Controversial Topic #782: What is your opinion on Pre-Nuptial Agreements?
 

I thought I would throw this into the mix, because I wanted to know what you all had to say...I have to say, after seeing some divorces in my friends and family, I am all in favor of the pre-nuptial agreements; I suppose I have become somewhat disillusioned with the idea of ever lasting love and singing "Kumbaya" as you drive off into the sunset together after exchanging vows.... Discuss!

If I had a significant amount of money or my family did, I would want a pre-nuptual agreement. I have no plans to marry right now so it is really just a hypothetical question. I have seen a few bad divorces, and a pre-nup might have made things less complicated.

Sigh.

I think it is better if it can come as an advisement from the lawyers or a condition in the parents' will(s) rather than the bride or groom directly. It's like the "am I fat" question, there is no right answer!

If you're talking two Hollywood stars though, or extremely well off society people, I don't think anyone would be offended...it's just part of life for them.

after i inherited some money a few years back people have always said that i should think about having one when i get married. but part of me has always felt that if you have one you are going into this marriage thinking that it is going to fail. luckily, i am in no way close to getting married at all so i don't have to worry about that... and my sister, who inherited the same amount as me, is getting married in two months and she doesn't have one. i guess that if it was a hugely significant amount of money then i would think about it, but i don't know if i could approach whoever i was going to marry with one...

If I had a million dollars of course I would agree with a pre nupt. If you both don't have alot there is no point.

For the love of God, if your sister puts a large portion of payment into a house or any investment for that matter, make sure that it is well documented and in WRITING. My sister just got divorced after 16 years of marriage and 4 children. Did she think that her marriage would fail? No.
My point is, people CHANGE. I also want to emphasize that people think that the law will "punish" the wrong doer. Make no mistake my friends, it won't.

Good point, 33. I also think that if people get married later in life, or perhaps it's not the first marriage, it might be an easier to topic to broach. Let's just say, I am considerably LESS idealistic than I was in my 20s!

funny you should mention that, they are looking at houses right now and i believe she is planning on taking some of that money for it.... hhmmm....

Also, I'm not sure if your parents are giving money to your sister, but if they are, make sure that it is clearly documented as a gift to HER, not both of them. Otherwise he can take half of that "gift". (or have them do up some sort of a promissary repayment note that they both sign).

Can you tell that there was recently an ugly divorce in my family?
Oy..... :( :mad:

Jury's out on pre-nups...I just think it's sad that many people are starting to need them.

I've always thought a pre-nup couldn't hurt. While I'd love to believe that me and the future will be together forever if not, I'd like to know that I'll be able to be on my two feet while that whole ordeal would be going on you know? I don't know though. My guy and I have discussed prenups before and I belive he's strictly against it because of that idea that I wouldn't think the marriage would last.

Does anyone know how much they cost? I guess if you really wanted one you could say well I'll pay for it even though I know we will last?

My old boyfriend made it clear there would be one if we got married, and it didn't bother me. We both have property and money in trust (combination of gifts and inheritance) so it makes things easier. We argued about which family heirloom ring we'd use, not a prenup. Though after I thought about it I saw value in it. I learned a bit in business law about inheritance, and I plan to go into law anyway, so it isn't an issue. Mine will contain very specific items; things I have inherited from my grandmothers and father that I want to stay in my family. Not that I do not trust my future husband if anything happens to me, but if something happens to him, we're childless, or other people are "helping out" after my death, I want certain things to go to my sister. Ownership of possessions changes with marriage, so I'd prefer to make it clear. If I have no children, or extremely young children; everything that is an heirloom from my birth family goes to my biological sister. Any jewelry I'd want her to wear and enjoy until any daughters are old enough to appreciate it. The only two young men in my life serious to discuss marriage with understood this and felt the same way about their siblings. Though most of this could also be addressed in a will...

If you have a huge inheritance and a lot of property going into the thing, why should your s/o be entitled to half if you split?

How many states have community property laws?

