Dirty Rushing
 

My daughter experienced dirty rushing. As a result she did not receive a bid. She is extremely hurt and feels betrayed. I am not sure how to handle the situation. Any advice would be appreciated.

Recently?

Can you define "dirty rushing"?

And how did that action- whatever it was- cause her not to get a bid?

She attended a house all through rush. All the girls told her she was in. On pref night she asked the girls in that sorority if she should intentionally only write down one choice. Two members told her separately to pref their house first but rank 2 sororities and that she had nothing to worry about should would be in their sorority inferring only ranking one would be a problem. She did that and on bid day she did not receive a bid from that house. All week she was honest and vulnerable and they were intentionally or unintentionally lying. The sorority she received a bid from had made a derogatory remark to her so she politely declined their bid. We spoke to panhel today and they said the sorority that dirty rushed her needs to fix the problem and we should call their nationals. If we call their nationals it could create a blackballing issue for her if she decides to rush again. We asked if she could do informal but panhel said no. I truly do not believe that this sorority was malicious in their intent but that something happened with calculations BUT someone needs to fix or correct the mistake.

Oh, well--then she did get a bid. But I can guarantee that the first sorority can not and will not offer her a bid. They have no doubt made quota.

No member can know in advance where a pnm will be on the bid list.Nothing happened with calculations other than she wasn't high enough on their bid list. Having listed sororities on her card, she cannot rush for one year. The time to report dirty rushing is during rush. At this point, there's nothing to be done. She refused a bid from the house that wanted her.

Re: bolded #1. :confused: We weren't there. Don't know what was said. Can't even speculate. I will say that recruitment is exhausting and these are young women running on very little sleep. And I mean both the pnms and the actives.

Re: bolded #2. If your daughter attended pref, she was on the sorority's bid list. However, apparently she wasn't high enough on the bid list before they reached quota. Nothing "happened with calculations". That's how it works. It's math. And there's no "someone" to "fix or correct the mistake" because there wasn't a mistake. It's how the numbers worked out for your daughter. If it is helpful for you to learn more about RFM (release figures methodology) let us know. Because it really is math.

100% this. It doesn't sound like there were any miscalculations at all.

Now, perhaps there was some dirty rushing going on, but...

Your daughter asked if she should put only their sorority down? :eek: If that's the case, it sounds like she played a part in setting herself up for disappointment and perhaps made for an awkward situation for the active sisters. They might have even been pulling for her to join their sorority right up until she asked this question.

And it actually sounds like they gave her good advice in listing both sororities. Perhaps this was to assist your daughter in having a successful recruitment, or maybe it was to save themselves after she asked this question because it turned them off, or maybe it was for another reason entirely.

Were they in the wrong? Perhaps. Should your daughter have asked them that question? No - that was a discussion she should have had with her recruitment counselor.

We all learn, and sometimes it's the hard way. However, your daughter did receive a bid. She chose to decline it, and she has to live with her results and her decision. If she would still like to join a sorority, I would encourage her to try again the next time she's able and simply work on having good conversations with the active sisters, getting to know them, and letting the chips fall where they may without looking for the promise of a bid.

Good luck to her!

How to handle the situation? STEP BACK. This is not your rush. Your daughter should be a big girl at this point. Let her handle it. She walked away from a bid in her hand. That is certainly her prerogative. I can't imagine what they might have said to her that was so derogatory, but her choice.

Now she has to live with the consequences of her choice. She has a year to think about what to do next time rush rolls around. She will survive.

Maybe I did not explain the situation well enough. My intention was to ask for advice for anyone who has been in this situation. We are well aware of the rules of recruitment. She was told all week that she would be in the sorority. After the sorority girls on the last day told her who would be her big and what the date party would be and you are in for sure did she ask about if she should only write their name down because she was told if she did that a sorority would put you name at the bottom of the list. I do not think that is a bad question to ask if all sororities handle it differently. Her rho gams would not specifically know every sororities position on intentional bidding. Both panhel and an officer of the sorority have reached out to us to say the behavior of the sorority was wrong because they are trained in what they can and cannot say. As far as the bid she did not accept a girl in that chapter made a derogatory remark to her. I would not allow her to join a sorority that did that during recruitment. We have some of the dirty rushing in writing and witnesses to the derogatory remark. If anyone has been through this kind of situation and has any advice I would appreciate it. Panhel told her to contact the National chapter and the NPC. I am just not sure if that is the right thing to do. Please do not give parenting advice. I know she should live with disappointment and inferring that a 17 year old did something wrong is a judgement that is not needed right now. Please only comment if you have been through this type of situation and any advice you can provide in how to handle it.

