Drinking in Letters . .. Damned either way?
 

There have been several threads on the issue of whether Greeks should wear letters while drinking, or whether letters should be on glasses that have an alcohol cannotation: You can have letters on a water bottle but not Champagne Flutes.

It seems almost universal that everyone agreed that drinking while in letters was bad.

After reading the threads I have some philosophical problems that I was hoping y'all could help me solve. ITs caused me some cognitive dissonance as I find that the reality is not meeting the image.

1. We know that drinking is not unethical, and not "bad" so why is not approproate to drink while in letters? Did drinking become "dirty" (like having sex with a close cousin) when I wasn't looking?

2. So since drinking is not unethical or "bad" then it wouldn't be against our core values, correct? Therefore doing a perfectly acceptable activity doesn't represent our organizations badly?

3. And what about mixers? There is an event we go to only because we are Greek and only because we belong to a specific organization. Its a fundamental expression of ourselves as social organizations. Shouldn't we wear letters there? We do make party shirts . . .

4. Or, are we so concerned about the drinking-in-letters issue because we want to falsely advertise ourselves? To do actions and then claim that we don't do them? Isn't that a funamental hypocrisy?

(edited to add)

So help a brother out and explain this stuff to me . . .. . ;)

James, I think the main reason we are discouraged to wear letters when drinking is good PR.

The Greek system (probably deservedly) has the reputation for consuming far more alcohol than GDI's. For many, that's the only face of Greek Life that they are familiar with.

So why reinforce this image in others that they would find objectionable? My chapter in particular has recruited some very high quality men by showing them that alcohol is not an integral part of our brotherhood. So many are turned off before we even get the chance to talk to them.

I don't think it's dirty, unclean or uncouth. It's simply for image.

IMO...fundamental hypocrisy. It makes us look like we think we are better than everyone else. That's what turns people off the most about Greeks...the snobbism aspect. Not drinking or hazing.

I know at small schools, everyone knows what group you are in whether you're in letters or not. So if you get drunk and act like an ass, no one is going to say "well, 33 wasn't wearing letters, so I guess that means Greek life is wonderful." The reason people stopped wearing letters to bars in Clarion was not a "moral" or "values" issue, but primarily due to an administration and town that hated Greeks (regardless of what they did) and started targeting people who had letters on. (Greek profiling, if you will) Meanwhile there could be a GDI 3 feet away puking his guts out with a needle broken off in his arm and the cops would walk past him.

If you would be ashamed to do something IN letters, you shouldn't do it OUT of letters either. Period.

I am tending to agree with 33girl here ktsnake, maintaining an image (PR) different from our actual identity is creating a facade(lying). IF we need to lie, that is not a good thing.

I have scene chapters present the whole gentleman, athelete, leader, scholar approach to PNM's when they are uniformly out of shape, aren't involved in leadership positions, and have collectively low GPA's, . . . it would be a surprised group pledges that bought that PR.

So is that the position of the don't-wear-letters-while-drinking-crew? That we should deceive for the sake of image?

Off hand I can think of at least two of my current brothers (probably a lot more) that were very turned off by fraternities that promoted alcohol.

If they had met a drunk brother (in letters) at Bennigans during rush or something they probably would not have even considered my fraternity.

It's not a facade, it's just something that we can do to control our image. Since no one ever sees us when we're out doing 'reputable' activities I believe it's sound practice not to 'represent' when you're doing something that's not considered reputable.

It's such an easy thing to do that I can see no reason why you would do otherwise.

The last I checked, drinking is legal for those over 21, and I assume Bennigan's cards...why on earth, then, is that not considered "reputable"? I'm not talking about being sloppy drunk, I just mean having a beer in public.

If your brother would have been so turned off by that, how did he feel when he joined and people drank? To me it would be like telling Suzy Swim Team while she is going through rush what an interesting sport it is, how we all go to the meets and would love to support her when we really could care less - how would she feel if she joined a group that didn't live up to their advertising? I know a lot of morality garbage gets slapped onto alcohol because of our Puritan hangover (oxymoron LOL) but honestly, it's the same thing.

