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BabyP 08-19-2004 04:42 AM

Family Expectations
 
ARGGHHHHHH!!! My mom told my family back home that I have a serious boyfriend and she will be a young grandmother and they were talking about weddings and whether or not to do it here or there, etc. Right before she told them, she asked me if she should tell them i told her NO. but she did anyways cuz they were showing off that one of my second cousin is having an engagement party in a few weeks and blah blah....... so my mom wanted to show off. True me and my man do talk about weddings, but most couples do - that dont mean it will happen. I feel more pressure now!!! and the worst part is since my boyfriend is American he hasnt spoke with his family about marriage just that he is "serious" about me. Why does this matter? In our culture, the groom's family pay for wedding. Sometimes i feel like just breaking up with him to get rid of the pressure.

Taualumna 08-19-2004 11:07 AM

If you guys DO get married, I suggest that you two pay for the wedding! I come from a culture where the groom's side pays as well, but most people from my generation are paying (or going to pay) for themselves.

cashmoney 08-19-2004 11:59 AM

What are you? Mexican?

Jill1228 08-19-2004 01:22 PM

We paid for our own...

If you got family that are control freaks, foot the bill yourself!

My motto: OUR wedding, OUR way...you want then YOU pay!

Kevin 08-19-2004 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cashmoney
What are you? Mexican?
She's Iranian I think.

The Iranian culture from what I know of it (we're representing a few Iranians in family-law related cases) has a very close family unit. In America, we do have the custom that it's not just the bride and groom getting married, it's two families. Well, in Iran, they take it to a whole different level. They have very close family units and expect to have the same familial closeness with their in-laws.

And BabyP, I'm sure your mother is just very excited (maybe overly so) about becoming a grandmother someday. It's what parents do. I've just moved in with my gf and my parents have been pestering me to get married and start making grandkids. That just doesn't excite me right now :D

So you're not alone.

BabyP 08-19-2004 02:53 PM

Yes I am Iranian - KT is right, if the family dont like each other you cant be married cuz your family will become their family too. we do lots of socials, party, talk/call each other it's not like the American (no offense) where the family may see each other on christmas, thanksgiving, memorial day whatever holiday. We really really socialize with each other. parties always include them even though the married couple are not in the country! i have a few other aunts that live in France, they still invite the in laws for parties and cousins and everyone. Your second cousins and so on are treated as if they are your first. everyone is just cousins. this makes introduction confusing because you are wondering how the heck are they related to you.

By the way cashmoney, why did you think I was Mexican?

AKA_Monet 08-19-2004 07:28 PM

I have a question for you BabyP, are you also Muslim? Because a woman of the Muslim faith just told me that a woman is not allowed in the Mosque for weddings... That the Mosque is only used to worship Allah and nothing else. I apologize for my ignorance, but that what what I was told...

Anyhow, another woman who is Muslim said they had separate areas in the Mosque--the wedding was in SoCal--and that she was covered from head to toe. She said she would let me come to the religious event, but since there was some hesitation on her part, I chose not to go so that I would not offend her and her family since I am not part of her family and not Muslim... But what she described to me I thought it was kind of cool. :cool:

In some parts of America, some ethnic groups do believe in full on family involvement. It may vary from culture to culture on the roles. But there is huge family involvement and who pays for the wedding.

I have attended many an African American weddings and seen many things... There are comments on that at the NPHC organizational boards.

I have attended a Vietnamese wedding that was truly interesting...

A partial South Indian wedding--it was a biracial--or bi-ethnic wedding... But most of the the activities were South Indian heritage--like the Thali... Beautifully clothed wedding... Just beautiful...

I have attended a Catholic Mass wedding...

I have attenede a Vegas wedding... No Elvis though...

I have attended the American Wedding that you see all on TV and in the magazines

Never attended at Jewish wedding, an full on African wedding, a Middle Easterner wedding, a Russian wedding and a Native American wedding... And I have never done the Chicken Dance!!! :(

But, overtime, I will get to do all these things...

