Theo Van Gogh, the Dutch Filmmaker Who Criticized Islam, Slain in Amsterdam
 

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=218066

Dutch Filmmaker Theo Van Gogh Murdered

Nov 2, 7:30 AM (ET)

By TOBY STERLING

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands Nov 2, 2004 — A Dutch filmmaker who had received death threats after releasing a movie criticizing the treatment of women under Islam was slain in Amsterdam on Tuesday, police said.

A suspect, a 26-year-old man with dual Dutch-Moroccan nationality, was arrested after a shootout with officers that left him wounded, police said.

Filmmaker Theo van Gogh had been threatened after the August airing of the movie "Submission," which he made with a right-wing Dutch politician who had renounced the Islamic faith of her birth. Van Gogh had received police protection after its release.

Dutch national broadcaster NOS and other media reported that Van Gogh's killer shot and stabbed his victim and left a note on his body. NOS said witnesses described the attacker as having an "Arab appearance."

A witness who lives in the neighborhood heard six shots, and saw the man concealing a gun. She said he walked away slowly, spoke to someone at the edge of the park, and then ran.

"He was walking slowly, like he was trying to be cool," she said, describing him as wearing a long beard and Islamic garb. "He was either an Arabic man or someone disguised as a Muslim," she said.

Another witness told Dutch Radio 1 the killer arrived by bicycle and shot Van Gogh as he got out of a car. "He fell backward on the bicycle path and just laid there. The shooter stayed next to him and waited. Waited to make sure he was dead."

The slain filmmaker was the great grandson of the brother of famous Dutch painter Vincent van Gogh, who was also named Theo. In a recent radio interview, Van Gogh dismissed the threats and called the movie "the best protection I could have. It's not something I worry about."

Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende called on the Dutch people to remain calm.

"Nothing is known about the motive," he said in a written statement. "I want to call on everyone not to jump to far-reaching conclusions. The facts must first be carefully weighed so let's allow the investigators to do their jobs."

Balkenende praised Van Gogh as a proponent of free speech who had "outspoken opinions."

"It would be unacceptable if a difference of opinion led to this brutal murder," he said.

Police spokesman Eric Vermeulen said the attacker fled to the nearby East Park, and was arrested after exchanging gunfire with police. Both the suspect and a policeman suffered minor injuries.

"They were conscious" when taken to hospital, Vermeulen said.

Van Gogh's killing immediately rekindled memories of the 2002 assassination of Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn who polarized the nation with his anti-immigration views and was shot to death days before national elections.

In addition to his film, van Gogh also wrote columns about Islam that were published on his Web site, www.theovangogh.nl, and Dutch newspaper Metro.

The short television film "Submission" aired on Dutch television in August, enraged the Muslim community in the Netherlands.

It told the fictional story of a Muslim woman forced into a violent marriage, raped by a relative and brutally punished for adultery.

The English-language film was scripted by a right-wing politician who years ago renounced the Islamic faith of her birth and now refers to herself as an "ex-Muslim."

Somali-born Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a member of the Dutch parliament, has repeatedly outraged fellow Muslims by criticizing Islamic customs and the failure of Muslim families to adopt Dutch ways.

The place of Muslim immigrants in Dutch society has long been a contentious issue in the Netherlands, where many right-wing politicians have pushed for tougher immigration laws and say Muslims already settled in the country must make a greater effort to assimilate.

Theo van Gogh, 47, has often come under criticism for his controversial movies. In December, his next movie "06-05," about the May 6, 2002 assassination of Pim Fortuyn, is scheduled to debut on the Internet.

-Rudey

Pim Fortuyn was a racist.

A) This is about Van Gogh, not Pim.

B) No matter if he is racist, it has no relation to whether he deserves to die. That is why the country was so upset. Pim was also gay I believe.

C) Van Gogh was murdered after making a film about women's rights in Islam with a Muslim woman.