Our chapter is very strict with not wearing letters in social environments. Even to the point that if our lavaliers are not turned around or taken off, that sister will be called to J-Board.

Its almost funny when we got to socials and the brothers we are accompanying are sportin' their letters like it's their job. In all of your opinions, do you think sororities are stricter about this policy then fraternities? Just curious:rolleyes:


"It's a PHI SIG thing!"

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners then cry with the saints...the sinners have MUCH more fun"

I think not wearing letters when you're drinking is less about the actual act of drinking than the stupid things you might do as a result of drinking. I'm not saying everyone gets totally trashed, belligerent, or stupid when they drink, but saying "Don't wear letters when you drink" is just a preventative measure. It's too easy for others to label an organization based on the acts of a few members.

I think it's fine to wear letters if you're having a glass of wine with dinner but having hunch punch or playing beer pong at a party is another story.

Sloppy drunk aside... It's still an issue of PR. The culture here in the Bible Belt may be different from you cEEty folk..

From my point of view, we still suffer from a very puritanical approach to this.

To address the issue of the brothers in my house that found otherwise once they joined... They were first open to the idea of our group because we were the only one that they thought wouldn't think strangely of them if they chose not to drink. One brother in particular stresses during recruitment with certain guys that he'll be the one at our parties bonging Dr. Thunder. For some, this approach is very positive.

Otherwise, it's just an image thing. If they see you drinking and that's all they see you do (because you do it in a public, conspicuous place) than that must be all that you ever do, right? A lot of folks think that way and we can't be blind to that.

My school in particular is also dry. A picture of a guy in his letters with a beer in his hand could get us all in serious trouble since my school consideres 3+ people to be an organization sponsored event (but please don't factor this into my argument, it's our situation and doesn't really factor into the overall situation).

At any rate, it's a decision for each chapter to make based on what their individual conditions are. For my chapter it would certainly not be a good thing to drink in public in our letters.. For others, it's simply promoting Greek Life. Who am I to say if it's right or wrong for someone else?

I personally support not wearing your letters when you drink. I don't drink for personal and religious reasons, so I don't support alcohol at all. Either way, GLOs are "famous" for drinking and partying, and that isn't really fair because not all groups/chapters are like that. But let's say a certain fraternity on campus has many brothers who get drunk all the time and do stupid things. People will find this out, and many won't take them seriously. It doens't represent Greek life in a positive light.

Also, many students like myself are opposed to alcohol for various reasons. If the GLOs on their campus are always drinking and are well-known only for that, they wouldn't want to join. On my campus, the fraternities that aren't famous for being drunk all the time are the one that most independants respect the most. Whether you think it's fair or not, it makes sense. Greek life doesn't have a very good image as it is; why make it worse?

My point is, drinking in your letters is like wearing a banner that says, "hey all I do is drink!", whether that's the truth or not. SAIs are permitted to drink in our letters, but I would be highly offended if any of my sisters did.

Yet another two cents from sairose. :D

I think its a matter of chapter decision and a on-basis measure in which it may be or not be appropriate to drink with letters on. At both of the campus's I have attend both of my chapters accepted drinking with letters on. It was more of a campus wide acceptence, most greeks(IFC only) wore bid shirts..etc...while at bars, it was never a huge issue at all. It wasn't considered taboo...but I definitely could see the fallout from wearing letters. Or maybe its a Texas thing I don't know....?? The thing I found very ironic was that the fraternity that supposedly never could wear letters while drinking and that were supposed to be the upholding gentlemen of the campus (were always getting arrested at their house for out of control behavoir because most of them were drunk and were synonamous for DWI's Etc.). I think that did more harm to their reputation than drinking with letters on. But I all in all would say it has to come down to every individual chapter to make that decision..not everyone is irresponsible and if members of your greek org can't make a sound judgement not to act retarded while wearing letters and drinking, then they really shouldn't be able to wear them at all..