You're asking sorority women about sorority recruitment. I think we all have some right to answer here. You asked a question, so we're providing responses. I don't think that any information you've been provided was in any way disparaging your daughter or judging your parenting skills.

Yes, your daughter asking that question of them might have turned them off or put them in a tight spot. Might have. None of us can say for sure. We weren't there. But again, that's what her recruitment counselor is for - to discuss her options. RFM applies to all of the sororities equally. And if she thought she was being dirty rushed, she should have brought it to someone's attention sooner and she shouldn't have asked that question of the chapter members that were dirty rushing her.

However, you ended your second post saying that you don't believe the sorority did anything malicious and you think there were miscalculations made. It was explained why miscalculations were not the issue.

Now you're saying there's evidence of and witnesses to the dirty rushing and you're asking if you should potentially send this up the chain of command.

Ultimately, it's your daughter's decision. But in my opinion, if she makes this a big deal now, she may kill any chance she has of joining a sorority. Since recruitment is over and she only brought this to someone's attention after she didn't get the bid she wanted, it may come back to bite her. Not pointing fingers here! But I'm sure that would be an argument made against her. But there's relatively few details for us to go on, so saying to do one thing over another is difficult without all of the facts in front of us. I'm not saying you should provide them all, but that's the position we're in here.

There is no such thing as “intentional bidding.” That’s a brand new term for this thread.

Also, stop pussyfooting around - what was the derogatory remark? Was it racial? About her appearance? What? Or did it have nothing to do with her and it was just something that accidentally popped out of a tired member’s mouth? It honestly sounds like you’re blowing this way out of proportion to have an excuse as to why she shouldn’t be bound to this sorority for a year. Maybe if she sat down and had an actual conversation with the girl that said it, the matter could be cleared up and she could get on with life and have fun in a sorority.

THIS!!!Don't take this any further. It will only end up working against your daughter, whether she rushes in a year or not. It might not be too late to step away with grace and dignity. Whatever you say to NPC or the sorority's national office, it most likely will not hurt the chapter, so let it go.

And if it's not too late, I would encourage your daughter to get together with members of the sorority that offered her a bid. It is much easier to see the real, day to day person after rush is over. She may find that she has a lot in common with them and might want to give pledgeship there a try. She has right up until initiation to make her final decision, and if, at that time, she feels no connection, then she can resign before she is initiated and can rush again. After all, she is bound to that sorority now until rush rolls around again next year, so she might as well give it a try.

Tdlegacy, every woman who has commented in this thread has been a sorority advisor on the local or regional level, plus many have also been involved with Panhellenic. Some of us are moms whose daughters' rushes may or may not have been so great. You would not believe the things we have seen or heard in recruitment.

Regardless,we can tell you that a bid will not appear now, no matter what kinds of proof you have. For now, her options are to remain independent until the next recruitment or to see if she can still pledge the sorority that gave her a bid. And I guarantee that if you get involved, she will not only never get a bid from the first sorority but that other sororities will talk and they won't want a member whose mom gets involved in the wrong way.

+1 to all the posts. You guys are spot on.

Another clarification although you said you are well aware of the rules of recruitment: that is not how it works. Only a very few people know the order of the bid list (usually the Recruitment Chair, her Advisor, maybe one or two others). When the sororities make their bid lists, there's no way they know if a PNM SIP'ed! That's way past impossible. How would they even know? I can't imagine any scenario that wouldn't stretch the boundaries of credibility. The PNMs are submitting their signed MRABAs with their selections in a completely different physical place. No interactions with any sororities. It's all handled in a professional, organized, business manner, and I believe the NPC RFM specialist is present for this process, or is available (correct me if I'm wrong). The sororities submit their bid lists separately. THEN bid matching starts (computerized, all of this).

No way a sorority can go back and reorder their list after it has been submitted. Ask me how I know this. Yeah. Mistakes made, oops. Then, voila! Quota additions OR COB, depending on circumstances. Oh the stories some could tell.

A caveat:we have had discussions about recruitment practices. Lots of discussions in the past two years. I'm leaving it at that for now. You can read into this whatever you choose.