-Rudey

Ok, hope they catch the perpetrator and bring him to justice. Nothing else to say.

Nov. 4, 2004 13:06 | Updated Nov. 4, 2004 13:31
8 Muslims arrested in Dutch filmmaker's killing
By ASSOCIATED PRESS

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands

Dutch prosecutors said police have arrested eight more suspected Islamic radicals as part of ongoing investigations into the brutal killing of outspoken Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh.

The arrests were made in the 24 hours following Van Gogh's slaying while he was cycling down an Amsterdam street, prosecution spokeswoman Dop Kruimel said Wednesday. These arrests are in addition to the arrest of the alleged killer, a 26-year-old Amsterdam resident of Moroccan origin.

Six of the most recent detainees are of Moroccan ancestry, one is Algerian and the last has dual Spanish-Moroccan nationality, Kruimel told The Associated Press. Kruimel said the suspects, whose identities were not released, were detained and released during an October 2003 investigation into a potential terrorist threat.

"They were previously known to us," Kruimel said. "As of now only one suspect is being held for Van Gogh's murder, but the investigation will determine if others may have been connected."

The Dutch have reacted with outrage to the killing of the celebrity filmmaker who criticized Islam, testing the nation's famed tolerance and straining already tense relations with the large Muslim immigrant population.

Mainstream Dutch Muslim groups condemned Tuesday's killing, which some experts are calling the first act of Islamic terrorism in the Netherlands.

A number of mosques were closed Tuesday night for fear of vandalism and political figures were given additional police protection.

The respected NRC Handelsblad reported that conservative politician Ayan Hirsi Ali, who wrote the script for Van Gogh's latest provocative movie criticizing the treatment of women under Islam, received a death threat in an e-mail Wednesday that read "You're next."

The Justice Ministry said the suspect in the murder of Theo van Gogh, is a Muslim radical associated with Islamic fundamentalists on a terrorist watch list. Authorities didn't release his name, but Dutch media identified him as Mohammed B.

Members of parliament called for an emergency debate on why the culprit, who police say had a record of violent crime, hadn't been stopped. "Is this a murder, or is this a terrorist attack?" said Jozias van Aartsen, leader of the conservative VVD party.

Van Gogh released a fictional film in August about the mistreatment of Muslim women who were shown naked with texts from the Quran scrawled on their bodies.

The killing of brash social commentator Van Gogh after the murder of populist anti-immigration politician Pim Fortuyn in 2002, drew outrage and fears that people will no longer dare to speak freely. Immigration minister Rita Verdonk told 20,000 Dutch who flocked to Amsterdam's central square for a noisy wake Tuesday night "we won't take this." Verdonk called an emergency meeting with leaders of Muslim groups to discuss how to avoid confrontations.

Interior Minister Johan Remkes confirmed that the suspect in Van Gogh's murder was known to have associated with a group of 150 radicals who are watched day and night by the Dutch secret service for fear they may commit a terrorist act. The Netherlands has arrested more than 40 terrorism suspects since Sept. 11, 2001, including many accused of providing logistical support for al-Qaida linked groups.

-Rudey

When I originally read about this, I thought this might be the act of a single deranged person.

But no.

This is the first time I'm reading about this. I personally couldn't care less if that dutch filmmaker was murdered or not. There's one thing to make a movie about muslim women being abused, and another to portray a naked women with the Koran written all over her body. ...all in the name of art, I guess.

However, a murder is a murder. And a terrorist attack is a terrorist attack. So I hope that justice does prevail.

Your first paragraph:
1) You don't care that he was murdered.
2) You seem to justify this by making some sort of reference to how it was desecrating the koran

Your second paragraph:
1) Murder is murder.
2) Terrorist attack is terrorist attack.

There was no need for the first paragraph really.

-Rudey

If you don't care that he was murdered, why even post? Why even read the thread?

There might be a few people who are interested in the world outside their little bubble.

