Any Advice??!!
 

This is a long story.

I went to high school with this guy and we had some of the same classes together, but were not into each other like that. He was more like a classmate. We would speak to each other and have conversations, but when school was over, that was it.

Skip to 3 months ago, we saw each other again in a local bar and exchanged phone numbers. Soon after that, we started dating and about a week ago, things were getting kinda hot and heavy. We went almost everywhere together and did a lot of stuff. The movies, walks in the park, long hours on the phone til the wee hours of the morning, out to dinner. I mean you name it, we did it. He would bring me ginger ale for my upset stomach and flowers to make me feel better.

Last night, we started a conversation about kids and things got ugly. He is VERY ADAMANT about NOT wanting kids ever!!!! He's 23 yrs old and basically told me that he doesn't see his life with kids in the future. I on the other hand want kids at some point in my life. Today, we broke up. He feel very strongly about his side and I about my side. He says that "there is no compromise" and I said "if that's the way you feel and you are not going to change your mind, what do we do?"

Why was this such a big deal to him? I don't know. I felt that there were underlining problems there, but couldn't get to them because he wouldn't answer my question when I would ask. How could he just walk away after what we had and the possibility of something special? He says he would rather walk away now than to invest 3 or 4 yrs to encounter the same problem.

Before this conversation, things were going great. He told me that he loved me and we even have tickets to the Best of Both Worlds Tour with floor seats that we were excited about. We had a vacation planned for next month that I just called to cancel. I mean my heart is in shambles. The moments that we've shared and the way that we felt about each other was so special.

I just don't understand. I wanted to this to work out, but I can't do it alone. Help me mend a broken heart!

Q

I'm really sorry to hear that you're hurt and upset right now, but I really think this is for the best.

Wanting or not wanting kids is absolutely not something to compromise on ever. It's also not fair to get into a relationship with someone and expect that he'll change his mind eventually, or for him to expect that you'd change your mind eventually.

I am very, very set on the fact that I do not want kids ever and will not change my mind, so if I ever started dating a guy and found out that he wanted kids, I'd break it off right away. It's too big of a life issue to get past disagreement, in my opinion.

I agree with valkyrie.

I am very sorry that your feelings are hurt. :(

I echo what everyone else says and add my own advice:

Cece, trust me.....although it was sudden, shocking, probably rude, and just a bad situation.....it was for the best. He wasn't the one for you....he sucks. :mad: I am mad for you. But also, being the victim of people who suddenly change their mind about me (multiple times) I can just say keep on truckin. You'll find the right one!

Re: Any Advice??!!
 

Well, look at it this way.....do you want to be with someone who doesnt want kids? Would you compromise with someone who didnt want kids ever? Honestly, do you really think you're worse off ending it now rather actually spending 3 or 4 yrs together and THEN finding out? No, you wouldn't. Why? Because both of you would be hurt even more.

Now, the only other possibility why he would have blown up like that would be if he just didnt want to date you anymore and was using that as a safe cop-out....knowing that that was a perfect way to get out of a relationship he doesnt want to be in anymore. Some guys do this.

Either way....count yourself lucky and brush if off. There's another person out there.

Thanks!
 

Thank you all for your kind words. When I posted this thread I wasn't thinking at all because I was torn apart. I know that it was for the best, but my feelings are still hurt. I feel like I was given a piece of heaven on earth and then it was all of a sudden taken away. He wasn't rude about it in any way. It was the right thing to do and I wouldn't compromise wanting kids either. We went over it again and again and there was just no other way. We came to the decision to end things last night and I have been crying ever since.

Anyway, you guys are right....someone is out there for me who will treat me with all love and respect that he had and will want kids one day.

Time will heal all wounds and I will have to wait it out.

Thanks again!

Q

Re: Thanks!
 

No problem.

Don't be shocked that he comes back to you saying that he's sorry about how things went down between you two.

The question is, how are you going to deal with it?

Another question: At 23 years old, for a man to say adamantly, he NEVER EVER wants kids with NO compromise, what will he do if he gets a woman pregnant?