BabyP 08-20-2004 04:39 AM

Yes I am muslim - you cant get married in the mosque - that is correct. There is a seperate section for those who would like to but most marriage take at the home, we have special ceremony also its good at the home since it s only family (trust me our family unit is HUGE like two hundred on one side alone) and you are not covered for it. If you make it a public wedding then you will have to be covered unless you go to a seperate room for girls only. I have attended, Mexican Catholic wedding, Vietnamese, Persian, Cambodian, but I have seen tapes of the Indian, Pakinstani and Jewish wedding, they only invite family. but I am invited by two really good friends when they get married YAY!!

mu_agd 08-20-2004 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BabyP
and Jewish wedding, they only invite family.
this is not true. Friends are definitely invited to Jewish weddings if they two getting married want them there.

_Opi_ 08-20-2004 11:24 AM

AKAMonet,

I haven't actually heard of a wedding that took place in a mosque. But if it did, yeah the men and women sections would have to be divided (because it is religiously mandated). The women doesn't have to cover herself if she's around just women though, even in the mosque (but she still has to be conservative, because she's in the house of God). Adding to what BabyP said, it really just depends what culture you're from - you can keep it really traditional or not. It also depends on how moderate or conservative the family is when it comes to religion. In my African culture, even though majority of us are muslims, we tend to be a little bit more cultural than religious when it comes to weddings.

Rudey 08-20-2004 11:28 AM

A) I would say most Persians in America are Jewish - if not most than there is a HUGE proportion that are.
B) Hence most Persian weddings in America are for Jewish couples.
C) The weddings are rather westernized and on a grand scale.
D) The weddings definitely are usually not family members only as I've seen weddings with over a thousand guests.

-Rudey

AKA_Monet 08-20-2004 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by _Opi_
AKAMonet,

I haven't actually heard of a wedding that took place in a mosque. But if it did, yeah the men and women sections would have to be divided (because it is religiously mandated). The women doesn't have to cover herself if she's around just women though, even in the mosque (but she still has to be conservative, because she's in the house of God). Adding to what BabyP said, it really just depends what culture you're from - you can keep it really traditional or not. It also depends on how moderate or conservative the family is when it comes to religion. In my African culture, even though majority of us are muslims, we tend to be a little bit more cultural than religious when it comes to weddings.

Yeah, my friend who said she was married at the Mosque (I was unclear if it was the room of worship or another room--sorry for my ignorance), was from Cairo but attend Oxford University said she had the "traditional veil" that covers women of Arab descent??? She said it was is was like an "white" color with sequins and beautiful beads... I thought that the way she described her head covering was truly beautiful... I wish I had seen it...

But she said she would feel uncomfortable if I were to come... And so, since it was "her" day, I decided it best to congratulate her with all the other co-workers outside of her family's group...

But to me, it was interesting about the "separation" and the fact that Mosques are ONLY used to worship Allah... I just think that is cool... :cool: To me... That is my humble opinion...

No telling what happens in SOME people's Christian churches...:rolleyes: ;) :D

Optimist Prime 08-21-2004 04:32 AM

ther pressure isn't on you just him


listen to whatever KTsnake said.... I'm drunk

KappaKittyCat 08-23-2004 10:03 AM

Just out of curiosity, BabyP, is your boyfriend Muslim? If not, would he convert for you two to be married?

I wouldn't worry about your mother. It sounds like she's just excited. If the pressure really starts coming down for you guys to get married, then it's time to have a talk.

chideltjen 08-23-2004 01:39 PM

I quickly scanned this thread so if someone already mentioned this... sorry!

I took a class a couple semesters ago on Middle Eastern cultures and a good portion of it covered the Muslim religion.
My professor had mentioned that a Muslim woman couldn't marry a non-Muslim man, for fear that she would convert to his religion. But a Muslim man could marry a non-Muslim woman, so he could possibly convert her.

I thought it was an interesting point. May have nothing to do with this thread. Just thought I would share.

Carry on.