drinking in letters
 

I was reading through all the posts on this subject and was suprised about all of the views about drinking in your letters.
The way that I look at it ( and I'm not saying drinking is wrong b/c I personally like to drink) is that out of respect for your creed, whatever fraternity that you are in, you should not drink in your letters. I mean, how hard is it to put on another shirt. The oath that you took during initiation, I'm sure, has to do something with bettering your self and your community in some sort of way...So this is the thing, out of respect for your founders (who I think were considered gentlemen on their campus and did not have the intentions of the meaning behind their greek letters being disrespected by things of unimportance like alcohol...) , I would not drink in letters...
Also, many universities in our country are dismissing Greeks on campus because of what they see, and what they see are Greek men and women drinking and causing trouble in their letters...could this possibly mean that you are denying the right to be Greek to future generations...and even possibly your sons and daughters. I think we should all think how much our letters mean to us, and the values behind them...before we drink in our letters again...It's just respect :)
BUT thats just my opinion on things...hopefully someone out there agrees with me ...

No problem
 

Well in South Louisiana drinking starts young because its primarily Catholic, and the laws arent enforced, so all the guys drink in letters, and only Phi Mu on our campus does out of the three sororitys. But they are feeling alot of pressure from the other more Baptist chapters in the state. But I laugh when the sororitys tell us we are disrespecting our org and our chapter.....Because its such a joke, our founding Alumni group drinks with us in our letters.....So it obviously doesnt bother them.....As for others having a problem who cares, anyone who is in a Bar is probably drinking too, so who are they to say anything. And I dont think it gives us bad PR, because most guys who rush see us huddled by the Bar and say who are all those guys in the Red Jerseys downing beers and hitting on women.....and we have alot of those guys see all of this and then come ask us how to join....I know that sounds weird, but it happens alot. So I dont think it hurts us....The only time we would rather them not wear letters when they are out is when we get in fights, and we have them take them off so the cops dont think it had something to do with the entire Fraternity, and report us to school.....So I got no problem with it....Plus all those girls that dont wear letters, and go out all dressed up....any person can spot them by what they are wearing, cause its usually the latest thing from the limited or some other store they all shop at, and then the fact that they are usually only talking to the Fraternity guys, or Football, or Baseball players is another tip off....Its all such a joke.....................

i just couldn't resist...
 

Hey TKEmz, I'm sorry, but I had to respond...when I was referring to founders I was meaning the ones that founded your WHOLE FRATERNITY...not just the one at your school...And another thing, you say that your drinking and talking to women gets lots of guys to see your fraternity, my question is...do you feel comfortable calling a someone a brother on the basis that he can get women and drink...? Just a thought...

Another thing, you say that people know who sorority women are because they were "the limited" and hang all over the fraternity guys...WOW what a sorority stereotype again...You would think being a fellow greek, you would give these ladies some credit...:)

Not trying to be rude, just trying to see if being greek to you means drinking/getting women...or having awesome friendships and sharing your values with others...? Let me know, I'm interested to understand your thoughts.

I, along with several others here, believe that the issue of drinking in letters is more of a PR thing than anything else. No offense, but I don't want to call someone sister who does nothing but get wasted and make a spectical of herself. I personally see nothing wrong with someone of age indulging in a drink or two, but how do you monitor how many drinks someone can have while in letters? Everyone has their own limit, and a no tolerance of drinking in letters prevents having to make that judgement call.

The object of G Phi is to develop the highest type of womanhood....I would think that falling down drunk while publicly promoting the sorority would be to disregard that object.