If he NEVER EVER wants kids, then he needs to get a vasectomy... That will be the ONLY way he can ensure that he will NEVER EVER reproduce and have his haploid spermatogenetic DNA homologously recombine naturally with any woman's ovarian DNA for fertilization and placental implantation...

Otherwise, I find it rather odd for him to say anything like that to a woman he is dating. And for him to break up with you because you have those kinds of thoughts is petty and you are better off without him.

I think the best thing he said to you is he rather not waste his time knowing what you know about him now and continue on dating even though you know you cannot change his mind about "his life's decision"...

But another truism in this, that dating you and the way you describe your relationship has changed his life in someway, which inherently affects some aspect of his life's decisions--leading one to think that in some way the anger he spewed was your relationship was at some level thought provoking enough for him to quasi-reconsider some positions...

So, don't be surprised when he calls you to see how you are doing and try to get back with you...

Another question is: what have you learned about yourself that you can take from this past relationship and move on to the next one? Or will you move on?

I sent you a PM because I was a little confused, but to answer the other questions....

He said that if he ever got a woman pregnant, he would "man up" and take care of his responsibilities, but he wouldn't be happy about it at first.

I haven't quite gotten that far with what I have learned yet. I guess I can say that I am still in shock. I will eventually move on because he is not the only man on the earth. I mean the pain is still fresh, but at least I know that I am not alone in this.

Another thing is, you bring up a valid point about him not wanting to continue to date me. My goal was not to change his mind, but to enjoy the time that we had together because I thought we enjoyed each other's company. I guess I was wrong and I just wasted the last 3 months thinking the wrong thing. Oh well, everything happens for a reason. I do believe that there is more to the reason he broke up with me, but I don't know what it is.

Thinking about it makes me nauseous. I need to chill before I get angry because I fear that is the next stage.

One more thing....its funny that you say he will contact me to see how I was doing because as I type this reply I noticed that he sent me a text message asking me how I was doing and how concerned he is about me. I don't think I'm going to answer because I don't think he deserves to know. I need to get away from him and thinking about him and I can't do that with him calling and texting me.

:( :( :( Just trying to make it to a sound mind again.

Thanks!
Q

Let me be blunt:

I am sorry, but from my life's experiences, children are not just "responsibilities" to be fulfilled... They are waaay more than that. Irregardless of the maritial status, a baby on the way--especially an unwanted pregnancy--makes folks do many things--even change their whole attitude about life in general... I've seen it done numerous times...


Of course, you NEVER want to change your love's mind--that is called manipulation. It is a pity, he only is beginning to realize about enjoying your company...

And don't think of it as wasted time... I've been there, done that... Think of it as a love-lesson and move from there--a spiritual quest in this life to expand your understanding about yourself and your interaction with others... Should you really feel bad because you loved and you made yourself vunerable???

Now here come the introspection and self preservation... This situation calls into question how well do you trust and know yourself? If you love all that you are and open enough to expand your boundaries to whatever is possible, then you would need to decide that whatever your love's problems with who he is and what he's all about--you can choose to deal with them or you can choose not...

The fact that he is "text messaging" you is maybe his way of apologizing for how he ended it.

Maybe he is trying to reconnect with you... Maybe he's not...

Either way, you need to decide if it has ended for yourself--of course on your own time when you feel up to it... If you do not want to speak to him now, fine. But is some way, you will have to speak to him...

So do you want to be as ignorant as he was to dump you and yell and scream at him?

Or will you respond in loving-kindness?

I say if he is trying to contact you, be open to it. Don't get angry or yell.... It is possible for you two to end things and still be close and care about each other.

I also don't think this means that it is over for you two for good. I have found that what you think at this age will SO often change. When I think back about the things I was ADAMANTLY CERTAIN about 2 years ago.... :rolleyes: I'm not saying that you would or should ever try to change him. What I AM saying is that he should NEVER SAY NEVER. He may be certain now that he never wants kids. But, someday he will find a woman who will mean more to him than anything (and this could be you). At that point, I think there is a very good chance that he will realize that his life is not complete without this woman and children of their own. I have seen and heard it before.