I don't think thats the point Opi was making. Opi seemed to be implying that he/she didn't care about the murder because of the reasons why the film maker was killed.

He/she is being Chris Rockish: Given what the film maker did, Opi is not saying he would have killed him, but she understands why someone would. . .

Because it's called freedom of speech, dear.


James,

Im not a he-she.....I'm a she.


Rudey,

The first paragraph was an opinion.

This really shows your true colors, and what a despicable human being that you are.

What he said.

People who comment on world affairs without any real awareness, and then attempt to be patronizing when challenged, annoy me to no end.

Now now. She is entitles to a point of view and we should respect her for being honest, even though we don't agree with it

Also, making the attack personal is not appropriate. You could say that you believe that to be a despicable opinion instead, rather than generalizing it out.

What's up with the insult? What is my true colors, and why am I despicable?

My bad for not caring about a dutch filmmaker!


Maybe you think I am a despicable human being for other reasons not directly relating to what I said?

This made me laugh. You are passing judgement about my knowledge of world affairs because I just don't care about the film dutchmaker. Oh wait, I'm not supposed to say that right???

But hey, I don't think its right that he was killed..but thats for the law to deal with.

You seem to qualify this person's death by your religious extremism. That's great. I'm sure quite a few religious extremists that aren't Muslim would understand if someone killed you and then say they didn't care that you died.

Of course, this is all incredibly ridiculous and nobody should say those things. I'm actually amazed sometimes when people just make these comments. It's like you're thinking something deep down and let it out without thinking.

-Rudey

This story reminds me of Salman Rushdie when Ayatollah Khomeini issued a Fatwa against him because of his book Satanic Verses. A fatwa is an Islamic religious decree, but it has been used as a vehicle for militant Islamic fundamentalists to declare wars and death sentences on those who displease them.


I think that it's a tragedy that an artist can be murdered over his creation and a politician can be murdered for his opinions. This is a threat to freedom and justice everywhere. What's next? Will the extremists go after journalists who criticize them?

I'm surprised that you are calling me a religious extremist because I couldn't care less for that man for disrespecting my religion in the name of art. I'm sorry that you feel any muslim who is mildly offended by someone's work would be qualified as an "extremis"..or maybe people are so quick to use that word for a muslim everytime they say something that most people would not agree with. I do not justify that man's death, nor did I inference that in my previous posts. I pity simple-minded people like you really and phipsiruss. You go on other threads telling people they deserve to die...maybe you are an extremist yourself? mmmm but then again you are not muslim so....i guess not?


I just can't stand hipocrasy, that's all....

What's that?

Maybe it's a spelling error...


I meant to say hypocrisy. Do I have any more spelling errors in my posts? and since you're nitpicking, I guess that means you have nothing better to say.

Not everyone's first language is English..so maybe we can ease off on the arrogance?

Naaah, but it might be nicer for those that just want to nit pick grammar to offer to edit people's posts for them :)

You tried to justify it, because otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned his work. It's funny because you don't even know what it's about and you're busy attacking him.

Nobody said anything about any and all Muslims - I said something about YOU. It's funny, I came from a country of extremists and rejected it. It seems you've embraced it.

-Rudey

lol@embracing extremism.


you can call me an extremist, a radical, a fundamentalist, an "islamist", bla bla bla..but the fact still remains:

1) you don't know me
2) I couldn't give a shit about anyone who disrespects me
3) You are full of contradictions and hypocrisies
4) You will find any and every reason to call a muslim an extremist because they don't think the way you do. Maybe you have a past with them...who knows really. Get over it.

Keep trying to explain how you justified someone being murdered because they insulted Islam by talking about how women are oppressed.

-Rudey

So is the Muslim who was offended by this guy's art and killed him an extremist?

