HORRENDOUS BEAT DOWN
 

I thought i would take the time to share this with everyone......Yesterday at work I had a very sad conversation with a woman who happen to walk up as me and a few of my co-workers were discussing something pertaining to a sorority(which will remain nameless) anyway.......this woman went on to tell us how she hated the sorority because just this past semester her daughter was pledging and she suffered a beatdown that had her hospitalized for a short time! She said that what she really could not understand is why her daughter was more angry at her for insisting that she drop out of the line than she was at the girls who beat her up. She said her daughter claimed she did not want to be "paper"(how i hate that term) and that the beating was necessary and that everyone got one hers just affected her more! I was really saddened by this! I went on to tell the lady that although I was not greek, it is something that i am going to pursue beacuse it is really a positive thing. I explained to her that although the sorority that we spoke of was not my sorority of choice, I did know many women who were a part of the sorority and that they have NEVER taken part in such things and that they are also doing great things for their surrounding community and more. I told her that unfortunately different chapters do things in different ways and she must understand that alot of ths type of behavior goes unreported(as in her daughters case). I told her that I think they should report what happened because working torward the end of this type of treatment must be a joint effort and people can stop what is not known. If it is reported, I told her maybe it will decrease (if not completley eliminate) the next line of pledgees from having to deal with this. At the end of the convo I think that she understood what i meant. I also told her to tell her daughter that she should still wear her letters proudly and be active in her sorority. She should pay no attention to those who may insist that she is "paper"(i hate that term) Because after all its not about how you obtain your letters(unless you obtain them under false pretenses) it is what you do with them once you have them!..............Anyway I just want to tell all the prospectives out there! It is not worth it! I mean it is very important to me that I obtain membership in the sorority of my choice but I will not take a beat down from no one! I do not see any correlation in beating me up and love, loyalty and sisterhood! I have no problem with pledging. It may be a good experience for some. If it involves a beating then that is when it becomes a bad thing. When a parent beats a child that is not love! When a man beats a woman that is not love!(or vice versa) So if a woman beats me up one day and expects me to believe that she loves me the next and that now we are bonding.......I beleive that is bullshit! I do not know about yall but I really do not think I if got beat up by someone, or a group of people, that it would make me feel closer to them. So prospectives do not lose sight of your goal if you ever run into this problem then please report it. It is not about being a tattle tale it is about doing the RIGHT thing! Do not accept beatdowns. If you are truly pursuing your choice of a greek org for the right reasons then you will know that you can love your org, support them, and be active for a lifetime, and no beatdown is going to help you do it any better! IF THERE ARE ANY GREEKS OUT THERE WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH A PLEDGE PROCESS WHERE THEY WERE HIT.........I JUST WANT TO APOLOGIZE TO YOU ON BEHALF OF THE HUMAN RACE! ALTHOUGH WE HAVE INTELLIGENT, GREAT MINDS, WE STILL MAKE BAD DECSIONS, AND TAKE PART IN SOME AWFUL THINGS AT TIMES. I AM SORRY IF ANYONE EVER DEALT WITH THAT. I HOPE THAT ANYONE WHO HAS REALIZES THAT THEY DID NOT DESERVE IT AND NO ONE ELSE DOES EITHER! SO HOPEFULLY THE ONES THAT HAVE RECEIVED IT DO NOT DISH IT OUT. WE HAVE TO BREAK THE CYLCLE AT SOME POINT!

All I can say is Well Said!!

ditto...print your words out and keep them by your bed. If your time should come http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif hold tight to your virtues. You might be suprised how much peer pressure will make you do things you never thought you would do. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Good luck



[This message has been edited by Finer Woman10-A-91 (edited June 05, 2000).]

IN THE BEGINNING THE THOUGHT
WAS A WONDERFUL DREAM .
A WONDERFUL WORLD OF WOMANHOOD COMING TOGETHER FOR ONE COMMON PURPOSE. IN ORDER FOR ME TO ENTER THIS WONDERFUL DREAM I NEEDED TO GO THROUGH SOME THINGS, AND I DID. SOME I WASN'T TO PROUD OF AND SOME THINGS MADE ME CRY OUT LOUD. EMOTIONALY BRUSED AND PHYSICALLY TIRED, I WAS ALLOWED MEMBERSHIP INTO THE DREAM THAT IS NOW REALITY. YES I WAS BEATEN, YES I WAS TORMENTED, AND YES THE MENTAL TORMENT STILL LINGERS. I AM PROUD TO BE A PART OF MY SORORITY BECAUSE I TOOK AN OATH AN I PLAN TO LIVE BY THAT OATH. I TOOK AN OATH FROM THE WORD OF GOD, TO LOVE EVERYONE AS MUCH AS I LOVE THE CREATOR OF ALL.I WILL NOT TREAT THE WOMEN WHO ARE UNDER ME WITH LITTLE TO NO RESPECT LIKE I WAS TREATED, I AM BETTER THAN THAT!!!!