So, I guess my advice is don't expect that to happen, but DO talk to him in a civilized manner. You two obviously still care about each other, don't throw away that friendship because right now you want different things for the future.

P.S. This post might not make much sense cause I was writing it really fast. :p

You may have seen and heard it, but that doesn't mean it's always true. There is nothing more frustrating than hearing "Oh you'll change your mind" or "You'll want a baby once you meet the right person" when you know you don't want kids. There are people who didn't want kids when they were 23 and still don't want them a decade later, just as there are people who have met the person who means more than anything and still don't want kids. If anyone gets into a relationship expecting someone to change his/her mind on this issue, she's more likely than not heading toward disappointment and anger down the road. There are plenty of people out there whose lives are complete without having kids. Who's to say this guy isn't one of them? I don't think any of us know, and it's up to Queencece to decide if she can live with that.

Co-sign.

Let him go.

I'm just saying never say never. Some people don't change their minds, some people do.

I suggest not throwing the relationship away completely. If she really cares about the guy and he really cares about her, then they could at least have a very meaningful friendship. That is definately possible to have even with those different views on family. :)

I'd dump a guy if wouldnt let me name our daughter Elizabeth.

Theres no compromise here.

Ha!

I see what you're saying. I personally would be worried about making a big emotional investment in someone knowing that there's a good chance we'd get to a point in the future where there would be no way to work out our differences on an issue. I'm kind of odd though (ha!) in that I have a pretty large list of deal-breakers that would cause me to not get involved with someone who might be really cool but doesn't meet my mad crazy specifications. :)

Her point though is that here, the emotional investment would be totally unrelated to kids, since the relationship is no longer a sexual/long-term type one, but rather one of friendship . . . this conveniently leaves what some would describe as a girl's dream situation intact, whereby he realizes how dumb he is and falls all over her feet, changes his mind, and decides to have kids - but we'll ignore that for now, and pretend like "just friends" is the real goal.

Update.....
 

He called me last night and wanted to get back with me. At first I said no way because there is not going to be a second chance to break my heart. Then, he said that he would rather talk in person before I made up my mind. So, tonight @ 7pm he is picking me up and taking me to my favorite place (park) to talk and see what we can come up with.

Before I made the decision to see him I politely asked him what he wanted from me and why he couldn't just leave me alone. Basically, I was lashing out from being hurt. He asked me if we could work this out. I said, how when you were ADAMANTLY sure that there was no compromise and/or other way to solve this problem. He said, my mind can change. I was like, how? Did you suddenly realize that you were a JERK? That's when he asked to see me before I just walked away.

I went into work to talk to a guy that has helped me in the past with the way guys think. He says that one of two things are running through his mind. One, he really is serious and thought about maybe having kids in the future or AT LEAST is open to the possibility OR that he is going to tell me what I want to hear just to temporarily fix things.

To the guys: Is the last sentence true? Do you all say things to girls just so that they will stop fussin about whatever you said/did?

I don't know what's going to happen, but I will hear him out. I will talk to him rationally and calmly.

Thank you for all your viewpoints.
Q

Re: Update.....
 

Far be it from me in how a guy thinks, because I am a woman...

But your friend is right about your love's 2 things running thru his mind... And it is not one or the other--it's both.

Some people like to have their cake and eat it too...

Now you have to ask yourself do you want "it" to work out with this particular guy? Because apparently you do by going out with him tonight... I'd say have an open mind. Have expectations of yourself--how you expect to be treated and respected. How you expect to treat him and respect him.

And I am not feeling such a private place that you all shared when you all were fancy free and dating. That is somewhat a "borderline" mind game that is about to get played... But that's my opinion... However, in most serious discussions, there will be times that it might get heated, so please let a friend or somebody you can always trust know where you are and when you are expected home--a park can be isolating... And my opinion is, (and I admit, I could be wrong), he dumped you showing you how his lack of trustworthiness--and he has lost his "regaining trust back" with you by asking you to take you that "special place" to discuss anything... But that's my opinion...

Every girl needs a guy friend to decode. :) Seems like your guy friend was right.. So what happened?

