Hazing Works!
 

Look people, Hazing works. IF you think otherwise you are being more PC than realistic.

The question is this:

Why does hazing work?

Any answers?

If it works, what does it work to do? And is it the best way of accomplishing something?

I can say 100% accurately that our candidate class is tight. The ones that worked hard and did what was asked of them regard those that did not do so as outsiders. We do have some newly established traditions in the candidate period but we were very careful to build them around the definition of hazing. If you asked our candidate class if they ere hazed they were not.

Now why does it work? Any group of people that experience trauma together are going to feel closer to eachother. Look at Vietnam vets or veterans of any war. They experience a similar comraderie.

The question is -- is it ethically right to force someone to do certain things? For Sigma Nu I don't thnk it has anything to do with what we stand for.. Love, Honor, Truth. Hazing is none of these things.

Actually that is not the question.

The question is what are the mechanics that make hazing work.

The mechanics that make create extreme primary group loyalty.

And from there we go to what types of beneficial experiences can promote the same bonds.

And from there we go to how to actually organize such activities.

And from there we go to how to incorporate those activites into a program.

And from there we go to how to we develop an evaluation system to judge the effectiveness of our program.

And from there we go to what resources are available for follow-ups.

(this is a general observation)

I wish everyone could think a little more outside the box and be a little more intellegent and analytical!

*sigh*

I can say that hazing to build unity in a associate member class works great..... at the cost of creating division and class rivalries in the entire chapter. Of course one is going to be very close and become a tight nit group if you are all going throuhg the same thing together. The trick is to get the class to feel part of the chapter as a whole. Why make them feel seperate and like they have to "earn" brotherhood, when by sheer fact that they come out and help the chapter is the cost of brotherhood. Greeks are being assaulted on all sides, by various people who do not see the benefit of Fraternities and Sororities. We need all the help we can get, so why do we make it harder to join, and stay in, our respective groups.

I don't think your comments here are appropriate. If you have a problem with my argument, fine attack that. Calling what I said unitelligent and not analytical seems to be exactly that.

I simply believe that YES hazing can work. It can have some horrible consequences when taken too far and if you get caught you lose your charter or close to it.

So tell me how that is good for an organization or brotherhood?

That was a very nice thing to say actually, but also very rhetorical and taught us nothing.

Hazing is used successfully by sports teams and military units, and they don't have a problem with artificial class divisions.

So since you didn't post in a proactive manner are you telling us that hazing works, but its just not done correctly.

Come on kids, why does hazing work and how can we duplicate it successfully?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 

Ok you guys are killing me LOL!

Review my response earlier where I say that my final statement was a general observation.

Good now apologize ;) for getting taking my comments far out of context.

Now let me try this again!


My problems with your comments, directly, is that you seem to get caught up with the WORD hazing. Like religion, or rape, or racism, its a buzz word.

I am trying for the nTH time to get an intellegent dialouge about it.

Now, what we are talking about, or trying to, is that activities tradtionally thought as hazing also seem to inspire a great deal of primary group loyalty which is what we want out of our new member classes. Right?

So, and let me state this yet again, what similar activities can we do that take the place of traditional hazing activites BUT still inspire the same primary group loyalty.

And then how can we teach those activities to our chapters.

AND how can we weave these activites into a program.

AND how can we set up a system that evaluates and modifies this system!

There.

If someone is not familiar with what I mean about Primary Group Loyalty please ask.

Good now I am going to go watch some PORN about cheerleaders :).

'Night ;).


And please be specific.

James,

Do you mean real hazing, or the PC definition of hazing?

Re: Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 

It's difficult to think that I was taking your post out of context when I was the only reply to which you could respond. Again I ask that we deal strictly with arguments and not argue about my intelligence. You can start another thread on that if you'd like.:D

As for hazing.. First before we can intelligently discuss something we might want to try and agree on a common definition. I'm sensing some sort of disconnect here. So please define what you would say hazing is and provide some specific examples if you could.

And yes, hazing does strike a nerve with many folks. They don't know why. For me it was a personal choice.. I wouldn't be going very far out on a limb if I said that ALL other fraternities at the time I joined the Sigma Nu colony were hazing. I joined because I had no wish to go through that. I felt it was beneath me and still do.

Anyhow... to address your question many national organizations have come up with excellent national programming. I believe Sig Ep has its "Balanced Man". Sigma Nu developed the LEAD program (stands for Leadership, Ethics, Achievement and Development). Our chapter uses ropes courses, lets the candidate class LEAD the brothers in running Greek Week and Homecoming. They run a social event, as well as their own fund raisers for their initiation fees.