BabyP 08-23-2004 04:03 PM

no my man is not muslim - he is Danish/Porteguese like 4th or 5th generation American though. But he said if we do a wedding back home, he would be okay to have it the muslim way. but if we do it here it will be in a garden or in a church - by the way he is a CATHOLIC. I dont know why i end up dating many catholics. OH well, My family back home know he is "American" and they dont care as long as we have wedding back home too and he makes hella good money LOL...... Iran doesnt look down on interracial marriages. Yes technically a muslim woman cant marry a muslim man. A muslim man can marry anyone of the "book" like the bible, torah, etc. cuz they may convert or raise their children muslim. well catholics used to be prohibited to marry non catholic, just find a church or priest that would marry you. Some catholics church you pay them they dont care some require you to be baptised and do a little counseling, etc. But that is a bridge we will cross when we get into it. I am not going to convert into Catholicism. but there is no ring, no engagment or anything, so i think its too soon to talk about all this but unfortunately in ethnic cultures we have to make sure there is no clash cuz if there is then you have to cut the person loose cuz family/traditions/religion are more important (for me).

Taualumna 08-23-2004 05:22 PM

This has confused me a bit, BabyP, but did you grow up in the US? Because you keep on referring to "back home", which I'm now taking to mean the "old country". For me, I don't call Hong Kong "back home" because I was born and raised in Canada. I do call it the "old country" sometimes though. Anyway, if any Catholic priest has issues with an interfaith couple, you can probably try an Episcopal church. I don't know about the US Episcopal Church, but the Anglican Church of Canada does not require the couple to be Anglican (the US Episcopal Church is part of the Anglican Community). As long as one party is baptized, then it is ok. That means that a Catholic and a Jew can marry in an Anglican church if they choose to! High Anglican services can be very "catholic" too.

BabyP 08-27-2004 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taualumna
This has confused me a bit, BabyP, but did you grow up in the US? Because you keep on referring to "back home", which I'm now taking to mean the "old country". For me, I don't call Hong Kong "back home" because I was born and raised in Canada. I do call it the "old country" sometimes though. Anyway, if any Catholic priest has issues with an interfaith couple, you can probably try an Episcopal church. I don't know about the US Episcopal Church, but the Anglican Church of Canada does not require the couple to be Anglican (the US Episcopal Church is part of the Anglican Community). As long as one party is baptized, then it is ok. That means that a Catholic and a Jew can marry in an Anglican church if they choose to! High Anglican services can be very "catholic" too.
I was not born in US but I was raised mostly in Cali. I grew up in a strong cultural home and have that values and tradition instilled in me. Yes I am referring to my country as " back home". Its not really the church that is the issue. its the culture clashes.

_Opi_ 08-31-2004 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA_Monet




But to me, it was interesting about the "separation" and the fact that Mosques are ONLY used to worship Allah... I just think that is cool... :cool: To me... That is my humble opinion...

No telling what happens in SOME people's Christian churches...:rolleyes: ;) :D


Actually Monet, mosques can be used for community purposes as well. I guess even weddings.

chideltjen,

I don't think it says any where in the Koran or other holy book that a muslim man can influence a non-muslim woman into the religion. She can keep her religion (as long as its one of the religion of the books) and not convert. It depends on what sources your teacher used to come to his/her conclusions.

Contessima 09-01-2004 01:04 AM

catholic weddings
 
actually, interfaith marriages are certainly allowed in roman catholic weddings (since you didn't specify, I'm assuming that's what you meant?), perhaps it was different pre-Vatican II and that's maybe what you're thinking of?? But for the last few decades it is not required for the non- catholic to convert, be baptised, or anything --- however, all couples that get married in the catholic church (interfaith or not) are required to go through a sort of pre-marital counseling. And lots of non-catholic couples who aren't getting married in the church choose to attend some of these weekend retreats because counseling before you get married is just a good idea! And anyway, I know you will get married in your faith and all, but just for the sake of clarification, if you were wanting to get married in the catholic church but were running into difficulties with it being interfaith, being married in an Episcopal chuch is not the same thing! Catholics recognize marriage as a sacrament and every time a member receives a sacrament, they receive grace , an Anglican church or Episcopal church, though the ritual may look the same, is pretty different. :)

I don't mean to be a know it all, but I am experiencing a reaffirmation in my faith after rejecting it in high school. I tend to get overly excited. *Sorry!*

kddani 09-01-2004 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BabyP
have that values and tradition instilled in me.
I think this is an interesting example of newer generations of "stricter" (for lack of better word) religions/cultures being followed selectively by the newer generations to practice them (same can be said for my own faith- Catholicism). You speak of all of these values and traditions, but then your other posts in D&R are way off base with those values and traditions.

