester.

My remarks are not anti-HQ, all I tell is the truth.. I have the SAME exact say in any matter regarding LXA than ANYONE or any brother.

People need to wake up and realize that our frat is not perfect. For Christ's sake, OUR OWN FOUNDER GOT KICKED OUT of the fraternity he started!

While that may be your opinion, I suggest that you cool your jets.

If you want to call, You have My phone # or PM me.

This stops now or I will Lock it or delete it.

I will be at an Alum Function tonight, but the CP is on.

If you do not have it, PM Me and I will give it to you!

I agree Tom.

Jeff you seem like a good guy. If you were held over then there is a reason for it. I think Gamma is just doing what he usually does. Most of us are able to call other brothers by their first name, but we still as of yet do not know Gamma's. He came on this forum in a whirl wind of trouble and has had it follow him where ever he has posted.
You'll make the choice that is right for you, and it isn't our descision to make. Good Luck and I hope you stick it out.

I have not now nor ever thought our HQ is perfect. You can’t have sat through the alumni workshop that Tom Earp, Jono, JoinerLXA and I all did and think our HQ is perfect. Hell we were damn near bankrupt because of jackasses like Tom Helmbock and Bob London who almost ran the fraternity into the ground. There’s lots of thing that HQ has done in the past that bothers me. I’ll even list a few for you that PROVE that I am not ‘drinking the HQ kool-aid’. 1) I don’t like that money rules the day. Some chapters who’s alums donate a lot of money get treated differently that new or ‘less affluent’ chapters. 2) They have always been very disorganized and have taken forever to get back to you. Hell I can remember that when I was initiated, it took a year to get my membership certificate. That’s ridiculous. But one of the differences between you and I, is that instead of sitting back and bitching about things, I got involved in HQ business to see how I could help. I SAW that the staff up there was made up of good, hard working people who want to help the fraternity. They obviously do it for the love, cause the pay is for crap. HQ screws up. They are human. We all screw up. I am only speaking of the Fraternity here. I could care less what happened between you and LCAP. See, LCAP is a COMPLETELY different entity from the FRATERNITY. Yes, they are separate companies, with separate boards of directors. I don’t work with any chapters who deal with LCAP, so I don’t care what they do. Its not the Fraternity, its a separate company.

I served my ACTIVE, OPEN chapter (at three different universities) as Phi, Kappa, Delta and Beta, and now Pi. I also served as IFC VP of Recruitment and VP External. I have attended 3 Leadership Seminars, 3 General Assemblies, 6 Conclaves/RLS and am a graduate of LEAP 4, the precursor to IMPACT. I have performed 4 of the 5 positions in the AM ceremony and this Saturday, I’ll be seeing Ritual for the 34th time. Really, I write down each time I see it in the front of my paed.

I’m not worried about what was allegedly shown on national TV. As someone on here said, to the general public, they cant tell us apart from the other Greeks. LXA has a great rep. Campus’ want us to come there. We are one of a very few fraternities that get asked to come to campuses. you? You didn’t join because it sucked, did you? It might suck to be a Lambda Chi in the Northeast, but it sure as hell rocks down here in Texas. Maybe you just joined at the wrong school.



Kudos to your big brother for serving the country. I respect everyone who serves the country. I use the awards as a qualification of a successful chapter.

I have not now nor ever thought our HQ is perfect. You can’t have sat through the alumni workshop that Tom Earp, Jono, JoinerLXA and I all did and think our HQ is perfect. Hell we were damn near bankrupt because of jackasses like Tom Helmbock and Bob London who almost ran the fraternity into the ground. "There’s lots of thing that HQ has done in the past that bothers me. I’ll even list a few for you that PROVE that I am not ‘drinking the HQ kool-aid’. 1) I don’t like that money rules the day. Some chapters who’s alums donate a lot of money get treated differently that new or ‘less affluent’ chapters. 2) They have always been very disorganized and have taken forever to get back to you. Hell I can remember that when I was initiated, it took a year to get my membership certificate. That’s ridiculous. But one of the differences between you and I, is that instead of sitting back and bitching about things, I got involved in HQ business to see how I could help. I SAW that the staff up there was made up of good, hard working people who want to help the fraternity. They obviously do it for the love, cause the pay is for crap. HQ screws up. They are human. We all screw up. I am only speaking of the Fraternity here. I could care less what happened between you and LCAP. See, LCAP is a COMPLETELY different entity from the FRATERNITY. Yes, they are separate companies, with separate boards of directors. I don’t work with any chapters who deal with LCAP, so I don’t care what they do. Its not the Fraternity, its a separate company."