This. Your daughter will most certainly NOT benefit from an aggressive mother at this point. Her best game plan is to keep her grades up, join an activity or two, and if she gets a natural chance to make friends with sorority member, all the better. A natural chance being having a class or an activity with a sister of any sorority, not just the one she wanted. Nobody wants to give a bid to someone seen as desperate or pushy.

You've gotten lots of good advice and information here. There is nothing to be gained by going to the national office, except for them to speak with this chapter with reminders about what can and can't be said during recruitment--which is not going to have any kind of positive impact on your daughter. As others have mentioned, recruitment is exhausting and emotionally tolling on both sides--but particularly for those on the other side. A lot of these girls are still teenagers and mean well and may have been saying all of these things to your daughter because they LOVED her and wanted her to list them first on her MRABA. But it is *highly* unlikely that any of these girls knew where she'd fall on their bid list, and therefore were not able to "promise" her anything--all bid promising rules aside. I'll never forget an absolutely darling girl that went through when I was an active--I loved her to death, the ultimate rush crush. I talked and talked her up but she still didn't land high enough on our bid list to get her. I was crushed, and I know she was as well. Fortunately, I had never made any kind of promise or implied in any way that she'd get a bid from us. I just don't see how your daughter has anything to gain from taking this any higher than her school's panhellenic office. They should report it back to the house, which would prompt extra "reminding" for the actives next year.

As a former Membership Adviser for more than one chapter and now serving on an NPC committee, the FSA at the school should report the chapter its national HQ. I would also say that the PNM (your daughter)should file a recruitment infraction against the group but I know she won't do it...from what you have said....as she would have to admit to having asked the question and all the campus would know -if they don't already. I think you have done all you can do. Anything else is up to your daughter.

May I add that if your daughter reports an infraction anywhere, she better be absolutely certain of the exact words used by the actives who "dirty rushed" her. That allegation is not taken lightly. There are very specific things that can and cannot be said. They may have tip toed right UP to the line, but may not have crossed it. Before getting anyone in trouble, it is important that the facts and specific statements are accurate.

33 girl
I used the word intentional bidding because I hate to use the word suicide. I should have clarified myself. The derogatory remarks were body shaming and laughing at her. It was humiliating and intimidating to have this happen at rush. My daughter was recently bullied by college boys about his so it is a sensitive subject. I am not sure what the girls intent was but the damage is done. My daughter made an appointment to talk to the president of that chapter. Nothing more she can do accept report the remarks however it is difficult to understand someone’s intent in such a short period of time.

Honeychile,
Thank you for the advice and response. I do not think she is being pushy she has been friends with several girls in the sorority for 12 years. She still considers them friends but feels betrayed if that makes sense. The perception of betrayal needs to be cleared up or the friendships will be compromised.

Thank you for your response. Yes you are correct. They did cross the line but I do not believe it was intentional however it did mislead her and sway her decisions during rush. She has so many friends in the sorority everyone is aware of what was said. An older officer has apologized to my daughter for the situation so I think we will leave it at that for now and see what happens the next couple of days.

OldFLDDD
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. She has many friends in the house and they were all talking about scoring her high so I genuinely believe they thought she was at the top of the list. An officer of the sorority apologized to my daughter because she truly believed she was getting a bid and understood what members were saying to her. At this point she will not make a complaint and was encouraged that someone admitted that they did not treat her fairly even if it was unintentional.

Titchou
Thank you for your response. An officer for the sorority apologized to her and realized that the conversations were not appropriate because they were misleading. I do not think she will report them because she truly does not believe they were being malicious it was just unfortunate the way it worked out.

Thetalady,

It was body shaming and laughing at her. Not sure about the intentions of it but my daughter has recently been bullied for the same issue so the damage is done. She set up a meeting with the Dorothy president to explain the situation. Hopefully this does not bite her in the ass later. Thank you for your response.

33girl
I used the word intentional bidding because I hate to use the word suicide. I should have clarified myself. The derogatory remarks were body shaming and laughing at her. It was humiliating and intimidating to have this happen at rush. My daughter was recently bullied by college boys about his so it is a sensitive subject. I am not sure what the girls intent was but the damage is done. My daughter made an appointment to talk to the president of that chapter. Nothing more she can do accept report the remarks however it is difficult to understand someone’s intent in such a short period of time.[/QUOTE]

So the dirty rushing was fine with your daughter when she thought she would benefit from it? Why wouldn't she report it when it happened if it was so clear it and objectionable? So now all her many longtime close friends in the sorority told her how they were scoring her? The more you add, the less believable this is becoming.

