Another Weird Question
 

What happens to your affiliation with a frat/sorority if you undergo a sex change? I mean, if Joe Smith of XYZ frat decides to become Jane Smith, then would she lose affilation because she became a woman? (No, I am not considering a sex change. I'm happy being a girl!)

Your affiliation would probably find reasons to get rid of you.

I have no idea...but that's actually an interesting question!!

HAHAHAHAHA

...and they should :cool:

Our rules state that you must be male... so if you're not male, you're out.

I guess someone from the ACLU would ask:

"Does this person have to FEEL like a male or just have to PHYSICALLY BE a male."

So say, Joe has had the surgery and is now Jane. What happens then? She not only feels like a woman but is physically female as well. I guess the ACLU can say that Jane's still genetically male...hmmmmm

Edited to change ALCU to ACLU....Taualumna always has typos.

Calling all members of the SHIM's.....

lol.. the ACLU can think what they want..:D

I'd be VERY shocked if I ever heard legislation about transgendered members come up at our Grand Chapter. And allowing them... I can't ever see something like that passing.

Who knows though, I'll bet we could have said the same thing about non-whites 50 years ago.

I think it would be unbelievable that this could have NEVER happened before.

Out of all the millions of sorority and fraternity members.... SOMEONE'S had to have had a sex change.

What a story for your group's magazine that would be....... hehe.... i'm picturing the glossy lead story in the Angelos of KD.... oh boy what an uproar that would be

I went to an all girls school and while there is no known case of any alumnae (or as we call them Old Girls (it's a British term. A few Canadian single gendered schools have strong connections to their British "public" school cousins, I guess)) undergoing gender reassignment, I've often wondered what happens to these ladies (gentlemen?) Would they still be welcome at alumnae events? Do they still receive newsletters?

For a school, I would assume they would still receive newsletters/be welcome...

For GLO... it's a sisterhood/brotherhood... and if you've switched genders you wouldn't really "fit" anymore. Though, I would expect for a transgendered person to probably understand this... after all, they know the organization and what it stands for.

Honestly, I can't imagine what would happen.

One comment I'd like to make is that since transgendered persons often don't "feel" as if they belong to their birth sex, I can't see, for example, a transgendered woman being interested in sorority life--she sees herself as male, so why would she want to join a women's group. Of course, then again, you have the compensation issues that many transgendered persons have--ie atransgendered man trying to compensate by being ultra-masculine when they feel like a woman.

Personally, if this situation arose, if it came into light, I think it would be very unclassy to depin this person. I don't know how it work out in an alum club situation, supposing that person wanted to become involved. It could be awkward. But I think it would just be plain mean to depin that person. They were a part of the siblinghood. Besides, most transgendered people struggle and fail to reclassify themselves legally as the sex they identify with. So technically, legally, these people are still their birth sex. Many of them are married, for example. So I'm not sure the "no longer a woman, only women are in our org" argument works.

It would certainly be a messy legal battle if it came to that.

And any org that chose to write that in to its Constitution might come out looking very poorly in history's eyes.

taualumna...
 

random question for taualumna (just b/c you mentioned that you went to an all girls school - so did i) by any chance were you at havergal? they're the only girl's school i know that refer to its alum as old girls!

I can't speak for all people that undergo sex changes, but the majority of them do it because they are uncomfortable with their gender and feel like they can't fit in. In that case, I'd be really surprised if someone who was contemplating having this surgery would join a GLO for that gender. If John Smith was having issues with being a male and was contemplating becoming a woman, I doubt he'd join a fraternity or any other male- only organization.

Canadian AOII, I went to BSS (Bishop Strachan School). They are the "other" school that uses the term "Old Girl".

Ok, so I vote that it would be kinda hard to decide but I have a question.

Say Susie an ABC has a daughter, Betty. Susie gets a sex change, is Betty still a legacy to ABC?

or

What if Bob, ABC and Susie, DEF get together, they have a child, Joe. Joe gets a sex change, where is he a legacy?

Oh man! The GP could not believe her eyes.

I really know nothing about this, but I'm sure it's happened.

Nothing, Alpha Phi Omega is co-ed. :)


Randy

Side note, I just watched "The Christine Jorgenson Story" at 2 AM on Friday...dumb snow. :p

Here's how I look at it...when someone gets a sex change, they legally change their name. If I became 33boy, 33girl would no longer exist, so neither would my membership in my sorority.

Regarding legacies, though, if the person made a stink, they would probably consider the children legacies just to make things easier all around.

Yeah...but according to the birth certificate, they are technically recognized by law as male, right? :confused:

I think if you go through with the complete operation and change everything... that they change ALL your legal paperwork for you.. so you really are now opposite of what you were born. I assume though that your affiliation would have to end along with your old gender though. HOWEVER if you join AFTER the complete operation you can rush the organizations for your new gender.

I am in the middle of finals, so the whole concept of a sex change operation and how that affects a GLO affiliation is frying my brain. :)

That's like trying to figure out what happens when the black hole meets the unstoppable force, you know, it's like not something that we're able to figure out. Maybe I'm just speaking for myself but questions like that are just philosophy and i'm not about philosophy, I'm about just living my life, you know, and not worrying and just letting the days come and I'm chillin'. That's the way to live! No worries. :D

Fortunately, I have more faith in my organization than to think that they'd allow something like that to stand on a technicality. There is no legal requirment that we keep any member for any reason. They can be kicked out for anything. I'm sure if it was brought to the attention of our HQ that the individual would probably be gone.

As far as sexual orientation, dressing up as the other sex.. I don't see that being so much a problem. But when you go so far as to become a transexual, I'm pretty sure that's where they'd draw the line.

My sorority is pretty well known for being unselective. We are a sorority however, so if we ever have a guy who says he's interested in joining, we TRY to suggest our brother fraternity, APO. :) But last year we had a person who was a male-to-female transgender student want to join our org. We were excited to have her join, since she is one of the most interesting people I'll ever meet. Our sorority went through a lot to let her join -- the school and the other orgs did not like the idea at all, and fought us the whole way, until our Nationals contacted them all to remind them that we can take whoever we want. :) I know this isn't the exact same situation, but I just wanted to share my story!

as has been previously stated
 

i can't imagine that a transgendered person prior to sex reassignment would be interested in joining a glo, i.e. the interests of the transgendered male would "probably" be different than that of the average fraternity member(same for transgendered female). there is a girl at the school my son attends(he's in 8th grade) and she is definately one of those poor souls who has the misfortune of being in the wrong body;i.e., she is male except for anatomy. she strongly identifies with the boys and wears the boys uniform instead of the girls. i cant' imagine her wanting to join a sorority when she is in college.
and just to let you know, the school and all her classmates accept her for what she is- a lovely person.

:confused:

She is in Gamma Sigma Sigma. They do not select people for the pursuit of membership - whoever wants to pledge, can pledge - but not everyone is successful in that pursuit.

LOL!!!
:p

Exactly -- thank you! :)

Actually, they wouldn't be able to join SHIM, because SHIM only takes people who haven't been members of a fraternity or sorority. Perhaps SHAM and TPAN would take them. I believe that they allow previous membership in a fraternity or sorority.

What about SKEPi? :D