I don't think that prenups are a bad idea.It may imply that you think the marriage won't last but you have to be sensible.I would sign one in a heartbeat because I think it implys that I am not a gold digger.If I had a significant amount of money and or property and my prospective spouse wouldn't sign one,I would wonder what their intentions really were.Cynical maybe but realistic. I have seen too many friends and family members think that it wouldn't happen to them.It can and does happen to anyone.

I'm not like MAJORLY for them, but they can't hurt: Case in point: My parents split after 28 years of marriage....Nothing was singularly either of theirs, and the courts ended up favoring my mom (no problem i guess), but there was quite a bit of money involved (stocks, bonds, retirement, etc), and it makes me SICK that my step-dad is going to be retiring on 25% of my DAD'S well-earned money. :mad: Livid would probably be a better word, actually. Either way, it pisses me off.....That money is supposed to be for my MOM, not for my mom and Gary-the-Nazi! :mad: :rolleyes:

-sigh- call me a dreamer/romantic/an idiot....but i would be SOO upset if my man was like, "hun, we gotta do this pre-nup thing b/4 i agree to marry you." i just need a lil more trust in the institution of marriage (and this is just me here, everyone has their own thang and that's cool), and when i give my extatic YES when whoever-dude-is proposes to me, that's it. i was witness to a very depressing wedding followed by a very messy divorce, so i won't even say yes to the idea of marriage unless i KNOW that my hunnie is just as dedicated to sticking through the good, bad, and ugly as i am. i know that marriage isn't always easy, that ppl change....but to feel the need for "just in case" would totally kill the mood for me. plus the fact i would like to think that both of us could be mature enough to know what is who's and leave it at that.

aaaah....to dream the impossible dream.......

I think they're good. Protect my interests.

If I were older, had assets of my own (property, money, heirloom items) or had children for whom I wanted to secure a future, I would probably prenup it. The same holds true if I had a LOT (ie, $100,000 or more) in inheritance.

I think prenuptial agreements are especially important if a spouse is to receive a certain amount of retirement in the event of a divorce (ie, in the military, if you're married for longer than 10 years, your spouse is entitled to 1/3 or so of your retirement). It might be good to ensure that the money goes specifically for your spouse and children, and not some subsequent spouse.

But, none of those situations apply to me. I have money coming to me, yes, but if I ever had to part with half of it, it wouldn't bother me too much. If all goes well and I end up w/ Mr. Munchkin, we'll be making about the same salary throughout our respective careers and we're not coming to the table with any major landholdings. Plus, I don't really agree with prenups for myself--for the reason that I really don't need one. So, if you've got stuff you're really concerned about, I'd say do it.

Both my brother and I have trust funds and we've known our entire lives that whoever we marry MUST sign a pre-nup, our parents wouldn't hear of it not happening. And I completely understand, they worked hard (and got lucky with investing) for all this money and they don't want to see someone take it all away after they've given it to us. If the guy I plan to marry can't understand this, then oh well, I don't want to marry him anyway. And besides, who can you REALLY trust besides yourself? Ultimately, no one!

I don't like the idea of a pre-nup just because it implies that you don't have faith in your marriage. I do think that there should be provisions to make sure that you retain the specific property taht was yours before you got married after the marriage occurs. Anything acquired after the marriage should be split unless it's an inheritance. I'm a firm believer in sharing your life, whether good or bad, rich or poor.

Don't need one. My marriage, to whoever it may be, will last.

However, if you feel you need one, maybe what you REALLY need is a relationship or marriage counselor. Sorry, to be blunt, but it's my opinion:)

Only 50% of marriages work out. I don't see myself married for more than 7 years befofe the future Mrs. Prime splits town. :(

The only way I would agree to a pre-nup is if he had specific family heirlooms/ estates he wanted to keep in his family (I'm not arguing the "if I have money" deal-- I don't). I would not sign a pre-nup that would barr me from getting money that he earned (family inheritence might be different-- but probably not). Frankly, women still don't make as much as men in society, and they also tend to stay home with the kids and screw their chances of getting a high paying job later in life. I don't want to make sacrifices for the marrige or children to find out that I don't have any money if we get a divorce. I'd want to live my life as I had always livd it and not suddenly become a pauper. This sounds bitchy, but I'd want half, and there's no way I would sign away my right to get it!