Our Candidate Program is finished with what we call "Hell No Week".. (as opposed to Hell Week). Basically it's a week in which the Candidates and Initiates do things together like go out to comedy clubs, play capture the flag, hang out and parody other fraternity's hazing traditions. Our Candidates are very tight and since we're always close with them and their activities they are easily assimilated into the chapter.

Hazing has mixed results in the greek system. First we need to define hazing. I don't for one second buy that pussy-ass definition of hazing given to us these days that it's "Forcing anyone to do anything they are not willing to do. Hazing in the sense of the word most people think of it as is bufoonary such as forcing pledges to drink themselves retarded, or to make them do nude arobics. Anyone may agree that these forms of hazing are the extreme and counter-pruductive.

I am definately a proponent of the theory that some people NEED to be hazed; It can instill respect for their superiors in them, and/or make them understand they are being punished for something they did wrong. Some people just need a beeting that their parents were too ashamed to give them.

Some people already join with these qualities in an extent that is satisfactory or superior to what is required. Hazing them is a moot point and can actually draw them away from the system.

I'm ranting. So to post a final thought:
I think Hazing that is a tradition in houses can produce the desired results because the harmful practices have been weeded out. New chapters should be wary of starting a hazing procedure.


PS
No flaming!

I see where you are going with this. But I'm wondering why you or any organization would want people as members if you feel they are in need of a beating? Sure I meet people everyday that I think are obnoxious, rude, everything that I would NOT want as a brother or sister, and maybe I do feel like giving them a beating, but to me that just reiterates the fact that they would not make good members of my organization so why waste any time on them at all?

I agree wholeheartedly. My housedoes not haze. We also do not admit thosekidns of people. So it goes hand in hand. I was proposing this in defense of the houses that do, of which I know many, I have no beef with them.

I regress. One of the houses here beat the hell out of one of its pledges and left them in a football field for campus safety to find, they got their charter pulled and are trying to recharter. I will never vote for expansion if it means they get in. That wasclearly going too far!

Hazing works -- but not always!

The aspect of hazing that works is similar to the way that coal becomes diamond -- pressure, constant pressure, to bind the carbon atoms (in hazing, the individual pledges) tighter together, and force the impurities out (in hazing, the impurities are those who "can't cut it", or are the undesireable qualities of members that need to be changed).

What kind of pressure is used to change raw pledges (coal) into diamonds (shining new members)? Making them believe that once you get through a certain event (alive, that is), you will better understand the organization's ideal, goals, and motivations. The pressure is unyielding and concentrated, as all members are expected to support each other, and those who are not supported usually break away from the pledge group.

The behavior of the pledge class is also under pressure when hazing. If a PNM is telling secrets to outside strangers, pressure from within the organization will induce a negative reinforcing reaction from the PNM (i.e., pain from speaking, punishment when a secret is proven, etc.). Negative reinforcement, however, can cause those members to either lash out back at the organization (quitting), or being forced into submission. Those who are forced into submission are at a high risk of reprisal later (re-using the same hazing tactics on future generations).

The members who both had behaviors desired by the organization as well as having the strong bonds with each pledge class member should not undergo hazing, as modifying their behavior would decrease their current effectiveness (i.e., why was I hazed, when they want me just the way I am now?)

Hendrixski and Menacekiller,

Are you saying that pledge programs should be a little more individualized?

Because some members coming in will have most/all the desirable traits to begin with? I am thinking someone who both likes and tends be very loyal and productive in groups.

For those people any kind of long drawn out program would actually be counterproductive because it might change them or discourage them?

Not sure if this will come out right, but ...

I think team-building activities can be great for pledge/new member classes and also for the entire chapter as a whole. By team-building activities I mean activities that generate positive feelings towards each other and the organization you are wanting to be a part of (or already are if you are an active member)

However, I feel that hazing is just plain wrong. What kind of hazing activites are we supposed to be talking about here (when you say hazing works)? When I hear "hazing" I automatically think of terrible things like yelling at the new members, making them do things they do not wish to participate in. When hazing like this occurs, sometimes the new members do not fully understand what they are going through and may believe it to be the "right thing to do" which causes a chain reaction because they will do it to the next new member class.. and so on and so on..

James, you're being awfully nasty for someone who's trying to incite an intelligent discussion.

Definition of Hazing.

I think we have to use the PC version because its the one that will get us in trouble if we violate it.