You got me all wrong
 

Alpha Xi, Go to Rankings part 2 and you will understand where I am coming from.......and as for the Sorority girls on my campus, they are exactly like I described them, just a little worse.....I left out that certain groups within the sororitys will only talk to and be friendly with guys from certain orgs......ie, some girls only talk to us, some only talk to KAs and some only talk to PKTs......It used to be we where only talked to by Phi Mu, but now we have huge followings in DZ at our school, and a couple in Sigma......Its really awful that its that way there, but thats how it is, we( Me and the other members of the IFC e-board have tried to have events, such as tailgating and joint community service projects, but poeple who go to them dont socialize with other groups....A lot of all this, goes back to where these girls grew up, and that dictates which group they hang with.....Its stupid......But either way, some girls like us and swarm us when they see us, and some girls hate us, and throw us dirty looks, we really dont care either way.......And as for our founders I dont know what they would think, I cant say how they would feel about it, they didnt write anything about it in our creed ...... either way we dont have any bylaws stating its wrong so who cares.............

PS
 

When did I say that we choose guys because they can drink and get women, you are putting words in my mouth to further your cause against drinking.....These guys are drawn to us somewhat because we have a bunch of women around us, but also because we are abunch of guys sticking together having a good time with one another and all wearing the same shirt, when you go into a bar of 200 people, and 50 of them are standing together joking and bsing it is pretty impressive.....wether you like it or not.....and we dont say hey this kid can down a fifth of jack he would be good in my fraternity, no because we have enough guys who can do that, we say hey he seems pretty cool, he wants to join, lets see what kind of person he is, and what he can do for our org. But either way dr5inking is part of the culture there and you arent gonna change anyones mind.......So I dont see anything wrong with it...and if its not in our creed to not drink with letters on, then how did you meet my Founders of mt WHOLE fraternity, and find out what they thought about it? Its silly to try to tell me that, cause we are not gonna stop wearing them out, we where them with pride wherever we go, wether it be in a bar, or Church, or to our Moms dinner table....People understand we are TKEs and we will do what we want...........

way to go Alpha Xi! Of course, I'm bias. But I agree in my chapter we don't drink in our letters out of respect, not only to our fellow sisters, but also to our founders, and our ritual.
Of course in my chapter we also don't smoke in letters, and we try to refrain from swearing in letters, but that doesn't always work!
It's not something that is from Nationals, and I know it's not true in all Alpha Xi Delta Chapters, but for us it works. I don't really even think about it anymore, If I'm going to be drinking I simply don't wear my letters.

Xi Love, and all of mine.

I honestly see ur point
 

Thanks Pollywogg...I knew someone out there HAD to agree some sort of way with me...and TKE... I Just think its a matter of respect, people will notice 50 guys having a good time in a bar if they aren't wearing their letters too, I'm just suggesting you try it and I understand that thats just how your campus is and nobody is going to c hange it...well it takes one person to start the process of change and people will follow, remember sometimes change is a good thing...And no i didn't talk to your founders, but I was just assuming your founders had somewhat of the same ideals in mind that my sorority's founders had...so...I know that we are based on values and things of that nature...and whether or not we go to a bar in our letters is not the worry of most of the sisters when promoting the sorority...we rely on doing things that will better us...not things that will eventually be the demise of us. And I'm sorry that the sorority girls on your campus are like that...You win some , you lose some...but please don't stereotype because we're not all like that. :)Thanks for sharing your opinion with me.

At our chapter, we don't have a hard and fast rule as to when letters can be worn out. Personally, though, I don't wear them out to bars or parties, whether they be huge ones or small house parties.

About the only time that I will be drinking in letters is inside the chapter house, since everybody knows me :), or the guests know that I am a Phi Sig. However, I don't see a problem with wearing my lavalier out to parties.

Some alums on GC and I have talked about this. In the good old days there wasn't ANY restricton (at most schools) about drinking in letters. Every Friday a fratenity had a TG and every guy wore their letters and most of the girls did as well, though some dressed for attention. There were girls throwing up in the bushes and guys releiving themselves behind cars, but the majority attending these keg parties were other Greeks.

Fastforward-There seems to be one or two soros at LSU that don't give a flip and wear their letters to bars. It is a huge NO NO for the others. Can't speak for the fraternities. Image and respect for their organization is the reason. I have to agree with KTsnake even though I also agree with 33girl and James about how it's not a true reflection.

It's like these boards. When I see people like Ktsnake, KSig RC, lifesaver, SigmaChiCard, DeltAlum, Tom, I notice what fraternity they are in. When I'm exposed to others in the same GLO that seem to have similar qualities, my perception starts taking form.
When you have a ton of great Sigma Chis or Sima Nu (AND OTHERS) posting, it reinforces a positive picture. ( Recall how upset people get when a screwed up poster uses a GLOs letters in their signature.)

The same can be said with FAR more import when you wear your letters in public. If everytime I wore AXO, I started a cat fight, fell on the floor or...some people WOULD extend the association. If everytime Tom wore his letters he and his brothers got stinking drunk and stated a brawl, that would would make a impression. It's easy to say I don't care, but it's such a simple thing to do unless you don't own any other clothes. If everyone behaved themselves this wouldn't be an issue. We all know that isn't possible.

Agreed, JAM and AlphaXi. :) In great part, it is a matter of respect.

It's also a matter of representing your GLO and the greek system. Like it or not, there are a lot of people out there who believe that the greek system is about getting plastered every night, and if you get plastered (or are even just seen drinking) while wearing letters, you reinforce that stereotype.

I agree with TKE on this one...I guess I understand the environment because my campus was sort of the same. It helped sometimes that a bunch of us would hang out together at the bars, it made us look really close knit because we all had a good time around each other. Some guys wore letters some didn't but everyone knew who we were and it did attract attention. As far as the girl thing...that was definitely how my campus is, chi-o's would talk to us...zeta would to, but kappa and piphi would hardly ever talk to us...to busy with the SigmaWho's (j/k)campus rivalry.

Glad to hear
 

I am glad to hear someone else on this thing has a similar position, and I applaud you for posting you real opinion......I often feel alot of the people on hear just say what everyone wants to hear.....But I think yall going nuts over this issue is retarded, I met with our Natinal treasurer at hooters in my letters and he said it was cool, and we got drunk and discussed a huge rush party I was planning. He didnt care one bit.....I think all of you people who think this is wrong are a bunch of idiots, because yall are the same people who got the drinking age moved to 21, and what did it do? It doesnt keep drunk drivers off the street, now kids go out and get drunk, cant call their parents to get them , and they drive home drunk.....Kids didnt stop drinking, they just started hiding it more, so it accomplished nothing, and yall are the same people who make your orgs less attractive to others by being so uptight about stupid little rules that mean nothing........Yall are the ones that are changing minds in the fraternity world into making them into Sororitys......Its pathetic......Yall wont be satisfied till Greek life is some boring foot note in history......I mean why dont yall worry about getting more people in your orgs, or making new chapters rather than, whining about people that arent in your org wearing letters out, its really non of yalls business..............end of discussion

WOW
 

WOW...that pretty much sums it up how I feel about what you wrote TKE...Did you join your fraternity just to drink or what...?? ANd by the way, just being respectful of my letters doesn't mean I was in favor of the drinking age being moved to 21 and all that nonsense about being "uptight" because , you know what, there are people that do have values out there and drinking is not their number one priority...(but still know how to have a good time) :)

I'm a little ambivilent about this for several reasons.

First, when I was in school, we always wore our badges or letters everywhere -- including bars. Some of the bars were even considered "Greek Bars" and almost everyone there had a pin of some sort on.

Second, I do think there's some hypocracy in not wearing letters to drink in a bar, but then everyone knowing that So-and-so got trashed at the Delt (or Sigma Chi or SAE or whatever) party last night. And that word does get around, doesn't it?

Third, in any given social event, someone is bound to know that you are a member of a fraternity or sorority. If you're worried about giving your chapter or nationals a bad name -- don't get sloppy drunk in public. Be responsible.

Finally, I guess, I don't recall anything at all in our Ritual about alcohol. I kinda suspect that, even back in the mid 1800's, some of our founders might have been known to partake in some spirits on occassion.

Frankly, I'm more worried about drinking in moderation and staying healthy and unhurt than whether someone sees me take a nip while wearing a badge or letters. In fact (Oh, if this were only the case), I think that if a Greek was always observed making good decisions about alcohol, it would be a credit to his/her organization. Of course, that's too much to ask, isn't it?

I don't have a problem with drinking in my letters if im going out to have a few beers, but if i know im going to drink a WHOLE lot then i leave them at home. I've only had a couple people make a comment to me about drinking and being greek and i just say, "well your drinking too....what does that say about you??" It usually shuts them up. Its not a big deal to me, if your going out for a few drinks then i don't see a problem with it, but if your going out to get totally trashed then i think they should be left at home.

what I was saying
 

I didnt join my Fraternity to drink, I started that long before I joined when I was in Highschool.....But I joined because of friendships I made......and you know where I met those freinds hanging out in bars......You know we have a saying down here on all the hobbies in this state......Their are only four things to do in Louisiana.......Fishing, Hunting, F*cking , and Drinking.........
Since I am not the woodsy type you can imagine what my past times are, and to do those other to you tend to hang out in Bars alot.......So thats the best place to rush people...Understand.........
You had your mind made up that you where gonna get all over me on this post from the start......and I really dont give a rats ass what you think of me, or if you like it that I wear my letters out or not, I will do what I want you can piss and moan all you want, and we will not agree.......Since you tabbed me as joining a fraternity just to drink, here is my assesment of you......You are the girl who comes in a party and chews someone out for waering letters, or smoking in public(because you feel its disrespectful), all the girls younger than you go oh darn here she comes and try to hide the tiny indescretions that they have been doing......Fast forward a month.....The younger girls throw a party, they dont invite you, why cause they dont want to hear your s#it........fast forward more..........You become chapter advisor.......because you seem to be the most responsable lady around them always following procedure............Fastforward more.....Your sorority has a party, a private party but its manly all your girls at the party.......Something bad happens..........Why where you not there to steer them in the right direction? cause they wont invite you, cause you would ruin the fun, all this could ahve been avoided if you didnt have your head in the sand.........You are the mother who doesnt want to know what her kids are doing when they are out late, not the mother who figures my kids will drink, so I might as well have them drink at home with their friends rather than hide it from you, and put themselves in compromising situations.........You are not living in reality and you are too worried about how things look from the outside towards your group, you should worry about the members of your sorority, and their lives.......I get trashed with my boys, I have fun time doing it, we get pretty crazy, and we do it all in our letters, cause people know what we are in anyways....but I look after my boys, and the guys older than me, ie my big bro, and some of my pledge bros, they look after me.......but if I went off on them for every nit picking little detail that doesnt amount to anything, like wearing letters in a bar, or fighting every once in a while, or getting crazy and playing pranks on people, or the school, they would not listen to me in those impotrant times when I tell them give me your keys, or dont climb on that balcony, dont have sex with that girl she is too drunk, or dont punch throw another glass window cause I gotta get you to a hospital........All of those are situations I have gone through with my bros and its a real pain in the ass but I love them they are my bros.......I know all of this sounds far fetched, but I live in Thibodaux, all the guys around here, talk worse then the guy with overalls and no shirt on the waterboy, and all their Dads work on Oil Rigs or shrimp boats......So its kinda a rough place, and when alcohol is involved which is all the time......anything might happen, and usually does......This is the birth place of Mardi Gras, itsa different society and a different way of thinking.........So that where I am coming from on this whole letters thing......Blaise

Every organization, and every chapter of each organization are all very different. Just because I don't drink in my letters doesn't mean that I judge you for drinking in yours as a matter of fact I've had a few drinks in TKE letters myself!

I know that when I go out with my sisters whether we are wearing letters or not people know that we're Alpha Xi's, so it doesn't really matter that we don't wear letters while drinking, I think maybe it just makes us feel like we're being respectful to our sisters by not giving off the image that the Alpha Xi's are a bunch of drunks. Because when your wearing letters people see that and not only form an opinion about you, but about the whole organization.

Cool
 

Thanks for keeping our image up, pollywog......

wow again
 

TKE- from the getgo , I've been nothing but respectful of your opinion. There is no reason to tell me that I'm the one nobody wants to hangout with because I respect my letters. In fact, I've got a whole sorority here that feels exactly the way I do on the subject...are we struggling for girls...NO, are we the "uptight" girls on campus...NO...so your opinions on me are completely wrong. I never called you a drunk , I just simply asked your intentions on joining your fraternity. That is good that you enjoy drinking and F*cking, that is great, and I;m sure that is all to do in your town, I was just trying to see your point through the whole thing...(which I saw it plain and clear, but still don't agree) So you are right, we'll never agree. Have a wonderful day :)

May I just say, please remember that all sorts of people read these boards, not just a bunch of kids, but advisors and perhaps more important than that, parents.

TKEemz894, I don't know if you are LSU or where you go to school. I do know that my daughter's GLO has had combined projects (2 fraternities/1 sorority) with TKE in the past. What she has said is not coming through in your posts. (I've asked her to read all this drama on different threads) She said TKE was a lot of down to earth guys, fun to party with and ALWAYS pitching in when some other fraternities just put the money down and won't work. (All the sororities have experienced this.) They like your brothers and yes, say you guys are CRAZY-but in a good way.

When you come down so hard on people and use harsh language, it makes readers wonder if that's how everyone is in your chapter, you know the "birds of a feather..." Almost everyone here knows that that isn't always the case, but others do form across the board attitudes. I was beginning to think that way myself until I spoke to her-She's really the level headed one!

Are one of the leaders in your chapter because you have a great deal of passion and most leades do? I just don't want to see people turn away or get so offended they don't really read your posts. You have made some excellent points, but they just might get lost in the delivery.

I will say there's a LOT more to do in La....but you're right, drinking usually plays a big part. And yes, it was neat to walk into a club and see all the guys in their jerseys. Delt Alum made the best case though.

edited-LOOKING FOR BOO-BOOS;) One or two or...

JAM,

Very nicely phrased. I might not have been so subtle.

bump

haha, i just remembered something someone did while wearing letters once

This is exactly the stance that we take. Granted, since our organization is different than school- based GLO's our policies are a bit different. In this case, we have no clear cut defined rules about drinking in letters, however our chapter takes the position that it's okay to go out to dinner and have a glass of wine, or a cocktail, while in letters, so long as this is done in moderation. HOWEVER, going to someone's loft party, or out to a club and getting completely hammered in letters is definitely NOT okay!

We don't drink in letters, eh.. it isn't a big thing. People just don't drink while in letters. Especially at football tail-gates and whatnot, people aren't allowed to wear Greek letters and drink. No one really puts up a fight, no one really cares.. it's definitely solely a PR thing here, but personally.. I wouldn't drink in my letters if I could.

Hell you might spill your drink, that would suck.

Jeff

UVA is trying to mess with success. Those darn independents!!!:)

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArtic...20408&pid=1178

messing with success would infer that UVA has a good football team, which they dont. i am sad to hear about the sea of orange though, a jacket and tie looks much better, as do sundresses on girls

Do people actually go to UVA football games to watch the game? I guess my friends and I better start stocking up on orange Lilys for our daughters. That way they can emulate school spirit AND good taste.;)