They're a necessariy evil.

In case of divorce, I'm not letting some asshole future ex-husband get his hands on my trust.

I wish that I had a trust. :)

The Basics
Say 'I do' with a contingency plan in hand

No, a prenuptial agreement about what happens if it doesn't work out isn’t particularly romantic. Yes, it’s a good idea, especially if you’ve been married before.

By Terry Savage


They say that getting married for the second -- or third -- time is a triumph of hope over experience. But because nearly half of all marriages end in divorce, it makes sense to plan ahead the second time around. And even first marriages might benefit from a solid prenuptial discussion of how finances will be handled to make the marriage work -- or in case it doesn’t work!

The key ingredient in that planning process is likely to be a prenuptial agreement. Writing one may not sound very romantic, but it is very smart. The best and most sensible agreements are completed when both parties are very much in love, not when they’re considering divorce. If you’re anticipating getting married -- or know someone who is -- why not send them the link to this article? It will certainly start a discussion!See the numbers
that lenders see.


Prenuptial agreements aren’t just for the wealthy. Forget the stereotype of the wealthy, older man marrying a much younger wife. Even young couples who have already embarked on careers could benefit from a legal agreement about the financial consequences of divorce. Certainly, those embarking on a second or third marriage will want to provide for their children from previous marriages, as well as keeping premarital property separate.

Keys to an agreement
Prenuptials aren’t limited to financial issues, although finances generally are the critical issue. You could make a prenuptial agreement about almost any area of potential conflict -- during the marriage and in case the marriage fails. It’s important to distinguish between a simple, personal agreement of how you’re planning to handle money matters and other important issues (such as work and child-care priorities) and a true prenuptial agreement. The prenuptial is a written, legal and binding document.

There are two key ingredients to a valid, legal prenuptial agreement:
Both parties must be represented by separate and independent legal counsel.

Both parties must fully disclose all of their financial assets and liabilities. Failure to do so will almost always void an agreement.
Once again, throw out the stereotype of the dominating male forcing the young bride to sign on the dotted line just minutes before the ceremony. Not only might that be considered coercion, and thus invalidate the agreement, but these days prenuptials are arrived at through joint discussions handled by attorneys (and, sometimes, accountants if there’s enough money involved) well in advance of any marriage ceremony. And your input is vital, so you need to discuss these issues with the person you’re about to marry.

The purpose of a prenuptial agreement is to supersede, where possible, state laws that apply to dissolutions of marital property. And in states where judges are given broad discretion over division of property and future support, a valid prenuptial agreement limits a judge’s ability to dictate property settlement terms. So you do need an attorney trained in matrimonial law because state laws vary, and because your estate plans will also have to be coordinated with your prenuptial agreement.

Issues to address
Here are a few financial issues to consider dealing with in your prenuptial agreement, depending on your circumstances and state of residence.

Premarital assets. If you agree that any assets owned before marriage will be kept separate, you might want to set up separate, revocable living trusts and transfer title to the assets into the name of your trust.

Marital assets. You’ll have to decide how to deal with assets acquired by joint purchase during your marriage and any assets and earnings you acquire separately during your marriage. In many states, but not all, wealth accumulated after marriage will become community property, or at least marital property. You may want to discuss how to divide marital property in the event of a divorce, or make an advance agreement on ownership of assets acquired during the marriage. (True community property states that assume property acquired after the marriage is equally owned by both spouses are Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Washington, Texas and Wisconsin, as well as the territory of Puerto Rico.)

Retirement assets. Although retirement plans are considered separate property, in many states a non-working spouse is entitled to a share of the working spouse’s retirement assets. You’ll definitely want to see how the law applies in your situation.