But you know what? Not everything on the list will get you in trouble ,even if the "authorities" know you are doing it.

They will get you in trouble if someone complains about them, someone gets hurt or some claims damages.

I believe that hazing works to tighten a class, but not necessarily to find those that will make the best brothers or sisters. When I decided to go greek, I first pledged a local. Which hazed. (not anything physically dangerous) The things I was asked to do weren't TOO horrible, but it was definitely hazing and if my NPC org. did this we'd get our chater pulled FAST. But the only thing it did was cause the us..(the pledges) to complain about how horrible this was and how it was supposed to be fun. We would sit around at our study sessions making fun of our pledge mom and comiserating about the crap we were supposed to memorize. This is simple social psychology, people who go through a traumatic event together tend to bond.
However, the new member period should be, yes to bond within your class, but also to bond with the sisterhood /brotherhood and learn what being a brother/sister is all about. In my previous experience hazing didn't work to accomplish this. We were kept VERY seperate and were reminded all the time that we were NOT part of the group. I heard more than one sister say "pledging is hard to weed out the weak, or to see who will make a good sister" Well none of the stuff we had to do had ANYTHING to do with what you would have to do as a sister. I don't think making sure that you can memorize EVERY SINGLE person who has EVER been initiated into BOTH chapters of the sorority has ANYTHING to do with how you will handle the responsibility of taking on an office, or how carrying around a clock because you were late to a meeting will show how you will be there for a sister if she needs a ride at 3 in the morningor whatever the case maybe.
I think new member programs can be built around the fact since hazing does tend to bond people by giving them common (bad) experiences, maybe new member programs should think about bonding through fun events. I know our red rose or "I" week has a lot of bonding that takes place, but none of it is because of hazing, we bond because we are having fun together. I don't know if any of that made any sense or if I was just rambling... but hopefully you all can kinda make sense of what I wanted to say.
:)

Very true, hazing isn't "hazing" until you're caught or someone prosecutes.

===================

When I'm stating there are events that may have positive outcomes from hazing, I'm speaking from viewpoint that there are members/pledges who are:

1) not able to recognize a truly dangerous event
2) see the hazing a simply traditional, and that everyone goes through it to prove your worth
3) shrug it off easily or with difficulty, but in the end, they DO shrug it off and accept the event as having happened

Let's take an extreme example of hazing. A fraternity drops several pledges out in the middle of nowhere, naked, and tells them to find their way home. That's extreme, in my opinion.

However, certain U.S. military divisions do similar rituals in order to ascertain your "soldierness" -- you get the standard battlefield rucksack, are told you need to get to this latitude and longitude by this time, and then dropped off in the jungle by helicopter. Hazing? No, that's what teaches you to rely upon your squadmates and you are challenged to use your wits and limited resources.

What could fraternities do to take that example from the military? Not nakedness, that's for sure, but challenging them to use whatever important material that was taught to them during training/pledge period would be an excellent reinforcement tactic. I've seen some organizations use directons that are solely written in Greek; others, they taught the pledges survival skills as a workshop at retreats. others show the pledges their values and virtues by having an unknown alumni nearby that the pledges have to ask for help from -- if they never bothered to ask for help, they would have been totally stranded.

Are those things, above, considered hazing, if the pledges are given the same chance to succeed as a member would in that situation?

I have to somewhat agree with what Glitter said about hazing.

Your pledgeship/new member period should be fun or at least an enjoyable time and that should be why you bonded - because you had fun together; NOT because you were all scared and terrifed together over the things you were being asked to do; NOT because you were all upset over what the active members said to you and your new member class...

that's just my opinion anyway.

Am not! ;)

Sure, it would be nice to have an enjoyable pledge period, or else you wouldn't be joining for the right reasons.

However, as in life, not EVERY MOMENT is enjoyable, right?

Some people join because they think the organization will improve them -- what if hazing, in its own way, allows one to have better insight into how the organization came to be, and how it continues to survive?

Here's a thought,

If Hazing really taught respect of Elders, then when no hazing rules were brought down - why do some who had be hazed go against it?

Seems like hazing didn't really teach them to respect the Elder's decisions then...

In many cases, Hazing does reach the goals it obtains. However, it's comes to the idea of whether the ends justify the means? For many groups, hazing goes against the values and ethics of a group. Why would a group go against its own morals?

Hazing can be harmful and damaging to a person, and for that reason alone, it should not be allowed. Why any one would ever WANT to harm a person is BEYOND me.