I'm not trying to pull the oppressed Christian card, because i really don't like to do that, but think about how often Christianity is degraded for the sake of art. Paintings of the Virgin Mary consisting of feces, performance artists urinating into jars then dropping crucifixes into them, plays and other artwork mocking Christ's life or portraying him as homosexual, etc. I'm sure that Rudey could expound on the times that the Jewish faith has been mocked as well in the name of art.

The difference is that those artists aren't murdered in cold blood, then have their murders written off as, "well, that's what he gets".

It is refreshing to see the mainstream Islamic groups condemning the killing though.

KS 361 times i'm ashamed of radical Christians that kill abortion doctors and would be more ashamed of ones that kill artists.

right. assuming of course that I justified his murder.

Ok here is the thing though. Did I say anywhere in my previous posts that he deserved what he got? I don't think so...Did I say his life is worth less than another human being? I don't think so..but here is the thing, the law is supposed to deal with lunatics who kill other people. I believe in justice and all that good stuff. If you want to go into condeming the murder, well that's a whole other story. Here is what I said on my first post: "However, a murder is a murder. And a terrorist attack is a terrorist attack. So I hope that justice does prevail."

I on the other hand will not mourn for that man because he is an artist and a van gogh. and if that makes me an extremist...then the boundaries for that word has just been widened, and I'm sure many people will fall under that category.

If I was a christian and someone depicted Mary as you described, hell yeah I would be offended. I still wouldn't pick up a weapon to kill that artist.

As for the person who did kill that man, he would be an extremist.

If you didn't care, why did you post? Please tell me why.

Nobody said you should care because he was a film maker or a Van Gogh. You should care because someone was murdered by a terrorist. And if you don't care, don't post! Why post to say you don't care?!? Oh hey well you also justify his murder so hmmm....

So you say that it was a murder and a terrorist attack but also say that you don't care and also try to justify it because he talked about women's roles in Islam.

Perhaps you should stop making such awful comments and concentrate on how you want to get into a sorority.

-Rudey

Pretty much. I dont like his choice of .....art. And don't even think about going off about how I don't care about women's rights in Islam...because you will not win that fight.

digressing from the issue means that you obviously don't have a better comeback. Its okay rudey, maybe next time. How about I make you a deal...when you stop posting awful comments, ...I'll stop

;)

His art? His art was making a film with a Muslim woman about how women are treated in Islam. Get over it.

Really, keep justifying terrorism and saying you don't care, even though it's murder and terrorism.

-Rudey

Do you care? I mean, it seems like you're saying here that you are big into that issue . . . and so I feel like an artistic representation of the negative issues may be ok. What exactly are the problems you have with it, then?




I'll make you a deal: address kitso's (very solid) post in a manner that doesn't avoid the question, and I'll high-five you. ;) :o :p :cool:

unfortunately, terrorist groups in the Netherlands have used this killing as a way to start a wave of terror against innocent Muslims in the Netherlands. There are reports of these terrorist groups planting bombs in mosque and Islamic school.

It is awful and totally inexcusable.

Europe has a problem on its hands with being able to integrate its Muslim population. There is a good balance between freedom and kindness and totally looking the other way. It seems now that the balance is shot.

In case anyone wants to know, the bombing happened at a school where the doors were blown off and damage was done to the inside. The school was operated by Al Fourqaan mosque/center. Al Fourqaan was linked to 2 men who went on to be terrorists in Kashmir and also to 2 of the 9/11 terrorists. More on that can be found here.

-Rudey

RC,

If you read my post again, you will find that I did address his question directly:

His question: my answer: "As for the person who did kill that man, he would be an extremist"

Can I get a high 5?



I'm very big on women's rights. And that issue that I have is the method he used in showing the violations of women's rights that I was offended by. Naked women with the holy scripture written on them in a mosque is really not the way to address such an issue. To me, the word of God (in the Koran) is so revered that another book (non-Koran) can not be placed on top of it. So for him to write it on someone is a turn off, even for a "moderate" muslim. That is my problem, not his "message". To add insult to the injury, its fictional, and not based on any past occurance.