So many women spend too much time trying to change a guy.. He said he didnt want kids ever, so you have to take him at his word for now.

Thanks Rob, but I really DID mean an actual friendship. I'm not talking about hoping he will change his mind. I really am merely meaning that it is better to have that friendship with someone than nothing at all. :)

Update Again....
 

We went out and nothing felt like it "normally" did. I mean he was trying everything to get back with me. Bought me flowers (I have a thing ofr blue roses which I don't think exist) but he bought some fake ones and some white roses and gave them to me. Then, when we got to the park things were okay, but still not quite the way it was suppose to be. We argued and got loud and finally, after some hours just decided that this wasn't going like either of us had hoped.

The night ended with a mutual agreement to just go our separate ways. He drove me home and I got out of the car with the flowers still in the back seat. All I had to say to him was "bye". Then, I noticed that he didn't pull off right away, so I looked out there from my porch thinking something was wrong. He called me back to the car to give me the flowers and to say that he was sorry. I stood there for at least 5 minutes in silence. He said, say something. I said, what is there left to say and I left.

Moral of the story is: Listen to your instincts. Had I gone with the initial feeling that something wasn't quite right before we even left my house, I would be much happier. However, at least I have some closure so that I could move on.

Q

IT was nice of him to set-himself up so that you could get revenge and closure.

ITs such a wierd situation. Here you are in relationship bliss and all of a suden children come up and thats it.

I am trying to picture a rational conversation about that.

He says, " I don't want children" And you respond, "ok." Because you respect his ability to make a decisiion as an adult.

And then he suddenly flips-out on you and starts a big fight about how he is not going to have kids, even though you jut rationally agreed that it was his right to make up his mind and not be questioned.

That doesn't make sense. It sounds like you questioned him about in a way that sparked an argument . And that you ended up breaking up more because you picked a fight with him than the actual content of the argument.

Then he realized as he cooled down that he still liked you and all, and maybe he over reacted by letting the relationship end because of that heated fight you provoked.

So, he sets out to kiss your ass and try to get you back. And you are all mad and defensive because you think he is a jerk and you're hurt and want him to suffer.

So you give him attitude while he tries to win you back until he gets frustrated and you provoke another argument.

Which is really not fair because most guys are not good enough at dialogue to talk their way past anger nd defensiveness, even if they want to bother.

But you get to feel a little bit better because you got to vent at him. Closure after a fashion.

So what now?

You barely knew him in high school and dated him for barely 3 months. Dudes probably rent hookers in Tijuana for longer than that.

-Rudey
--This ain't the end of your world, nor is it a sorrow most of us would care to share in.

When I was 23, the thought of having children repulsed me. As I am closing in on this decade of my life though, my mind is beginning to change. So many people have said some insightful things in this discussion. Bottom line, making a relationship work takes hard work and overall, MATURITY. It doesn't happen overnight either. It is good to have our beliefs, goals and values out on the table in the beginning of a relationship though. If you strongly want to have kids one day and he is not open to having them when the time is right (or even unexpectedly because as we all know children often are "surprises") then I suggest he is not the one either. I used to date a guy for 6 months who treated me well enough but said from day one, he never wanted to get married, nor have children. His girlfriend before me he dated for 4 years and while they are still terrific friends, he told me they broke up because he didn't want to get married and have kids. I thought at the time that he "just hadn't met the one" but as the relationship progressed, I realized that him and I both were not meant to be together. When it ended, one of my friends pointed out to me that he had been completely honest with me from the beginning that he never wanted anything TOO SERIOUS but I got all caught up in the romantic aspects of the relationship. I think as females we often tend to over-analyze things way too much with the boys, but I always say first and foremost, go with your gut, which it appears you have done. It will never steer you in the wrong direction.

3 months............remember that in any relationship, the first 3 months are only "the honeymoon phase"..............you are only beginning to get to know people then.

Nice recap.

I don't know what happens next. I guess I take it one day at a time and move on.

To Rudey: I knew him well in high school. I just never thought of him as dating material until now.

Q

Listen it's time for you to smoke some dope I think and relax. You burn a couple joints and play some of that hippy music and before you know it, you'll forget about this and probably go around telling everyone to vote for Nader.