I respect your opinion and am glad that you agree with me. However, LCAP and HQ do go hand in hand. They try to appear separate but they are not. I've dealt with both simultaniously during the selling of our house and renting out our house. I think the frat would run much better if there was a true division between the two.

Being in a small chapter means alot more experience than normal. Yes, you have held many official positions. However, my experience, although I too have held many official positions, is more about the nitty gritty of chapter functions. Waking up at 4 am becaue the heater broke or the oil ran out. Dealing with nazi-like health and building inspectors just waiting to shut you down for any violation. Dealing with the town to help schedule the repayment of thousands of dollars of back taxes. Dealing with a stabbing that was non-fraternal related and random on the chapters front lawn. Dealing with non-brother tenants that violate rules or don't pay their rent. Dealing with contractors to bring the house up to code so we can get a occupation certificate. Those are just the normal circumstances I've dealt with. I can't even begin to tell you the absolutely, weird, unusual, difficult, stupid things that I've dealt with. Unlike many chapters, we never had the comfort of having a strong alumni base or alumni experience to guide us through. Our chapter existed on the hard work of a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds with no life experience. We learned as we went along because we had to, there was no one there telling us we were getting ripped off for the price of oil for our furnace. There was no one there telling us the contractor was taking advantage of us. There was no one there telling us our legal rights when it came to house inspection. It was actually pretty damn unfair to have house leadership and members deal with full time college, financial difficulties, normal frat problems, and a house (like other Umass frats) constantly being threatened for health violations. That's why I say I have more experience than most other people in actually "running" a chapter. Our chapter meetings didn't deal with frat problems, they dealt with where we were going to get the money for heat, or how to pay the water bill.

As far as the ritual, I know that damn thing inside out. I have most of it memorized. Go ahead, quiz me.

No I joined at the right school. My best friends were met there. But you are right, it does suck being in any frat up here. Frats in the northeast are not what they used to be, most are struggling to survive. That puts alot of added pressure on everyone.

Sorry for the red-neck comment, uncalled for.

1. Gamma Zeta, if my memory serves me right, was on the lower probation, if not off of it, when it closed. There was an incident several years before I joined in which the probation started. I do think that it was unfair how HQ treated the current brothers for the sins of those before them. No one from the original incident were even active but there was still probation. I can tell you, we worked our asses off to get off probation only to have HQ say not good enough. And that was dealing with all the other crap we had. We showed amazingly good faith towards HQ, only to have them ignore us. The semester before we closed, I believe we were even being considered for the Pheonix Award (I think thats what its called.)
2. I don't know. Hell I didn't even know that HQ had those ratings anymore. When the consultants came, we usually got good comments. Nothing major.
3. Academically we were diverse. We mostly were average to the rest of the frats. However, that was only because of one or two brothers that were slacking. So far, out of the last 25 brothers initiated, we have 5 in top ranked law schools, Cordozza and Columbia and another 4-6 pursuing their M.B.A's. We have several others that are working at some of the most respected financial institutions in Boston and several working for Fortune 50 companies. So to put it shortly, we were actually a pretty damn smart group.

1. None
2. None

I don't need people to have to thank me for my work, I just do what needs to be done.

Now here's two questions for you:

1. How many of your brothers ever thanked you for spending your own significant amount of money to buy building materials so the chapter wouldn't lose its residency permit?

2. How many of your brothers ever thanked you for risking your academic standing because the chapter needed you?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Time to pull this thread
 

At this point, I think the moderators need to pull this thread. If the guys want to tussle, let them do it in private, this is not productive anymore.

LXAALUM/ Tom?

Lenoxxx

Hmmm... sounds shockingly familiar - almost anyone from a smaller chapter in the North East or Canada could say pretty much the same thing.... your experience is unfortunately in no way unique - anyone from a smaller chapter will recognize the issues brought up by fewer people to shoulder the load and responsibility - you just work through it though.