Queen- Thank you for posting that! I am glad to read your last statment!! So many people do things because it was done to them and people don't realize that just because it was done to them that doesn't make it right!

ZetaAce

AMEN!!!!!!!!!



------------------
Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

Prettygrl:

I usually don't like to comment on hazing/pledging threads, as the topic has been done to death, AND I have concerns about why such things are posted in the first place, but I really wanted to comment on your statement:

"Because after all its not about how you obtain your letters(unless you obtain them under false pretenses) it is what you do with them once you have them!.............."

While it does matter most what you do with your letters once you receive them, there is a feeling I can't explain that comes with having earned them through a set of challenges, in short, the experience involved with getting the letters informs the sacredness of the letters once earned. Mind you, not an experience with beatings, not mental cruelty, but a set of challenges that my line sister and I had to work through. It's hard at times for me to understand why one would have that deep love for their letters/organization without such experiences to help burnish those feelings in one's heart.

The problem-solving and leadership skills I gained through that experience have stood me in good stead since then, and the bond formed between myself and my sands, whom I couldn't stand before we pledged together, has stood every test the past decade has brought us. I only hope that I imparted that same sense of "somethingness" to the young women I brought into our sisterhood when it was my turn to teach them. It's that "somethingness" that causes tears to well in my eyes whenever I sing our hymn, participate in rituals, or greet a new soror (and pick up my checkbook to help financially support the sisterhood, too!).

I hope and pray that we come up with a better solution so that more young women and men get to know that feeling, rather than the pain and anger that come with this whole hazing/underground/"paper" issue that has manifested itself since 1990.

DG
Spring, 1990
Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.

P.S. The term "paper" is a perjorative one, used to describe a member of a BGLO who has gone through a membership intake process in which they are initiated without participating in a pledge period or took part in an extremely short one, without enough time to learn the history, rituals, etc. of the organization.




[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited June 05, 2000).]

I read the first post and it saddened me to think that a young lady wanted to join a particular sorority so badly, that she would put up with anything, at any cost, including a physical beating, in order to be a member.

I was hazed, not by a sorority, but by a women's rowing team. I thank God that I was not beaten physically, but I was verbally abused, sworn at, traumatized, had a streak of my hair dyed black (so I looked like an idiot with a bad dye job in my first year of college, just what you don't need when you are trying to find your "way" in college that first year).

I had alcohol poured down my throat, and the other members of the rowing team held their hands over my mouth, so I couldn't spit the alcohol out; I had to swallow it (it was tequila - straight up...yuck) (Also, I do enjoy a drink once in a while, in a responsible manner, but nothing like that forced ingestion that I was subjected to).

Not surprisingly, I felt alienated by the hazing incident, not "closer" to the team members. I quit the team soon after and never looked back. I hated those girls for what they did to me and I have never regretted quitting.

Therefore, I take a firm stance against hazing and think those that perform the acts of hazing should be punished to the fullest extent allowable.

(P.S. What does "paper" mean? Please tell me, I honestly don't know. From the context, it sounds like "paper" means you are worthless. Am I on the right track? Please let me know.)

Thank you and God Bless.

I too try to stay out of these discussions, but I thought I would provide some interesting reading material that is semi-related to the discussion:

Pledging vs. Hazing

I_was_hazed- Check this out for the answer to your question:
Greek Terms

Both of these articles came from http://3n1promo.com/ and click on the link at the top The Temple of Blue

ZetaAce


[This message has been edited by ZetaAce (edited June 05, 2000).]

I have to agree with Discogoddess, for she makes some very good points. I was never beaten or harmed in any way. But I earned my letters and now I have more confindence and faith in people. There are better ways of teaching them hospitalizing someone.