And what is the PC meaning of hazing? What would you consider a more reasonable definition? Let's get specific.

Hazing occurs mostly due to tradition. It only takes 4 years to start a new tradition.

Many HQ's are coming up with non-hazing alternatives -- national chapter programming to help chapters to break with the old. I actually enjoy the fact that we have a great deal in common with Sigma Nu chapters all over the country as a result of our national LEAD program.

It's true... many chapters are still deep-rooted in tradition.. they're no less my brothers but I think that hazing really holds back the real potential of a group.

You should accept that there are viable alternatives to hazing. Some specific examples..

To build teamwork have your new members participate in a ropes course program. There are certainly challenging situations here but they are generally much more supportive environments. I don't recognize the need to tear a man down before you can build him up.

To help understand the value of hard work: require the new member group to hold their own fund raisers for their own initiation costs.. Have them ***COORDINATE*** a party -- by this I mean administrative, assign duties to initiated members. Have them take charge (while being looked over) of homecoming and/or Greek Week.

I guarantee you.. if you execute the above two items as well as following national programming while providing opportunities for new members to develop as leaders and as followers you will do well.

Individualized by chapter and pledge class. In my chapter for example hazing would be counter productive due to our size, and the overall size of greek population on our campus. And it would be wrong to haze some pledges, not others. They'd feel like the pledgemaster had favorites.

That's an interesting thought.

Sure, I know many people join GLO's because they think the organization might improve them.

Many hope to gain better leadership skills, time-management skills, and things like that. How does hazing help a person achieve any of that?

Like Glitter mentioned, does carrying around a clock make you better at time-manangement? No.. it's ridiculous to think so. That is what watches and daily planners are for... there is no need to carry around a CLOCK! :p

I'd like to know why you think hazing works. What does reciting the greek alphabet while holding a burning match teach someone about sisterhood, brotherhood or tradition? What does swiming blindfolded with your hands tied behind your back in the middle of the night in the ocean teach you about how to be a leader and a good member? Does the death or near death of a pledge cause a pledge class to become closer to one another? Probably, but it doesn't teach them anything about how people like to be treated, the history of our organizations or the role they play in the future of the Greek community.

Yes, there are some activities that are hazing under the definition b/c you have too go a little to far in what you prohibit to prevent people getting around the rules, but hazing is illegal for a reason. There are a lot of organizations in our community that have built up very successful new member programs that do not include hazing and are still turning out members who care about their organizations, know their history and want to play a role in their future.

Edited to fix some of my horrible spelling errors.

I don't think the military is a very valid comparison. Yes, both GLOs and the military want tight, cohesive groups. But a GLO is not about life and death like the military is! The military may train you by dropping you in the middle of nowhere. That really could happen in actual service. I sure hope that doesn't actually happen in the course of a GLO's regular activities, though. In a GLO, you really shouldn't be killing your enemy, defending your own life, or dodging literal bullets.

Hazing is ONE of MANY ways to build loyalty. It's not the only. Ever heard of the Stockholm Syndrome? I suppose we could skip rush and just kidnap the girls we want and make them suffer until they come around to our way of thinking. Sure would save money, since formal rush is expensive! And we wouldn't have to worry about girls turning us down! However, I really doubt anyone would seriously argue we should do things this way.

One question I have is, how much loyalty is enough? GLO membership is for life, but not to the death. A GLO member should be more loyal than a chess club member, but he doesn't need the loyalty of a super-secret government spy. That's why I think hazing is unnecessary; it's an unpleasant means to an end that is superfluous in this case.

What a GLO needs to instill in new members is a real sense of group identity - and an appreciation of the desirability of continued membership in that group. You have been chosen to be a Mu Mu; not everybody can be a Mu Mu; Mu Mu is superior to Nu Nu because we are prettier/smarter/more fun/less airheady/more philanthropic/less fake/more exclusive/better for networking/whatever. Hazing teaches you the difficulty of membership, but not why it is desirable, which is why it loses more members along the way: "All of this for a GLO? Forget it!" When a new member understands how membership in her GLO benefits her, she has an incentive to live up to her responsibilities as a member, be it showing up at a mixer or taking a drunk sister home.

And as to how to do that, thousands of chapters across the country manage it all the time. It's not like no one has ever done it before, so I don't see it as a great mystery.

Hazing may work in some cases and not in others.

Or it may work in all cases. Or none.

It may be dangerous or it may not.

It may make people better members/actives or may cause them to depledge.

It may work for the military and athletics, and not other organizations.