KSig RC 09-01-2004 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
I think this is an interesting example of newer generations of "stricter" (for lack of better word) religions/cultures being followed selectively by the newer generations to practice them (same can be said for my own faith- Catholicism). You speak of all of these values and traditions, but then your other posts in D&R are way off base with those values and traditions.
I didn't realize you were such an expert on BabyP's value and traditions.

kddani 09-01-2004 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC
I didn't realize you were such an expert on BabyP's value and traditions.
Never claimed to be an expert. But it's a very conservative culture. And BabyP doesn't come off as very conservative

Taualumna 09-01-2004 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
I think this is an interesting example of newer generations of "stricter" (for lack of better word) religions/cultures being followed selectively by the newer generations to practice them (same can be said for my own faith- Catholicism). You speak of all of these values and traditions, but then your other posts in D&R are way off base with those values and traditions.
I think a lot of first generation Americans or those who came at a very young age tend to live double lives. They are "American" at school or when they're with friends who are not from the "old country" and switch back to traditional values when they are home. My family isn't all that traditional, but I have certainly heard of people who are like that.

_Opi_ 09-01-2004 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taualumna
I think a lot of first generation Americans or those who came at a very young age tend to live double lives.

You stole the words right out of my mouth --well fingers.

:D

KSig RC 09-01-2004 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
Never claimed to be an expert. But it's a very conservative culture. And BabyP doesn't come off as very conservative

I'm not comfortable w/ making either of those observations, even from my ivory tower.

kddani 09-01-2004 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC
I'm not comfortable w/ making either of those observations, even from my ivory tower.
Well good for you

wrigley 09-01-2004 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taualumna
I think a lot of first generation Americans or those who came at a very young age tend to live double lives. They are "American" at school or when they're with friends who are not from the "old country" and switch back to traditional values when they are home. My family isn't all that traditional, but I have certainly heard of people who are like that.

Well said.

winneythepooh7 09-01-2004 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taualumna
I think a lot of first generation Americans or those who came at a very young age tend to live double lives. They are "American" at school or when they're with friends who are not from the "old country" and switch back to traditional values when they are home. My family isn't all that traditional, but I have certainly heard of people who are like that.
I agree. Also as "Americans" we often stereotype other cultural groups and think they do/do not have problems. The biggest reason for this is often because other cultures are "closed groups" and we don't see what happens behind "closed doors" in that particular community.

To start the fire going even more, I have friends, "for example" who live in "traditionally Jewish, conservative, affluent households". However, the teenagers have many issues when it comes to sexuality and experimentation. I started a thread related to this back in the spring about teens and young children having sex. I think culture, values, and personal choices & behaviors are completely different things. I also think certain people on GC are being overly critical and judgmental and they should step back and look at how their "behavior" and comments reflects upon THEM in a negative sense.

KSig RC 09-01-2004 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
Well good for you

ok - i'll go into slightly more detail:

1 - why did you even bring up this line of questioning, counselor? it seems like you're basically calling the poor girl a whore and insinuating that she doesn't live up to her cultural values, then trying to cover it up by saying "this seems common" - how banal. I really don't think it's completely appropriate to single her out for this, when one of the MAJOR themes of the dating/romance subforum is sex and gross sexuality. She's just 'playing the game' - but maybe not as well?

2 - You yourself said you know very little about her cultural background - we realistically know less about her actual life, so interpolating as we have from point number one seems a little intense, if not fallacious.



So yeah - not to be a dick, but I think you're out of line here dani. blah blah stones/glass houses blah blah, word up and take it easy.