[/QUOTE]

Like you said, it’s difficult to understand someone’s intent especially in such an emotionally charged situation. No doubt this was a rusher who was super nervous herself and probably wanted to take back what she said the minute it came out of her mouth.

And for the record, the “modern” term for suiciding is “Intentional Single Preference” or ISP.

A sorority member made fun of your daughter's body and laughed at her? In rush? And they gave her a bid? I'm missing something here.

I'm wondering if you, as the mom, are getting the entire actual story from your daughter. It seems highly unlikely to me as well that a house would say mean/derogatory things and then turn around and issue a bid. Just as it is unlikely that so many girls at her desired house would assure a PNM that she would get a bid. I have two daughters and their words are often colored with their emotions and often they see/report things the way they WANT to, vs. actual reality. They will say "so-and-so said I was such-and-such" and I'll ask if they *literally* said that and they'll back down and admit what the *actual* words were, which were not the same. What they hear and what was actually said are very often not the same thing when I do some digging, and they see/hear things differently than I do, as an objective adult.

I am so very sorry that your daughter's rush experience was not a good one and did not have her desired outcome. My daughter's was experience was, and continues to be, SO very different than my own and has pretty much been one disappointment after another. So I get it--I know that you're sad for her and wish things were different.

I really hate that this gal came here for advise and everyone is cross-examining every word she said.
If several members voted her high and she still didn’t get a bid, it is entirely possible someone in the other house could have been derogatory but she got a bid anyway. Both situations prove it doesn’t come down to one person.

Thank you for sticking up for me. I will never post a question again and I hope admins remove this post. As far as the misleading comments some of them were in writing via text so no misunderstandings. As far as the girls liking my daughter again many texts and also most were old family friends so if they lied it would be really uncomfortable since I envision many future events together but maybe they hate her but I doubt she would have made it to pref night if that was the case. As far as the body shaming is concerned if someone mentions a body part it is awkward and people giggle because they do not know what to do. Think about it. Regardless of intentions it is inappropriate and makes some one self conscious. Please try not to doubt anyone that experiences body shaming. I assure you it is humiliating and know one ever wants to be that girl. Your doubt and opinions contribute to victim blaming which is not something a sorority should support. Again many thanks to those that left thoughtful replies.

You wanted advice. people gave it, you didn't want to hear it.

I hate to break it to you, but the women in the chapters aren’t programmed robots. They’re occasionally going to say things that are cringey, inappropriate, hurtful or flat out dumb because they’re under pressure just like the rushees - if they’re a small or struggling chapter, probably MORE pressure.

What happened with her meeting with the sorority president? The fact that this even was set up shows me they regret what was said. I’m not sure what more this sorority has to do to show they’re sorry your daughter felt embarrassed. They gave her a bid, for crying out loud - they want her to be their sister.

My daughter set up the meeting with the sorority president to explain to her what happened just so she was aware of the situation. It was not to get anyone in trouble it was just to have a two way face to face conversation. They had a pleasant conversation and that was that nothing more.

Well, they offered her a bid and she didn't want it. Not sure why she spoke with the president unless she wanted to rat out the members who insulted her bodily feature.

Carnation please stop making assumptions. We have taken peoples advice. She did not rat out anyone. She is trying to do the right thing (as was suggested by another on this thread) and my executive office and have a mature conversation. Nothing further has happened. Maybe the girls will be friends or maybe they will never see each other again. I don't know and only time will tell. All I know is she is a 17 year old kid who is made fun of constantly for something that is out of her control. It was brave and mature of her to face her insecurities and a learning lesson. Do you want me to tell her you inferred she is a rat so she is totally crushed? I have already apologized to anyone if they were offended by my posts. I am not sure what else I can say because honestly I am speechless.

I really don't care what you tell your daughter that a stranger on the Internet said. I assure you I won't be crushed. Nor should she.

And there are several of us who are wondering why she spoke to the president of the unwanted sorority. To tell her why she didn't deem them worthy of pledging? To tell her what the girls said about her body part? Something is really bizarre here and not adding up.

Back off, mom. She's at college and doesn't need you bulldozing for her.