-Rudey

Actually. What I meant is that it appears that your own self destructiveness killed the relationship.

There is no reason for the kids conversation to result in a fight. What were you thinking?

And why would you give him attitude showing your hurt and defensiveness when he is coming back and trying to have a sincere dialogue?

How does that help at alll? The scorched earth tactic in relationships is neither useful nor mature.

I think what AKA_Monet was alluding at the end of her post was wondering how mature you could be under pressure.

Whether you controlled your emotions or they controlled you, and whether or not if you were upset you could effectively behave and reason as if you were not.

This situation is not indicative of a failure of your relationship, or even of him, but rather your emotional control.

So it might be to his benefit that you revealed yourself to be easily moved to anger and bitterness over small matters.

At least thats what his friends should be telling him.

Maybe you should call and apologize.

I'm not going to call and apologize for anything because I didn't start this mess. When I told him that we should go our separate ways because of the "fight" over the wanting kids, he agreed and that was the end of it.

Now, I may be emotional because he said to me that he didn't want to invest time with me because we wanted separate things out of life. I may have reacted out of anger, but that was not to him. I didn't have an attitude until Friday night when we went out for one reason which is because he would be lying to me just to appease me because I know he wanted me back. He would be trying to say anything to accomplish that goal.

I'm sorry, but once I detect BULL I don't just let it slide. He was lying to me and I could tell. The relationship ended because he wasn't ready to grow up and/or face the fact that kids (which he did not want) would be coming up in the future. He said this out of his own mouth.

Anyway, I'm not going to sit around and wait for him to get it together and when he does realize that he needs to grow up regardless and wants to come back to me, it will be WAY TOO LATE!!!! I am better off without him!

And one more thing: He has the same temperment that I do when it comes to certain things. If anyone got loud, it was him being loud with me because he started this whole mess and his usual antics were not working so he was frustrated.

Q

Q
 

Now James, you know as well as I, that according to this young lady's description, if we take it at "face value" and assume that what she is saying is accurate ('cuz there are always two sides to the story), that this young man she was seeing was hiding more than he was willing to allude to...

Most "experienced" folks tried to tell her to let it go... She has chosen not to...

So, as "experienced" folks who care, in a general sense, just have to watch this young lady go through whatever she has to go through to realize this young man and her are just not it...


I think both her responses and what happened is the "norm" for some people her age... Some of it is soooooo high school... Really...

What is the problem here is it sounds like this young man has something that happens to "adults"... And has a quasi-responsibility issue going on...

If it were me, now and not Queencece's age... I would want the full on facts... But right now, I am a "big girl" and can handle the facts--straight up, no chaser... I think that Queencece would have to determine is she is ready for the full on frontal assault if she continually pursues this matter...

James and Rudey
 

Queencece~~~

Do not take these young men's advice lightly... They do know some things about life and relationships... And if you detailed to them exactly what is going on, they probably could call it just like I called it...

James' way is more blunt that most fellow's on the board with relationships... But he is usually on point in that regard... And I think he has some training in the field of relationships...

Rudey provides some comic relief to make you feel better about your situation... It is just his way... If you read what he writes, then laugh, you will find he pegged you and your situation pretty accurately... It is just his humorous good nature about him... And really, he's a big pushover, soft, warm-hearted teddy bear when it comes to this sort of thing ;) :) So, just go with the flow...

Just like others are telling you--get out while you can...

Really, you have only invested a small piece of your heart... And it really wasn't stomped on and crapped all over... And the guy is letting you off--easy... But, if you let him keep playing you, then that just goes to show you, that your are his "playgirl"... And not the real deal...

I seriously doubt you are the "real deal" girl--or the Sunday girl he takes to Church (as my folks say)... And I KNOW he is probably playing you big time... That is what dudes do, after you curse they asses out for evading, lying or catching them on crap they know they did to you was wrong... Period...

Get out while you can...

Like I said before.....
 

After Friday night, it was over! I was just trying to make sense of it. I no longer care, so I'm moving on.....

Q