Inheritances. If inherited property is kept separate from marital property, most courts do not consider it part of the marital estate in case of a divorce. But if you take a portion of your inheritance and use it for a down payment on a house owned jointly, you’ll convert this portion of your inheritance into marital property. In any case, if you’re expecting to inherit money, your prenuptial should spell out your intentions to keep the assets separate.

Financial lifestyle and support. Your prenuptial can outline your intentions for contributing to the financial lifestyle of the marriage, during the marriage. For example, non-financial contributions such as child-rearing should be taken into consideration. One spouse may limit career prospects to build the family lifestyle. Courts take these contributions into consideration, and so should your prenuptial agreement.

Obviously, circumstances may change during your marriage, and a good marriage will be flexible. But a bad marriage will break -- and that’s why most prenuptials outline a support agreement between the spouses in case of divorce. For example, each spouse may agree to limit ongoing support to three or four years. Or they could agree not to seek support from each other at all, in exchange for an even division of marital property.

If you expect -- or simply want -- to have children, your agreement may contain not only references to child support, education and other expenses, but may extend to social issues such as religious upbringing and type of schools. And in cases of second marriages with children, the agreement should take into account the child-support arrangements from the previous divorce.

Terms. Many prenuptial agreements for support and property division in the event of divorce include a scaled agreement. That is, if the marriage lasts only one or two years, the couple could agree to no support. If a marriage lasts for a longer period, then either larger support or a lump-sum payment could be agreed upon. Or the agreement might “vest” like a pension plan -- with a portion of the payout dependent on the longevity of the marriage. And the couple may agree to review the terms of their prenuptial at a certain date in the future, or the agreement may “sunset” after a specific number of years.

Life insurance. Financial circumstances can change during the course of a marriage. Many prenuptials call for both parties to maintain life insurance -- with each spouse owning the policy on the other’s life. This won’t pay off in the case of a divorce, but as long as each has an “insurable interest” in the other’s future, the owner can continue paying premiums and maintain the coverage.

Estate plans. Prenuptials cover not only financial considerations in case of a divorce, but agreement on what happens if either of the couple dies. So the provisions of a prenuptial must be incorporated into each spouse’s estate plan. For example, as part of a prenuptial, the spouse might receive lifetime use of a residence, which will then become an asset of a child from the previous marriage. Although different attorneys may draw the estate plans, they’ll rely on the prenuptial to outline certain terms. And then each spouse’s attorney should review the separate estate plans for compliance.

A final reminder: If you’re thinking that a prenuptial agreement is about to take all the romance out of your marriage plans, think again. You’re about to spend a lot of time and money making arrangements for the ceremony, the party, the flowers and wedding dress. Those aren’t very romantic subjects, either -- but they’ve become part of the “tradition” of having a wedding. Now, it’s time to start your own new tradition of planning for a financially successful marriage through a mutual prenuptial agreement that demonstrates your love, commitment -- and practicality.

i think they're cool
 

the guy that i'm seeing. ..even though we've only been talking a couple of months. . .i asked about where his parent's money came from. . .

a long time ago, someone in their family invested in an airplane insurance company with some friends. along the way, he also bought commodities and eventually starting buying real estate. anyway, the guy set up trusts and stocks for every child in the immediate family. no one could touch their money until they were out of college or 25 yrs old. the money would not be allotted all at once but once a year. and there had to be a stable job history dating back to 5 years or proof of college residency. only then, someone would get a certain percentage to live off of or invest.

if someone were to get married, they had to sign a pre-nupt. their percentage would be cut so that they could live only off the money they make plus a small recreational allowance(small being $100K). if the marriage was dissolved in less than 10 years due to infidelity, impotence, or inability to have children, the person could walk away with only the amount that they invested in the marriage(don't ask because i have no clue how they figure that one). if the marriage dissolved in less than 10 and there were kids born, the kids receive the parents amount invested into the marriage in the form of trusts, stock, etc. their schooling is paid for and they get a recreational allowance once they enter high school(that pays for a car, gas, sports, clothes, etc).

or that's the way i understood it. i didn't realize that even though you have a trust. . .you can't just go and get money like it's an ATM. you have to have a good reason plus documented receipts.