I really don't know if it works or why.

I do know it's illegal.

So, if you want to keep your charter, everything except the final sentence above really doesn't matter, does it?

Maybe hazing is illegal, but the definition of hazing is way too broad for it to be taken seriously.

Take other crimes like murder, theft, fraud. You have a set of what each crime entails that pretty much everyone agrees on. For instance, premeditated murder- you plan to kill someone, you carry out those actions, and they are dead. That's premeditated murder. (Don't start on first, second, third degree etc) The average Joe can be selected for a jury and understand that.

Now you get to the definition of hazing. Some people feel it only includes physical abuse. Some people feel it includes calling someone a pledge or asking them to interview active members. Some are in the middle. I don't think we are ever going to have an effective Greek system OVERALL until we come to a clear definition (not the Granny's-nightshirt-covers-everything definition of the FIPG) of what hazing really IS. I know that there are alums (myself included) who are very offended when activities they participated in willingly and joyfully are labeled hazing.

Well said!

well, maybe hazing in the extreme sense doesn't work (with which i whole-heartedly agree), but perhaps the current definition of hazing doesn't work either. maybe the current definition was made as a knee-jerk reaction to all of the extreme hazing that has caused people to die and to law suits. is there some in between?

i joined my chapter because it was the only one on my campus that didn't haze. i will never befriend anyone who has mistreated me. we had a marshmallow roast and movie nights, and phi meetings where we learned things, such as the greek alphabet and the creed. as phis, we were supposed to wear our pledge pins during waking hours, unless we were showering (or on our way to the shower), at a party, during sports practices or any time it was inappropriate (an off campus job, etc). i thought that was fine! some pledges (and that is what all of the other chapters called their new members) had to put their pin on their robes when they were in the shower...how silly. if i forgot to wear my pin, it was no big deal. if women in the other sororities forgot their's they would get bigger pins to "teach them a lesson." that is a perfect example of how a small thing can be turned into something harmful. one minute you are showing pride of being in an organization....and the next minute you are being embarassed in public.

so how do we improve the definition so that it still allows you to learn about your org, show pride in the group, and become friends with the people in your chapter? perhaps educating existing members on how to develop nm programs that focus on positive behaviors, how quickly things can be taken from good to bad, and how to set limits with chapter members to ensure that no one takes things past the limits. the new members should receive education (preferably not from a chapter member, maybe as a part of rush orientation or from alums) that there are certain things that are expected as a member of a greek organization....showing pride by wearing your pin, learning history, etc and that there are lines that will not be crossed by current members, but that nms are expected to do their part, too.

I agree wholeheartedly with Pinkyphimu and Lauradav. Most of the organizations that have created new education programs have tried to incorporate just those things that you both called for: sharing of positive experiences, simultaneous group bonding and integration into the chapter, education, and team building. Keep in mind that most of these programs are relatively new (in comparison with the ages of our organizations) and be patient with the ones that may seem to go a bit overboard in your eyes. Give it ten or fifteen years and many of the kinks will be worked out. I'm a product of a Kappa's new New Member Program, and it really does work.

BTW, does everybody know the Greek Alphabet Song? I just taught it to my chapter on Sunday and it's a great (quick) way to learn the Greek Alphabet while not holding a burning match.

I think that this is true of almost all statutory crimes. Look at the difference b/w murder and domestic violence crimes. Spousal abuse is a perfect example of a crime that is really difficult for juries, just like hazing is. Hate crimes are another example. Are they really any different than the common law crimes from which they stem -- aren't we really convicting these people for assault & battery or murder? In the civil setting, aren't we holding them liable for assault & batter or IIED? All that really happens with the creation of statutory crimes and torts is that we create new classifications for age old torts and crimes that people have been debating the definition of for ages.

As leaders in GLOs it is our job to educate our membership to promote our ideals without stepping over those boundaries. We all know it is possible, the challenge is to teach why it is important to work at it and succeed rather than taking the easy way out and hazing.

Here is what we decided to do when we had to pledge each new class: We sat down and wrote what qualities we wanted our new class to have or to add on to. Then we looked for ways to build all those qualities up. We never gave bids to jackasses that need a kick to do anything, so we knew each of our pledges was fully capable and would represent our letters well.

When I look at hazing I think of three things:
1) The sad fact that brothers are taking enjoyment in giving these pledges crap work and putting them through hell.
2) The pledges are being broken down and built back up. This is what they do in boot camp when they push you until you accept every order and start fitting their mold. I guess this is what people think makes a class "tight".
3) When the pledges sacrifice more for something, they feel their reward is even more deserved and valued. Those letters represent something grand to them.