Again a common trait in the smaller chapters - again because less people are there to shoulder the responsibility and workload.



Yeah... the North East while the heart and soul of most GLOs in the early days are on "hard times" now... partly because of changing attitudes towards greeks, and partly because of the actions (or inactions) of greeks themselves... It'll take alot of work and effort to turn it around, or in some regain what has been lost.

I personally feel that those from this region have alot to contribute to the growth of the Fraternity - their mettle has been tested a little more frequently... and as such some great leaders can be produced - the problem is finding leaders that haven't become jaded or burnt-out by the pressure, but inpsired and hopeful for the future...

Again not unique... I can answer both of these in the affirmative and state that the numbers are both around a dozen actives and a dozen alumni...

Stop thinking that your experiences are unique as many, many other Brothers have experienced "hard-times" and difficulties as both active and alum while in the service of the Fraterinty.


PS> If you want to disparage the Fraternity or Brothers on thi board - please pursue it in a less public form, or temper your remarks so that they fall within the bounds of constructive debate...

No need to, we're just starting to get settled and have a civilized conversation. We got it out of our systems.

The northeast greek systems are in serious trouble. More so than the rest of the nation. Sure we may get a few upward bumps, but we are still headed downward. I don't think it is because of the actual greeks themselves, it has more to do with the outside influences, such as college/university administration and general population attitude than anything.

Plain and simple, non-greeks simply do not want frats and sororities anymore and are willing to do anything to get rid of them. Why? I don't know.

I can only speculate that the northeast is by virtue a more liberal place. Such greek organizations are not viewed as being accpeting and are now politically incorrect. Interesting, I wonder how the greek systems in the "blue" and "red" states compare. I wonder if there is some type of social aspect that is affecting our numbers.

As far as the ritual, it was not because I was in a smaller chapter. We were very dedicated to ritual and everyone always did their share, so no problems there. I did however take the time by myself to learn more and read up on it. My knowledge comes from my own undertaking and not because it was forced upon me. Now I am not a history buff like the others because I had no idea or time to collect the history, but as far as the actual ritual goes, I'm an expert.

I doubt it... for example in Canada the 'liberal' parties, the Liberals and the NDP, both have Fraternity men as leaders - whereas the 'conservative' parties do not... in fact that has nearly always been the case historically as well up here.

Hey guys, yeah.. so after a few days of thinking, I believe that I'll stay in the fraternity. It just sucks that now I feel majorly excluded from the group after the vote, but I'll persevere.

Jeff

Good for you Jeff. Use the time wisely - if you and your big have a good relationship, have him find out those that didn't "know you" and make it a point to get to know them (that means learn about them, their personalities, don't compromise your values. If they insist on you doing so, let exec know, and perhaps that is a good sign to leave, for THEY are compromising the ideals of LXA at that point).

If you and your big aren't very close, then go to a brother in the chapter you are close with and try the same thing.

I wish you the best - it's so worth it.

Hey Jeff, I'll give you a little advice about feeling excluded. You're not going to like or get along with everyone in the chapter, especially a big chapter. Remember to always respect them and try to get along though.

Try to find your niche. If recruitment is your thing, put alot of effort into rush. If ritual is your thing, do ritual. If fundraising is what you enjoy, do fundraising. Then, if you specialize, you'll meet and get to know alot of the other guys that enjoy and are working on the same thing.

You can't be everyone's best friend, that is not expected of you. But do your best to at least know something about everyone.

Remember, not everything about being a brother is actual LXA teachings and what not. My experience showed me that most frats really don't focus on the fraternity for much of the day while socializing. Try to not to get to know people because you want to get in or gain acceptance or because they are a brother, get to know people like you would anyone else. Go drinking with them one night, play some Xbox, get a study group, get a group of guys together to paint the porch, grab some guys to go to a ska concert.

I remember when I was a n.i.bshit, I kind of felt excluded. Everyone had their little groups that would go out, etc. I never was ever really invited to go with them. Then one day an older brother asked why I didn't go out as much. I told him they never invited me. He replied saying that they didn't have to, I was always automatically invited and always welcome. Bottom line, when you see a group doing something that you normally wouldn't, ask them if you can join in, they will say yes.

Jeff.

I think you made a very wise decision here.