Discgoddes I have no problems with pledging, I do beleive it could be a plus in alot of cases but I will not be hit thats all I was saying. The learning process and the leadership roles etc that you learn through pledging is great just minus a beat down. I really was not trying to post about just "hazing" so to speak, but you would be surprised how many young men and women feel that the beatdown is necessary for respect I just wanted everyone to know it is not. Some people that are called "paper" are those who have went throught the whole process and then in the end were dropped and some dropped line because of physical abuse. I just think it is awful of some who may not have respect them because the were considered "paper" I know for myself If I am faced with choice of being what one would consider "paper" or a beat down I would rather be known as paper without a doubt. Thats all I was trying to say.

there is nothing wrong with challenging potentials leadership and team work, but, the problem is how to keep those from acting outside of the process. how do you control th lunatics? if any of our organizations could have answered this question,there would still be some semblence of the pledge process left. the rules are created for the 10-15% of the population who don't get it. the ones who want to exercise some power our someone else to make themselves feel important. i know of folks who still travel back to their home chapter to make sure the neos come in right. how do you reason with and old head who is drunk (in many cases)and on a power trip about protecting their chapter? and at the end of the day, it is a financial decision for our headquarters. no one can afford to keep paying million dollar verdicts to families of the battered or dead potentials.

I agree with some of the points that have been made here, and disagree with others. I believe that it is a personal decision, when it comes to pledging. First off, pledging and hazing are two different things. To make two people wear the same shirt is considered hazing. That to me is at the far end of the spectrum. I believe in a pledge process, although a person's love and dedication to thier organization should be in spite of, not becuase of how they were made. Yes we get bogged down into this paper vs who pledged thing all the time. But the sad part is that a lot of those people who can say I pledge for 6 months, I got mad wood, I was seen by x y and z chapter, I am from the bloody $# chapter, I was in the hosptital, will never show thier face at a grad meeting. Will not come out for any Kommunity service. That is a problem. I am not saying that all are like this, but the statistics of people who join our respective organization, and those who remain active after they graduate, are staggering. Reklimation is a big problem within all of the BGLO's. I know bras that will travel from Cali to Georgia to pledge a line, but will not drive down the street, to go to a grad meeting. That's sad.

This whole discussion is not new though. Fraternities and sorrorities have been dealing with this for quite some time now.

I will say something that a few of you may not like, but you don't know me and probably never will so here it goes.

"There is nothing wrong with taking a little wood!" I am sorry I know that most of you don't agree, but like I said that's just my opinion. As long as it is not excessive, there are some things that one should just go through.

That's my opinion, and I am sticking with it.

ManndigoNUPE:

I'm glad you had the guts to speak your mind, even if your opinion isn't popular on this particular thread. Though I presume you were speaking about your own experience, I would like to add that I think that for WOMEN to administer and accept physical beatings as a part of entering a supposedly refined, ladylike organization, is ridiculous and completely unacceptable. I am a feminist who believes that women and men are equal, but I also believe we're different, and I wouldn't want to take up certain things that are considered normal for men, like beating someone as a part of a pledge process.

dstbrat:

I am still trying to figure out a way that our organizations can incorporate the positive aspects of pledge activities without the craziness of hazing. The only thing I've come up with so far is some type of moratorium on membership intake (particularly undergraduate) while we undertake a renewed reclamation effort during that time. I don't know exactly how it would work, but I hope that by rededicating myself to my own sorority, I will work with others to figure out a positive, WORKABLE solution. We need WORKERS to accomplish the goals we've all set. POSEURS need not apply!

DG

Discogoddess,
I usually stay out of the hazing/pledging conversations because 1) I'm not a member of a sorority and 2) they have been beaten into the ground and rarely does someone's opinion change. That being said, here I go anyway http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I understand what you are saying about a moratorium on undergrad membership, but I don't think that will work because of the way people have romanticized pledging. Above ground pledging in the NPHC was banned (please correct me if I am wrong) 1990. The average college student (at 19-20 yrs old) was 9 or 10!! They shouldn't (really) know anything about pledging, but they talk about how they want to be pledged. So, how do they know what that means? Of course movies like School Daze and shows like A Different World have ficitionalized above ground pledging, but I think most of them have gotten an idea of what 'pledging' is all about from members of BGLOs--"old heads" if you will--talking about their experiences--even when they talk about how hazing/pledging was a bad thing. People like sharing war stories. When they do, they elevate the experiences to mythical proportions. When you are 19-20 and some one you respect talks about how "hard" they worked for their letters, how they never got any sleep, all the things they went through, etc, the impressionable 19 year old wants to experience the same thing so he/she can be "just like them". Even if the person is saying 'don't do this' those stories can, sound like something you would want to do too.