Rudey, keep manipulating my words , but don't think I will call you out on it. I did not justify terrorism, I justified me not liking the dude. what part of that don't you understand?

And is it just me who finds your signiture very very hypocritical? ...


--- just another extremist

No honestly we got your message. You understand why he was killed (justifying terrorism), admit it was terrorism, and say you don't care (you posted to tell us you don't care...something is wrong there).

Oh and by the way did you see the film? You keep attacking the film now huh? You got bored with saying you don't care and now you're on your justifying terrorism in the name of Islam binge huh? OK.

-Rudey

Here is what you also said in your first post:

"This is the first time I'm reading about this. I personally couldn't care less if that dutch filmmaker was murdered or not. There's one thing to make a movie about muslim women being abused, and another to portray a naked women with the Koran written all over her body. ...all in the name of art, I guess."

This statement tacitly implies that he did, in fact, deserve what he got, in your opinion. If you want me to break down connotation vs. denotation here, I will, b/c I realize English isn't your first language, but it is hard for me to believe that this paragraph isn't dismissive of his death as being something he earned through disrespectful action, and that you'll write off his despicable actions as 'all in the name of art, I guess' . . .

Interesting - now we must draw a line in the sand, the man doing the shooting is the extremist . . . how about the organization that he is a part of? What about the community that fosters these organizations? And finally, how about the person who tacitly approves of his death, but not of the killer? Definitely not for me to say, but it's akin to the classic koan . . . how many grains of sand are a pile? one? two?

This inconsistency (that might not be the correct word, perhaps i mean "disconnect") is my problem with your response - you're perfectly willing to call the man an extremist (which he was, I'd say), but when confronted with your own statements you twist them into something they are obviously not. Face up to it, address it directly (as kitso did), and we all move on - otherwise, it's pissing at the rain, and it's a bit strange to watch. I'm not saying you are an extremist - just saying to run with your feelings, even if we don't agree, even if people react harshly, b/c otherwise it's hard to take the thread seriously at all.

And finally - high five!

See here is what I figured. From here on out, I know that I will have my posts dissected into itty bitty pieces. In my first post, I really wasn't thinking about that. My fault, My bad.

I will break it down for you, RC. No more pissing in the rain.

Van Gogh, a controversial artist is murdered. I say I do not care for this man, my day has not changed, because he insulted my religion. You imply that the lunatic who killed him is justified in doing so. What I actually said was a crime is a crime and justice should prevail (I mean justice for that specific country in which the crime i committed). You say I believe his death is justified. I did not in fact make such statement, nor imply, but you can take it as an implication even though you would be wrong if you did. You then go on and on about who is responsible for this death..the community, the terror org, or the entire religion for being so vunerable to manipulation. Well, I say that this conversation is taking a different direction than my first statement. Which has nothing to do with terrorist, and accountability for the murder, or the valuableness of one's life. You can make all the assumptions you can about what I have said previously......but that's all that it will ever be..assumptions. Not convincing enough, even after connatations and detonations.

I understand that hypocrisy runs very deep in GC News and Politics..and that my posts will be subjected to manipulations to fit someone's (perhaps Rudey...or Russ) predesposed prejudices. That's fine. I could not care less.

lol and Thnx for that high five and that very long post.

Right. Keep trying to explain how you justify terrorism and then insult others.

-Rudey
--That's the reason why you're not in a sorority and just hang around Greekchat.

I'm really not being a dick here, buddy, I'm pointing out that your somewhat bizarre initial reactions (and later non sequitur defense) have helped to derail the thread into that different direction you mentioned.

I'm not picking your post apart unnecessarily, unless you'd only like some of our words to count.

Again - I'm not insulting you, or jacking w/ you needlessly, nor do I want to question the valueableness[sic, for laughs] of your input . . . I'm making a point. Do you see it?