I do have some insight and I am going to send you a phone number via PM. Call it. I will not say anymore than that as it was Your Thread and has taken a left turn.

For the rest of the crap that has been going on, PM or keep it Brotherly.

I just purviewed this whole thread today for the first time.
In my opinion, the crap talking should stop because you guys are both grown men and have very different opinions. Also, you don't know one another and are assuming way too many things about each other.

As for this thread, I think it is interesting and some people might want to read about Jeff's situation and they can learn about things other chapters do.

I have never heard about holding someone over and some of the terms you guys are using. I feel for Jeff because I have been in the same situation as him. My fresh year I never really hung around because I was focused on school and I was almost black balled because of it (I did not know this until my soph year). I was very popular but I partied too much in high school and made sure academics came first in college.
Luckily, I was not blackballed but I did not have the easiest associate experience because I did not get to know the brothers. My advice for you Jeff is you need to participate in more social activities and get to know the brothers better because it sounds like you are not doing that. This does not mean go drinking or getting crunk with them but this means doing social activities with them such as: playing sports, watching movies, going to a concert and so forth. Social life is very important with fraternities and it is what you will be spending the majority of your time doing with your fraternity brothers, your brothers should be able to see the social side of you.

At the same time, its great to really care about the fraternity and show an intense passion as an associate, I really admire that. You should definitely stick with it because you will gain leadership experience and learn about a great fraternity. Like I said, stick with it but do not be this chapters puppet, or have them keep screwing with you. I understand what GZ said because if my chapter did something like this, which we don't, that means they don't want you and you should get the hell out of there.

Also, Jeff you sound really indecisive and that could be a problem, you need to make a firm decision about your situation and stick with it. Obviously, it sounds like you want to stay and there is a chance all of this will work it, then so be it.

Overall, I definitely agree with some of the things GZ says, I have no clue about his chapters history or anything like that but he basically says what many people are afraid to say. This board is sometimes to optimistic and does not live in reality.
At the same time, I really like what the brother from Texas says, Lenoxxx. Sorry if I get your name wrong, but he knows his shit and should be respected because he has been in the fraternity much longer. Maybe other brothers can learn about different sides and perspectives related to Jeff's situation and form their own opinion about it. This board should be open to all members to say what they want but nobody should be insulted, lets save all the insults for a discussion about FIJI.

This Thread has been edited so some things may seem out of context. It was done for a very good reason.

It was not an individual decision, it was because the Co-Mod (LXAAlum) and I discussed it.

This was and is Jeffs Thread and not a bashing or inuendo Thread.

Thank your for your time and consideration!

Just Remember, We are all Brothers and while not agreeing with IHQ on some points, it is not need to harraunge on a subject on this Thread.:)

Also, most of us do not know about the inner workings of other Zetas.

All Ends Well
 

An update on everything, so yesterday at the softball game against Delta Chi (which I must admit, we demolished them so much that we got a mercy win against them), my Kappa took me aside and addressed the letter I sent him and pretty much got everything off my chest as did he and it went really well! :)

So, I'll be definately here for next year.. the brothers were really impressed I showed up Tuesday for the softball game (after the vote and everything took place) so, all is good.

Thanks for everyone's advice!

Jeff

Re: All Ends Well
 

By showing up for the game after the vote you not only showed your commitment and dedication, but demonstrated your maturity and class (being able to rise above any hurt feelings you may have had)... plus as a bonus you where able to talk things out face to face, which I assumed helped both you and the guys understand where things now stand... Good Luck! :D

PS> If you ever want to understand exactly what went on vote wise - check out the Statutory Code regarding voting - interesting read, and it should show you that they guys still wanted you (considering all the parliamentary procedures involved).

Jeff, thank you for showing not only Us, but the Members of The Zeta that you have the fortitude of your convictions and caring of LXA and the Members of The Chapter.

As Brother Cooper said, You showed Your self in their eyes as a Associate Member who is willing to go the whole Mile to be a Member.

I am sure along with myself and all of the Brothers on GC wish every thing of good wishes for the time that We may be able to Call You Our Brother!

Remember, We are all here to be of aid and service for you. That is what LXA is all about.:cool:

and I don't know about anyone else, but I am gonna try my best to make it out to Vegas for his iniaition!!!

As will I
 

A road trip is definitely in order.