If there is going to be a moratorium, it should be on sharing stories on how you came in. If that stopped people would stop wanting to 'pledge'.

Eclipse:

Point well taken. Actually, people shouldn't be talking about how they pledged, not if they're being discreet. Only the people with whom you shared the experience should be privy to that information. But, you're right, people romanticize and run their mouths.

I think the reason why today's greeks still participate in hazing/pledging is because there was never a moratorium on intake, just pledging. So say, in my case (spring 1990), we simply had a line the next spring, and continued along with what had been done before, as everyone was still sorting everything out (grad, undergrad, etc.)with the new system. A moratorium of several years would give orgs. time to devise a workable pledge system, train people, and put it into place. Trying to do that with the current crop of folks, many of whom are basing their pledge process on what was told to them, without explanation, is just futile.

DG

WUT UP EVERYBODY! I'VE BEEN AWAY FOR A BIT BUT I HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO READ SOME OF YOUR POSTS ON THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC.

PLEASE PARDON MY FRANKNESS, BUT I'LL SAY IT AGAIN IF I HAVEN'T SAID IT BEFORE, WE NEED TO STOP ACCEPTING THE BLAME FOR ALL THE NEGATIVE STUFF (PARTICULARLY HAZING) THAT OCCURS IN OUR ORGS. WHY DO I SAY THIS? WELL FROM MY EXPERIENCES AND FROM THE EXPERIENCES OF OTHERS I KNOW IN VARIOUS ORGS, THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN MEMBERSHIP KNOWS THE DEAL BEFORE THEY EVEN STEP UP.

NOW IS IT WRONG TO "BEAT SOMEONE DOWN"? YES. IS HAZING ILLEGAL? YES. DO SOME MEMBERS GO OVERBOARD IN THEIR TACTICS? HELL YES! WHY DOES IT OCCUR? WELL PARTLY BECAUSE OF CHAPTER TRADITIONS, BUT IN LARGE PART BECAUSE "OLDHEADS" DON'T SEE PEOPLE BEING "MADE" ANY OTHER WAY. ONE OF THE FINE LADIES ON HERE QUESTIONED HOW YOU STOP AN OLDHEAD FROM RUNNING YOUR SET. I CAN'T SPEAK FOR OTHER ORGS BUT IN MY FRAT (MY CHAPTER) WHEN AN OLDHEAD FROM YOUR CHAPTER COMES YOU DON'T WANT TO STEP ON HIS TOES.

NOW I'VE NEVER SEEN ANY OLDHEADS GO OVERBOARD AND ALL THAT CRAZY MESS, BUT I HAVE SEEN SOME BRING THAT OLD SKOLL FLAVA. *RULE OF THUMB AS A DP, YOU NEVER LET SOMEONE FROM ANOTHER CHAPTER "HAZE" YOUR LINE.* IF AT ANY POINT I FELT THAT A BRO. WAS GOING OVERBOARD THEN MY HUMAN CONSCIOUS WOULD INTERVENE AND DEAL WITH THAT MAN.

ALSO TOO, LET ME SAY A LOT OF "PROSPECTS" KNOW, EXPECT, AND WANT TO BE PLEDGED! MANY PEOPLE WILL NOT SEEK YOUR ORG. IF THEY ARE CONSIDERED PAPERMAKERS. THAT DOESN'T GIVE US REASON TO PLEDGE THEM HARD, BUT IT'S A FACT.

BEFORE I END LET ME SAY THIS, I LOVE MY FRAT AND THE BRO'S WHO MADE ME. I LOVE THE BRO'S I'VE MADE AND THEY LOVE ME. IF I HAVE A SON AND HE WANTS TO GET DOWN W2ITH MY FRAT., HONSTLY I'LL HAVE RESERVATIONS, BUT I'LL WANT HIM MADE JUST LIKE ME AND THE OTHERS WHO MADE ME. IN SUPPORT OF MY FELLOW NUPE (YO YO MANDINGO!!!) SOMETIMES A LITTLE WOOD DON'T HURT NONE...