-RC
--yeah sorta bored

kddani 09-01-2004 02:50 PM

Um, yeah, way to go overboard, you do have too much time on your hands. I did not call her any names, I did not say a SINGLE negative thing. I posed the thought that I found it interesting that she posts some quite racy threads, but when she posts about her culture it seems ultra conservative (i'm going by things that she has said). I may not be an expert on the culture, but to say it's conservative doesn't take much knowledge. I just found this to be an interesting example of a phenomenon in our generation. Not her culture specifically, not anyone's culture specifically. I've said it's even common in my own culture/religion.

Again, I did not say a single negative thing. YOU have twisted my words into something that I did not say or mean.

You're not exactly the king of nice, speaking of glass houses.

ETA: sorry for getting the thread off track. Not going to continue this argument, I've got class to go to. But I just wanted to explain further what I meant instead of a twisted interpretation of someone else

KSig RC 09-01-2004 03:09 PM

Nice try! there's no such thing as a king of nice! According to the internet . . .



Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
Um, yeah, way to go overboard, you do have too much time on your hands. I did not call her any names, I did not say a SINGLE negative thing. I posed the thought that I found it interesting that she posts some quite racy threads, but when she posts about her culture it seems ultra conservative (i'm going by things that she has said). I may not be an expert on the culture, but to say it's conservative doesn't take much knowledge. I just found this to be an interesting example of a phenomenon in our generation. Not her culture specifically, not anyone's culture specifically. I've said it's even common in my own culture/religion.

Again, I did not say a single negative thing. YOU have twisted my words into something that I did not say or mean.

You're not exactly the king of nice, speaking of glass houses.

ETA: sorry for getting the thread off track. Not going to continue this argument, I've got class to go to. But I just wanted to explain further what I meant instead of a twisted interpretation of someone else


valkyrie 09-01-2004 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
You speak of all of these values and traditions, but then your other posts in D&R are way off base with those values and traditions.
Even if one were to engage in a Scalia-like "strict interpretation" of this statement, I don't think it could be seen as anything but negative.

jharb 09-01-2004 04:56 PM

The racy threads are probably the antithesis of family expectations in my opinion, but I mean that in the nicest way possible. I know my parents would be like :eek: if I posted about sex on here or talked about it in front of them.

chideltjen 09-01-2004 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by _Opi_
chideltjen,

I don't think it says any where in the Koran or other holy book that a muslim man can influence a non-muslim woman into the religion. She can keep her religion (as long as its one of the religion of the books) and not convert. It depends on what sources your teacher used to come to his/her conclusions.

Now that I think about it, it seemed like more of my professor's reasoning. Or humble opinion. You are probably right about that not being an actual "rule."

GeekyPenguin 09-02-2004 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BabyP
no my man is not muslim - he is Danish/Porteguese like 4th or 5th generation American though. But he said if we do a wedding back home, he would be okay to have it the muslim way. but if we do it here it will be in a garden or in a church - by the way he is a CATHOLIC. I dont know why i end up dating many catholics. OH well, My family back home know he is "American" and they dont care as long as we have wedding back home too and he makes hella good money LOL...... Iran doesnt look down on interracial marriages. Yes technically a muslim woman cant marry a muslim man. A muslim man can marry anyone of the "book" like the bible, torah, etc. cuz they may convert or raise their children muslim. well catholics used to be prohibited to marry non catholic, just find a church or priest that would marry you. Some catholics church you pay them they dont care some require you to be baptised and do a little counseling, etc. But that is a bridge we will cross when we get into it. I am not going to convert into Catholicism. but there is no ring, no engagment or anything, so i think its too soon to talk about all this but unfortunately in ethnic cultures we have to make sure there is no clash cuz if there is then you have to cut the person loose cuz family/traditions/religion are more important (for me).
Catholics:

A) Can marry outside of their religion
B) Can marry outside of their religion in the church
C) Are required to attend pre-cana if they are getting married by a priest. Pre-cana varies from church to church.
D) Are sometimes required to pledge to raise any potential children as Catholic.


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