In our pledge class, kids did each activity. The point of each activity is made clear from the beginning so everyone goes in looking to achieve the same goals. When there were problems, we talked to them. For example, if I saw a kid not wearing his pin I would fume up but I would tell him why it was so important to wear that pin. I would make him know that and from then on he became the model pledge.

I'm sorry but hazing is the easy way out. You can achieve the results you want without breaking someone down.

-Rudey
--Just do a search on the internet for trust building and teamwork exercises.

I've stated before that my chapter doesn't haze, and I'll say it again......my chapter doesn't haze.

But.......

Let's take the example of the often rumored "Circle the Fat" sorority activity. (For those who may not have heard about this, pledges are in revealing clothes and actives cirle the fat on their body.) So, all of the pledges have to do this activity. It is humiliating, degrading, and downright uncomfortable. However, I can see where this activity could build group cohesion. 1. You are not the only one this is being done to. The rest of your pledge class has the same thing happening to them. You all hate it. You rally together for emotional support to get you through it. 2. You know all of the actives went through it to. Also group cohesiveness. Though they might not say it, one can image they felt similar to what you are feeling during this pledge activity. 3. It would be extremely embarassing to have outside people to know that this happened. Whether it is for the fact of it happened, you got a lot of circles, or you could get in trouble for it. It creates a secret. That whole "we did something you don't know about" deal. It's XYZ against everyone else.

I do not condone such an activity. But I can see that "creating a secret" would bond people to one another. (Was that ok objectiveness, James? ;) )

Actually, I think it may be a very apt comparison. Bear with me a minute -- I'm thinking out loud (or on the keyboard).

There has been a lot of talking in this thread about bonding, and I think that is very important. But there is an equally important component that I think has not been addressed; at least if it has, I missed it. That second component is rite of passage.

American society as a whole is woefully bereft of rites of passages, particularly for boys: rites that mark the transition from boyhood to manhood. For many young men, fraternities (I am going to talk mainly about fraternities here; I'll try not to go too Robert Bly ;) ) and fraternity initiations provide such a rite. Indeed, the pledge manuals of many fraternities speak of initiation in terms of a rite of passage.

Globally, rites of passage in less "civilized" societies typically involve what might be termed testing, trial, or ordeal. That is, prior to actual initiation into manhood, the initiate must prove himself and his worth (to himself and to the men he wishes to join) by undergoing and passing one or more trials or tests. To be quite honest, I think there is something inbred in males wanting and needing to prove themselves in this way. Rituals (and here I am using the term broadly) that succeed for boys understand this and tap into this primal need. An example: initiation into the Order of the Arrow, a sort of camping brotherhood for Boy Scouts, is preceeded by a weekend-long "Ordeal" that involves no talking, manual labor (with others, which can be challenging with no talking), camping alone in the woods, meager meals, and the like. Upon completion, a boy feels like he has really accomplished something, proven himself and earned the right to be initiated.

Quite simply I think, where hazing "succeeds" (if that is the right word), it is when it taps into this primal desire to be tested and proved worthy, which in turn engenders loyalty to the group one has been found worthy to join.

How does the military comparison fit in? True, fraternity brothers are not about "life and death" in the same way as the military, but in a real sense fraternity brothers are about life and death. We talk in term of lifetime brotherhood, of helping and even protecting each other. When potential initiates go through "testing" together and help each other get through it, then they learn that they can count on each other no matter what.

So, to answer James's question, I think what makes hazing "work" (again, if that is the right word) is that it satisfies the need to be tested and proven worthy, and that in the process it teaches potential initiates to rely on each other and help each other in overcoming any trials. The challenge for fraternities today is to figure out how to accomplish these same goals in a way that isn't hazing.

My $0.02.

The thing with hazing is that 100% of the chapter has to decide whether they are going to haze or not. If you are going to haze then fine, its fun, but dont go crazy and dont get caught (nationals and campus' dont mess around). If you aren't going to haze then you should have some kind of dues that pledges have to pay, i.e. a high mandatory GPA, or no public drinking, or pledges have to do all community service work, etc.... You get the drift. Its just like raising a child, you and spouse have to decide whether to spank the kid or not, but punishment has to be given. You cant just let a pledge in to your fraternity and have the same rights and privileges as the actives in the fraternity. Well thats my 2 cents.

p.s. tough love always works