WELL, I DO NOT ABOUT A LITTLE WOOD BUT YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT PROSPECTIVES WHO WANT TO BE "PLEDGED OR MADE" THAT IS WHY I STARTED THIS FORUM TO LET THEM KNOW THAT TAKING A BEAT DOWN DOES NOT MAKE YOU MORE TRUE TO YOUR ORG THAN ANYONE ELSE. I AM A PROSPECTIVE AND I KNOW THAT I DO NOT WANT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT A BEAT DOWN FROM NO ONE. IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT "OLD HEADS" OR ANYONE WOULD WANT TO PUT THAT ON SOMEONE. I MEAN WHATS GIVES THEM THE RIGHT TO PUT THEIR HANDS ON YOU. I HAVE SAID BEFORE I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PLEDGING BECAUSE I KNOW IT CAN BE DONE WITHOUT GETTING HIT. IF I WAS GREEK AND GOT BEAT UP WHILE ONLINE I WOULD NOT WANT SOMEONE TO GO THROUGH THAT JUST BECAUSE I WAS DUMB ENOUGH TO. THATS JUST LIKE ME SAYING THAT IF I WAS IN A RELATIONSHIP AND GOT MY ASS KICKED, THAT I WANT ANY WOMAN THE MAN IS WITH TO GET BEAT UP CAUSE THAT IS HOW I WAS DONE. THATS NOT RIGHT. I WOULD NOT WISH THAT ON ANYONE. MY MOTHER DO NOT HIT ME NOR GIVE ME A LITTLE "WOOD" AND NO ONE ELSE IS EITHER. SO DOES THIS MEAN THAT I WOULD NOT LOVE MY SORORITY AND BE ACTIVE IN IT? I THINK NOT! I WILL ATTEMPT TO PLEDGE COME NEXT SCHOOL YEAR AND I WILL DEAL WITH THE MIND GAMES AND YOU KNOW "STUFF". AS LONG AS NO ONE HITS ME I WILL BE ALL GOOD!

If you allow some one to put you in a situation where they will whoop on your ass for the sake of sisterhood- then you are
IGNORANT!! Women who allow these things to go on join the sorority for the wrong reasong...they do it to BELONG!! "Hell #1's getting her wood so so will I"
Only if you lack self-esteem and self-pride will you allow this to happen. It is sad when we take our aggression out on each other like this. Nothing is worth gettin a beat down over, if you feel in your heart it is wrong. People need to think.
There is nothing wrong with challenges. A person should be able to look back on the pledge process and say that was an experience...not all good...not all bad. But I've learned something. That is what it is supposed to be about, but if you get some psychotic mental case as a prophyte than a beat down is what you will get. Be smart in all that you do. Nothing is worth me losing my letters over and more prophytes should think about that. Why take the chance of disgracing something you claim to hold dear in your heart.
Ladies interested in joining sororities...BE SMART

Hello,
I want to respond to the person that had the conversion with the mother who's daughter was being hazed. First, let me say that hazing is definitely taken to an extreme level in today's Greek life. There has to be a line drawn. You just can't go around beating people down. I will say that being part of a Greek organization is not for everyone. Why? Because you have to go through a process that entails sacrifice and hard work. If you are paper, you have basically walked in on what others have pledged and worked hard for. That isn't fair. Anything in life worth having is gained by hard work, not by having it given to you, or in this case, being paper. If the daughter has stated how she felt by saying that she doesn't want to be paper, although it is very hard to do, the mother should leave situation alone because her daughter is an adult. Personally, being "paper" is a direct insult to me because it is saying that I didn't work for this, I just walked in. I think that is an insult to all Greek organizations in America that have struggled and worked hard for their organization while pledging and after intiation. If you had a choice of being paper or going through something that will make you appreciate what you have once you get it, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU GO THROUGH SOMETHING. DON'T BE A PUNK, AND BEING PAPER IS DEFINITELY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS.

With all due respect Shalom, just becuase you disagree with someone, don't ASSSSSume that what is right for you is right for them. We are all adults, and what ever I choose to do I do. Maybe it is the wrong decision for you, but hey I respect your views, all I ask is that you respect mine.

Tre Tre......would I be a punk if i do not want to get wood? I do not mind going through "something" but not a fight! I would actually feel more like a punk if I allow people to jump on me and treat me like shit! Don't greeks orgs want a strong minded individual to be apart of there organization? Any "punk" can stand there and take or give a beatdown to another person. but it takes a STRONG minded person to stand up and try and make a change! Thats cool about your feelings about so -called "paper" pledgees, but what about the many people that HAVE went through the whole process and did not get in at the end is that really fair? What about those that go grad I beleive most grad chapters does not have the the same pledge process as collegiate. Does that insult you to?

Prettygyrl,
I didn't say be a fool. We are all adults. Personally, if feel like my life is in danger, I'm riding out! See Ya! Consequently, you have to be able to decipher the situation because fraternities accept a more physical process because guys are physical. No you would not be a punk if you didn't want to take wood. I will admit, and I am not ashamed of what I went through.(hell would be a good description) I said I wasn't going to allow anyone to hit me in my face. I got hit in the face one time. Did I get hit in the face again? No Why? Because I was on point and I knew my history. I don't see the point in jumping on pledges and beating them down to the ground. That just plain stupid and portrays the behavior of Neanderthals.(is that spelled right?) Yes Greeks want strong-minded individuals. There is a difference in being strong-minded and ****y. As far a people pledging grad. I respect them because they are frat, but I can't relate to them. I feel insulted for people who walk in undergraduate chapters. Basically, it boils down to this. You don't have to do anything you don't want to. The purpose of the process is to take you to your lowest point and build you back up. You can't get that experience by not going through anything or not being treated like shit. Don't let something as trivial as this cause you not to become Greek. People are always making statements just to make them, and they really don't have an idea of what Black Greek organizations are about.(not you in particular)White Greek organizations have no idea about we are about so they don't understand, so if you don't know, why do you an opinion. A good lesson I learned during my process is, if you don't know what you are talking about, please be quiet because you could be misleading people because of your inaccurate statements (IFC & NPC moderators). Prettygyrl I commend you for talking about this and trying to get the facts. I encourage to think about pledging. It is a great experience that you will never forget.

Please forgive me for my grammatical errors. I was in a hurry. I hope you could understand what I was saying. That was very unprofessional.

Well Well Well, In my frat we don't beat the intakes down. We teach them the history of the bond. If and intake kan kross the burning sands then he will be well respected in the organiztion whether it's undergrad or grad. one still have to go through the process. I know some members in the org get kared away, but that when the intakes have to step up as one & not let it happen. That show unity(bond) among the group. If it's only one intake...well, the same thing. Be a man & step up...I know for my frat....."Many are kalled, few are chosen & the rest are just deaf. I think "my opinion" we should go back with how pledging use to be... in the open...or course still have your shops,but the future members see what they are about to get into. For me & my sands.....We are to pretty on our right & left to get beat down, but the wood was good. "My head is blooded"

Don't worry tretre I will continue my quest into the sorority I want to be in no matter what. I have way too much respect fo rall the orgs to ever let somehing someone said keep me from trying to join. I live and learn and when I come arcoss something I haven't heard I try and research it. I know though that my experience will be different from than others and I know where to draw the line. Thanks everyone for their responses!

I must agree with pretty girl. I wasn't taking no beat down from nobody. My line sisters and I agreed from day one on this issue( some places you can't). Lucky for us, our chapter firmly believes that they don't want to be beat down and they won't do it to others. That does not mean we did not get seriously mentally challenged and were prohibited from doing certain things until we crossed. We had respect for our big sisters and we knew they were no joke, but there are ways to bond initiates without sending them to the hospital.

I think that a lot of these responses were too focused on simply the physical aspect of hazing. don't get me wrong, there is nothing worse and more hippocritical than being beat by a girl or girls that claim to love you. But I feel the mental/emotional aspect can be just as bad if not worse. I remember hearing stories of other sisters in various sororities on campus STILL dealing with weekly weigh-ins, public humiliation such as having your fat circled, etc. Obviously a strong bond is not formed through abuse. Just remember though, hazers are compensating for something. These are usually the girls that never were very well liked or had some other kind of issue. Hazing becomes their opportunity to have control over other people. Personally, if an entire sisterhood was for hazing I would de-pledge in a minute. BUT if only some were hard core hazers, I may remain in. You don't need people like that and there's always going to be those few people you don't mesh with. No one gets a long with everyone. Moral of the story: stick up for yourself, don't be bullied, and de-pledge if you feel too bad about yourself! hazers are a certain type of person. Don't be that person! Instead, become the sister the pledges love and look up to because you treat them with respect.

Just a little poem for ALL GREEKS to think about.

(Author Unknown)

"Paper"

Paper has provided the exsistance of life,
Your birth certificate, degrees, and pay check,But to prevent this term you break your neck,

Paper surrounds our very lives,
Paper allows you to have insight,

There are little things that can be accomplished without paper, Who made you GOD of the last decision of the creator,

The term paper can be turned into beautiful things, paper is what you make to purchase anything,

I uphold the term paper, because without it you are not a success, now who is the memeber of this organizational mess,

Judge me not because I am not a fool, but sh**, I think paper is cool,

Only Christ can judge my path and pave my way, He the only one that starts my day,

Open your eyes so that you can see, Paper is the envitable, it is me;

[This message has been edited by pinkice9 (edited June 23, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by pinkice9 (edited June 23, 2000).]

For some reason, and correct me if I am wrong, but most of the people who keep saying that you shouldn't have to go through anything aren't even greeK. If it is not for you, then cool, just don't hate on those that want to. I will also have to disagree with TreTre. I feel you on everything else, but I would Never turn my back on a member of my fraternity. Paper, plastic, steal, whatever. I don't really like these terms. A true test of a persons luv, is how they conduct themselves after intiation. Any fool can take a beat down. Hell I can go out here in the street and take an ass whipping. But from what I been told, the purpose of pledging is to 1) create a bond of between the perspective members, 2) to teach them to be humble and never think yourselves better than others 3) to train them become leaders by use of various techniques both mental and physical. The leasons that a person learns through a "Process" can help them to deal with many different situations that they face in life. I have not been a greek that long, and I luv to talk to older bras that have been in The Bond for 20 or 30 years, becuase that is when you trully get an idea of what this is all about.

Peace and Luv

Skee-Yo,

I agree with what you are saying oh pretty one. Your pledging should never be in vain but if you are going to pledge know your purpose and your worth. ALL BGLO's should pledge and be pledged, but ONLY to provide unity and teach valuable lessons to propective bruh's and sorors. That is the real deal. Any other reason is not that of our founders and should not be entertained.

"Remember, if you are true to your game and true to your name, your inner-self will remain the same. If you have falsehood, it will never be good and your respect will wither away."

Just a little AKA note.

Pinkice9

Thank you my lovely sister, but I try to steer away from the pretty image. I am simply a "Devilishly Handsome Baldheaded Wonder!" LOL. Oohps, I am being arrogant again, let me shut up and get back to work.

MandingoNupe,
I am curious to know if you became a Kappa undergrad. or grad.?

I have to agree with you again bruh, A lot of people forget about the reasons for pledging and as I've said numerous times...Pledgeing is positive , it's just sometimes Hazing goes to far. And I believe that there is a difference.

The purpose of pledging is just as you put it bruh and i think that that anyone who understands your three points will not have to further question anything else

Bottom line, my soror is my soror from here til enternity

<<For some reason, and correct me if I am wrong, but most of the people who keep saying that you shouldn't have to go through
anything aren't even greeK.>>
--Well, I don't think that ANY beating, walking on-line, staying up all hours of the night doing ANYTHING, and allowing any sort of activity that's counteractive to your academic success at college should be allowed, nor should one's having to endure that be a basis of respect in a Greek organization, and I'm Greek. I do, feel, that there should be a process (very similar to the new member process I experienced) filled with education, bonding, and reinforcement of academic success as top priority. This beating stuff that's gone on is ridiculous, and it's not doing anything to better our people.

I entered The Bond at the graduate level, and AlphaChigir, you are more than enttiled to your opion, I just happen to disagree to a certain degree.

Sorry for the spelling errors.

I am truly saddened by the people who feel they cannot truly bond with others without a physical trial-by-fire. I believe a bonding experience can be just as deep if the people involved are strongly desirous and they are given reasonable tasks to accomplish. There is strength in learning and there should be no physical pain or deprivation in order for a person to become a sister or brother. I love my sorors because I can truly "count" on them to help in any situation--I know I wouldn't love anyone who "beat me down". But as many of you have stated, this dialogue continues many years after the moratorium on hazing, but the emotional and monetary costs are staggering to the very organizations we profess to love. So Sad. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif