The Old Greek System vs. The New Greek System
 

Who here as a undergraduate member would want to be in the old greek system as opposed to this new system? It seem as though that the many many rules we have come to live by get in the way of the ideals that fraternities and sororities teach. Not to say that this is some sort of a rebellion against the system, but more of confidence vote on it. Granted the old one had problems, but so does this one. So let's weigh the sides of alumni and undergrads. I'll pose a question, I'll get the answers, and then we can see if the changes have done good things.


Remember, both undergrads and alumni/alumnae vote on this.

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully?
2: Did you experiment with drugs in college?
3: Number of socials a quarter (average)?
4: Average number of members at chapter?
5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member?
6: Number of times you drank in your house?
7: Rush Class size (average)?
8: Hours spent doing house related things a week?
9: Hours spent being enebriated a week?
10: Hours spent on the computer a week?
11: Year of undergrad membership?
12: Hazed? (be honest)

Okay a lot of these things seem to not pertain to anything. but you'll see the differences when the numbers come in. The hours thing is suppose to show what tudents do with their time in a week. I think older alumni don't understand the society that we (undergrads) live in today. They never had a cell phone, or a tv in their room, or had all these rules to break (So many rules so little time).

Lets see what turns up!

whoops...
 

Forgot a question:

13: Would you choose to live in the old or new system?

This was the main point, just forgot it...

1. Yes (but truthfully not that much)

2. Nope, never a drug (ok well alcohol is a drug so that)

3. 12-15 socials (at UM every org has at least one ting planned every weekend, even before classes start, cept for breaks of course)

4. 40 out of 44 girls at chapter

5. 25 if you're talking about chapter meeting,
as far as sororities its been an average of 17 NPC's and 3 NPHC's soros and 4 MC/Local soros.

6. 0

7. 900-1000 girls go through rush, rush classes are 60 girls. Average pledge/new member class is 45+. Our average since we were recolonized is about 20.

8. 15+ hours (I probably lived there more the my own place)

9. 6

10. About 6-7 hours a day

11. 2000

12. Never hazed at all (although I think it could have been funny to have 40-60 yr old women haze us. We were rushed by our IHQ)

13.Don't know much about the old, but I really don't have much problems with the new.I would probably go with old though just because their seemed to be a bigger sense of brotherhood/sisterhood and more people wanting to make it a LIFETIME committment and not just 4 years. People from the "old system" seem more proud to wear their letters be it collegians or alumni and not care what people thought.

Sorry had to change my stuff cuz I wasnt sure about some of the questions :)

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully?

No, age in Iowa (just across the border) was 19 when I pledged.

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college?

Nope - never before or since.

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)?

We were on a semester system. Maybe 2 a semester?

4: Average number of members at chapter?

45-50

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member?

Four (still is, too)

6: Number of times you drank in your house?

n/a - commuter campus

7: Rush Class size (average)?

12

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week?

n/a

9: Hours spent being inebriated a week?

No idea - usually just drank on the weekends.

10: Hours spent on the computer a week?

n/a - PCs came around after I graduated.

11: Year of undergrad membership?

1982-86 (pledged as a sophomore)

12: Hazed? (be honest)

Nope - unheard of in our chapter.

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Yes, but I did it before I went Greek, not because of it!

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? Absolutely not, and I NEVER have, never will!

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 4 per semester

4: Average number of members at chapter? Chapter total = 46

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 6 sororities

6: Number of times you drank in your house? No alcohol in the house!!!!

7: Rush Class size (average)? about 120 girls, very small number

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? You mean the physical HOUSE or sorority stuff? Clarify...

9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? <1

10: Hours spent on the computer a week? 7

11: Year of undergrad membership? Years you mean?...4

12: Hazed? (be honest) Not in my sorority, but in band yes.

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Once....
2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? Never taken a drug in my life..
3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 3
4: Average number of members at chapter? 24
5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? You mean other sorors on campus or other chapters of my Org at different schools ?? there are 3 other NPC sorors on my campus.. and 118 chapters of my org nationally
6: Number of times you drank in your house? don't have a house..
7: Rush Class size (average)? 7 (Mine was 4)
8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? I'd say 15 including stuff I do on my own to get ready for the next meeting or whatever.. maybe 10 out at a meeting or social or whatever
9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? .0000001 I drink like once every 3 months
10: Hours spent on the computer a week? around 10
11: Year of undergrad membership? 2002 =)
12: Hazed? (be honest) I pledged a local that hazed me... but now I belong to a national that did not haze at all..

:D
I'd have to say I"m VERY happy with my experience in Phi Sig.. but I don't really know what it would be like to be in the old greek system... so.. since I've had a good time.. I think the rules we're following now seem good to me.. but who knows..

Re: The Old Greek System vs. The New Greek System
 

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully?
yes

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college?
no

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)?
3-4

4: Average number of members at chapter?
140

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member?
11

6: Number of times you drank in your house?
none

7: Rush Class size (average)?
52-55 were class sizes about 600-700 went through rush

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week?
5

9: Hours spent being enebriated a week?
6

10: Hours spent on the computer a week?
none

11: Year of undergrad membership?
2

12: Hazed? (be honest)
no

Re: whoops...
 

old definitely ( I am alum, went alum in 94)

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully?
Yes,

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college?
No, and I dont think I ever will

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)?
6

4: Average number of members at chapter?
73 members

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member?
There are 5 other Panhellenic organizations on campus

6: Number of times you drank in your house?
We dont have a house here at my school

7: Rush Class size (average)?
21 one of us originally, only 20 innitiated (one left for money reasons)

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week?
about 9 hours a week doing things related to my organization, thats on a slow week, when we have upcoming events and important things there are more of course

9: Hours spent being enebriated a week?
I usually dont drink to the point of oblivion..and even when I do drink its not that often, soooo I would say maybe only a few times in the month if that...not a very typical thing to do

10: Hours spent on the computer a week?
Alot :)

11: Year of undergrad membership?
Ive been in my organization for 2 years now, rushed in Fall 2000

12: Hazed? (be honest)
No, NOT at all...

13. I have never known the old system, BUT from speaking with alums it seems that the old system brings about a new person, a person who has more respect for their organization as well as a person who really has alot of heart to put into it...the old system is full of many traditions that i feel the new system has kind of wiped off...but who knows...ill let the older alums on this board give their opinion...
but for now sure...the new system is good

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? YES, BUT THAT STARTED IN HIGH SCHOOL....

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? NOPE

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 3

4: Average number of members at chapter? 25

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 4 SORORITIES

6: Number of times you drank in your house? WE DO NOT HAVE A HOUSE

7: Rush Class size (average)? 10

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? MEETINGS, SOCIALS, PHILANTHROPY, ETC....7

9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? 4

10: Hours spent on the computer a week? WAY TOO MANY

11: Year of undergrad membership? 2001

12: Hazed? (be honest) NOT AT ALL

13: Would you choose to live in the old or new system? I WOULD LIKE TO EXPERIENCE THE OLD SYSTEM, HOWEVER, I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE NEW SYSTEM, SINCE IT IS ALL I KNOW.

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully?
Yes, but only with my ex-boyfriend. I didn't join my sorority until 4 months before I became 21 and never drank with them until after my birthday.

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college?
Yes, a couple times with my younger brother. Had nothing to do with Greek Life.

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)?
12-15 socials (probably 1 or 2 a week)

4: Average number of members at chapter?
25-40

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member?
4 sororities, 2 fraternities at hour school. 5 sororities, 11 fraternities at very nearby school.

6: Number of times you drank in your house?
When I didn't live in the house I drank there maybe twice a month. When I did live in the house I probably drank there twice a week before we (me and my husband) went to the bar...it's cheaper to drink beforehand, drinks at bars are too expensive.

7: Rush Class size (average)?
7-10

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week?
Are we talking about house as a physical structure or house as the sorority? Physical = 5 hours, Sorority = 20 hours

9: Hours spent being enebriated a week?
Maybe 4 or 5. When it was me and my husbands last semester of school it was more often.

10: Hours spent on the computer a week?
5 hours

11: Years of undergrad membership?
4 years

12: Hazed? (be honest)
Nope

13. Old Way

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? yes
2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? no
3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? we are on a semester system so there are usually about 10 socials a semester
4: Average number of members at chapter? our chapter has about 180 but I don't know exactly how many members the other chapters have
5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 10 sororities and I think there are 17 fraternities
6: Number of times you drank in your house? never
7: Rush Class size (average)? about 67
8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? I'm not sure....
9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? depends on the week :)
10: Hours spent on the computer a week? probably about 7 (an hour a day)
11: Year of undergrad membership? 1999
12: Hazed? (be honest) not at all

Answering questions from my Last School:

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? NO

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? NO

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 4

4: Average number of members at chapter? 45-60

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 6 Fraternitys-4 Soroitys

6: Number of times you drank in your house? NONE, not allowed

7: Rush Class size (average)? 100 Fraterniyt more for Soroitys

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? ? work or what?
9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? Just at social functions

10: Hours spent on the computer a week? 0 did not have back in my time
11: Year of undergrad membership? 2
12: Hazed? (be honest) NO NO NO

13: Old way/ New Way:

I feel the old way is better. We did things as a Brotherhood, no hazing of course, I would not allow it!

Today everyone has a computor, TV, Sound System and Refrigerator in in their room!

Try to find a group of Brothers in the Main Common Room having fun today!? HAHA!

You can do the new way and live in the dorm as an independent, but where is the feeling of being a family?

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Yes -- Beer drinking age was 18 -- Drank underage in HS. Also, Drank "high" beer and liquor before age 21.

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? No

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 8-10

4: Average number of members at chapter? 40-45

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 16 fraternities - 13 sororities

6: Number of times you drank in your house? Once or twice in upperclassmen's rooms. Our parties (even way back then, were mostly third party vendors

7: Rush Class size (average)? 12-15

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? 8

9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? Only been really drunk a couple of times in my life. Impaired? Not many, really.

10: Hours spent on the computer a week? Didn't have PC's in the 60's.

11: Year of undergrad membership? 1966

12: Hazed? (be honest) Yes, under today's definition(s)

13: Would you choose to live in the old or new system? Either -- social traditions change with the times.

Re: The Old Greek System vs. The New Greek System
 

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully?
Yes, but very little
2: Did you experiment with drugs in college?
Nope
3: Number of socials a quarter (average)?
Three
4: Average number of members at chapter?
45
5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member?
Nine sororities, Eleven fraternities
6: Number of times you drank in your house?
Maybe seven? But they were unofficial.
7: Rush Class size (average)?
12
8: Hours spent doing house related things a week?
At least ten
9: Hours spent being enebriated a week?
Never
10: Hours spent on the computer a week?
Too many to count
11: Year of undergrad membership?
Initiated in 1999
12: Hazed? (be honest)
Nope
13: New/Old?
I've definitely noticed the shift in the past three years.
I think there are good things about the old and the new...
I think the new would be okay if it would relax a little.
It seems that a lot of the fun has gone out of it and it's a lot more about rules

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully?
No, I joined my freshman year, when I was 18. I did not drink until I turned 21. I was offered, but I decided of my own will, not to. And I was not pressured to do it.

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college?
besides drinking? no.

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)?

"socials?" I'm guessing exchanges, parties, etc..

well, we are on a trimester, and throw a party an average of every 3 weeks, have two sororities, and do one exchange a year(with each) and get serniaded 1 time a term by each.

4: Average number of members at chapter?

before rush: 20-25. After rush: 30-40
Currently: 32

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member?
on my campus: 5 fraternities, 2 sororities. IN the past, before my time, it was 7 and 5.

6: Number of times you drank in your house?
um. it's legal to. so I don't know.

7: Rush Class size (average)?
12-15

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week?
oh my. A lot. But thats my own choice to be so involved.

9: Hours spent being enebriated a week?
some weeks, none. Others, 4? maybe a little more on the random occasion.

10: Hours spent on the computer a week?
because of work(I work in a computer lab) and homework, I'd say at least 5 a day.

11: Year of undergrad membership?
1999(there is no fall term rush)-

12: Hazed? (be honest)
Not even once.

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Yes

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? Before college

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? six on semester basis

4: Average number of members at chapter? 15

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? eight fraternities, four sororities

6: Number of times you drank in your house? too many to count

7: Rush Class size (average)? 4

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? about 15

9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? 6-8 hours

10: Hours spent on the computer a week? about 10

11: Year of undergrad membership? 2001- (second year)

12: Hazed? (be honest) No

13. Old or New? Personally, I like the new system. I have heard crazy things from alumni in the past that sounded like a lot of fun, but could have had serious consequences. I think the aspect of brother/sisterhood has not been adversely affected by computers and televisions and stuff like that.

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Yes
2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? No
3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? Three
4: Average number of members at chapter? 30
5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 5
6: Number of times you drank in your house? No house
7: Rush Class size (average)? 6
8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? 6?
9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? 2
10: Hours spent on the computer a week? 20?
11: Year of undergrad membership? 4
12: Hazed? (be honest) No way
13: Old or new? I'm not sure I understand the question. The system has been evolving ever since Phi Beta Kappa was formed over 200 years ago. Where are we drawing a line?

1: Yes
2: Nope
3: 5
4: 30
5: 4 other pha chpaters
6: We don';t have a house
7: 8
8: 5-10
9: 0-4
10: 20
11: Fall of 2000
12: No
13: I prefer what I have always known...I love it and wouldn't have it any other wya

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Yes, but it started in H.S.

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? Yes once, but not as a result of being greek (with non-greeks)

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 2 or 3

4: Average number of members at chapter? 125

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 7 sororities, 13 fraternities

6: Number of times you drank in your house? Did not have a house.

7: Rush Class size (average)? 30

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? about 15, more when I was an officer.

9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? 6-8 hours (weekends)

10: Hours spent on the computer a week? about 25(My Major)

11: Year of undergrad membership? 1994

12: Hazed? (be honest) No Way

13. Old or New? Old. I was the first NM class to go through the 8 week instead of the 2 quarter pledge process. You started noticing minor changes in sisterhood after that, but as all of the new stuff came / comes down you start noticing major changes.

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Yes, of course I still am in college.
2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? No, will not ever touch those.
3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 4 or 5
4: Average number of members at chapter? 100 per house
5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 4 chapters (sorors) and 6 frats
6: Number of times you drank in your house? 1
7: Rush Class size (average)? 35
8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? 2 or 3
9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? 4 or 5 per Friday or Saturday
10: Hours spent on the computer a week? dunno, a lot
11: Year of undergrad membership? 2000
12: Hazed? (be honest) Nope, not a bit
13: I wish the rules were a little more relaxed. I think some "hazing" can be fun.

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Every once in a while.

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? Never.

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 3 with other organizations, + 2-3 sisterhood socials (We were on semester system)

4: Average number of members at chapter? 53

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 3 on my campus

6: Number of times you drank in your house? No house.

7: Rush Class size (average)? Does this mean # of women going through rush, or number of women pledged in our chapter? We averaged 100 rushees, quota was usually b/t 22-30

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? 10+

9: Hours spent being inebriated a week? Less than once a week…

10: Hours spent on the computer a week? Alas, I was in college pre-PC’s

11: Year of undergrad membership? 88-92

12: Hazed? (be honest) Not in the least.

13: Would you choose to live in the old or new system? Hard to say what the differences are...My chapter tended to comply with rules and regs in the strictest sense of the word, so much so that even our HQ told us we were reading things a little too literally…so I don’t think much has changed since then…we had a strong sisterhood, and from what I have observed in my chapter, and the collegiate chapters of other organizations I have been exposed to recently, I think I would be happy in either system…although I think the pledge period has become a little too abbreviated… Bottom line, I think those chapters that concentrate on the sisterhood/brotherhood are, and will always remain, the strongest—those that worry about narrower things like constant partying, and getting around risk management policies, etc. will not last.

Re: The Old Greek System vs. The New Greek System
 

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Yes, most weekends
2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? Haven't yet, probably won't.
3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? I'm guessing by social you mean with another house. We don't have any rules on the number we can have...becomes more a budgetary issue. First Semester we had probably 4 date parties, "froshes" (which are mixers with the pledge classes of one fraternity and one sorority) nearly every thursday so that was probably 9 times or so. Then on about a third of the home football weekends we had a barbeque before the game with the sorority that was in our block so that's another 2-3. Throw in formal, and three other theme parties and I guess for first semester it was more than 20 total. However for second semester it was less b/c of budgetary issues...probably only had about 10 total.
4: Average number of members at chapter? 55 out of 84 members
5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member?18 IFC (plus more 3 chapters on either suspension or nearly extinct) 4 NPHC, 14 NPC, 2 MCGLO.
6: Number of times you drank in your house? Never
7: Rush Class size (average)? You mean for the entire university? I have no idea...
8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? probably 5-8
9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? 12 hours total over the course of the weekend (obviously not counting sleeping time)
10: Hours spent on the computer a week? For homework, or just anytime??? For homework probably 1-3...anytime (including GC) more like 20
11: Year of undergrad membership? Fall 2001
12: Hazed? (be honest) Absolutely not

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Yes, on occasion
2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? Other than alcohol, no.
3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 4-5 per semester
4: Average number of members at chapter? around 30
5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 5 sororities, about 25 fraternities, 5 coed groups
6: Number of times you drank in your house? N/A, no house
7: Rush Class size (average)? Formal rush: quota was around 30, we typically had around 10. Informal rush: 1 or 2
8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? 10-15 depending on which offices I held at the time
9: Hours spent being inebriated a week? Only got drunk on rare occasion
10: Hours spent on the computer a week? A lot - I majored in computer science after all :)
11: Year of undergrad membership? 1993-1997
12: Hazed? (be honest) I don't feel I was hazed, but some of the things I was asked to do (pledge project, etc) would be considered hazing today.
13: Old/New: A combination. For instance, the more egregious types of hazing (degradation, forced consumption of alcohol, etc) needed to go, but they threw the baby out with the bath water... how is asking your new members to put together a potluck dinner "hazing"?

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Yes

2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? No

3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 5 per semester

4: Average number of members at chapter? About 30

5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 4 sororities, 6 fraternities

6: Number of times you drank in your house? A lot....

7: Rush Class size (average)? Open recruitment usually gave sororities 1 - 5 people; formal recruitment was anywhere from 9 to 16 when I was there

8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? 20; I had a lot of offices!

9: Hours spent being inebriated a week? 2

10: Hours spent on the computer a week? 5

11: Year of undergrad membership? 1998-2002

12: Hazed? (be honest) Nope

13: Old/New: Old; as in the fun days where you didn't have to worry that hurting someone's feelings was going to land you in jail; I don't think I would like to have been beaten or made to drink until I puked, but the rules are just too strict now!

1. Yes but not at a KD function
2. Never in my life
3. 1-3 per week, 1 Formal or semiformal...ECU is a party school and they do not see issues with that many parties...ask them when they study, who knows!
4. 65 was total
5. 9 NPC groups APhi, ZTA, SSS, KD, Chi O, DZ, AOPi, AZD, ADPi
6. Never had a house and wouldn't have if we did!
7. Mine was 57 during colonization...average would be 10-20...depends on how many graduates...
8. Too many hours to count, was on PH Exec as well
9. Not many...too little to count
10. Too many to count, at least a few a day in the computer lab
11. 3 in a local and 1.5 in KD from Colonization to graduation
12. NEVER
13. Old vs. New? NEW! With so many risk mgmt. issues today the rules set everyone straight and keep our members safe. Although you have to be more creative to find the balance b/w safe and fun, we still had a great time! I wouldn't trade any of my Greek life for anything, but the switch from local to national was an eye opener and I can see why the new system is what is best for all our groups.

1. Yes I drank unlawfully in college.....

2. Drugs....? Well I believe I may have smoked pot once or twice early in college, and then never touched drugs again. My big "experimenting" was in high school.

3. Number of socials......this is a toughie.....maybe 3 or 4 official ones on the calendar, but there were always others.

4. Average # of members at chapter......probably 80 to 100

5. Total chapters.....2 local sororities, 6 NPC sororities, 13 IFC fraternities

6. Number of times I drank in my house.....only 1 or 2

7. Rush class size.....I rushed with 500 other women, my pledge class was 48 (that was down considerably from the previous year.) Fraternity rush was much less structured and class size varied but was much smaller than the girls'.

8. Hours spent doing house-related things....on average maybe 20

9. Hours spent inebriated per week??? Maybe 4-5

10. Hours on the computer per week??? Less than 2

11. Undergrad membership....1990-1994

12. Hazed.....well some things happened that would be considered hazing by others but to me they were fun.....I was never made to feel uncomfortable or upset......

13. Old vs. New.......I would pick the old system ANYday. I really think we just had so much more fun then. I think I was one of the very last of the "old schoolers" because things were just starting to change right after I left. I am an advisor now and I can't believe the crap that is going on. I can't believe all the rules, all the things that have changed, all the old traditions that have been ruined, and the general apathy of the members. Nobody wants to be involved anymore and it sure is no surprise to me.....what incentive do they have? They aren't allowed to do anything!!!

A little message about answers to some questions
 

Being the person who started this, I should probably say something about this.

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? yes
2. Did you experiment with drugs in college? No, just revisited from HS
3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 2
4: Average number of members at chapter? 40 guys in our house
5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 16 sororoties, 28 fraternities
6: Number of times you drank in your house? 0
7: Rush Class size (average)? 8 a couple of years ago, now they will be around 20 or so average
8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? 25 hours, House Manger and Event Chair
9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? 10-12
10: Hours spent on the computer a week? 15 or so
11: Year of undergrad membership? In my sorority? 2001-present
12: Hazed? No
13. Old system or New system? Old

As you can see if you read these posts. People seem to be unhappy with "all the rules". Many people in my house have agreed that we are leaving a age of conservatism and entering a age of liberalism. Anyone agree? It's time for a reelection, anyone with me? I thought this would be a good way to find out what is happening around the country. To hear an advisor say that the rules are too strict and creating less brotherhood/sisterhood is amazing to me as a undergrad. Its my senior year and I'll soon be an alum, we'll see what happens in the future

Jay: 1st...thanks for starting this topic it has been interesting! 2nd..if an advisor would say that the rules hurt brotherhood/sisterhood then maybe it hasn't sunk in? I would think accidents that were the chapter's fault would hurt sisterhood more so then playing by the rules...

I'm an Alumnae Association President and since I am the youngest out of the bunch, I have to explain lots of new policy and such to the older members who came before the new system, if you will...

I find the rules rough at times, and yes they do take time to get used to and if you are used to not being so strict then it seems like a 100% change. BUT, I came from a local organization to a national one, a true change and we were "pitched" the changes in a positive light so we never really thought about it.

Exactly what are the major issues we have problems with? New social policy...risk mgmt in general....hazing..what is it that sucks, or is it the mentality that it is hard now and that instead of putting our time and effort into making it work we put our time and efforts into saying and gripping about how we dislike it?

I think national organizations find that chapter to chapter and campus to campus we all deal with it differently and we have to educate instead of dictate...I think more education would be the key to solving these debates.

Or maybe it means that the advisor has an opinion of their own that was formed from their experience and doesn't concur with that of the national organization. That is allowed, last I checked.

More of a social issue than any other
 

Rules are Rules and laws are laws. A rule is a thing created by an organization that constricts things that we should (by our laws) have a right to do. I think these things that we are doing to our chapters are rules that are not needed. I agree we should deal with things on a chapter by chapter basis. Certain areas and chapters have certain problems. Why not deal with them by themselves as having national rules set to fix the problem which in turn hurt other chapters that havn't had any problems with the issue. For the most part I think this is how things are dealt with.

Getting back to the main issue though. Why do so many people think the old system was better. A lack of brotherhood/sisterhood. Believe it or not a lot of problems stem from too many rules. My house feels like a place where people live. Not a huge amount of brotherhood. Why? I have more rights if I live out of the house than if I live in. Not to sound dramatic, but our nation was formed on a platform of freedom which has been burrowed into our head for our whole lives. To give up rights to live in a place where we lose certain rights just to be able to be part of a organization which promotes brotherhood or sisterhood seems kinda ludicrious.

What I am saying is that there are problems. When you ask people straight out would you live in a 1970 house or a house today and they say the 1970, there is obviously something wrong. How do you fix it though? I'm not an alumni. I'm not a powerful person nationally. The main point was to get people(alumni) to think about what they are doing to their chapter by passing a bunch of rules.

Nothings perfect don't try to make it that way.

Thats just my two sense

33: Yes I think we are all allowed to have our own opinons. But I think if you take the responsibility to advise a chapter of your organization it does no good for that chapter or organization to voice your issues with the college members. You see, as advisors we should be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and sometimes that light may be a little off of what you deem 100% correct, but as a card caring member of that organization you must support the rules and regualtions and teach the members you chose to advise to do the same. I am not say thing that if you disagree then just live with it, but if you have a legitimate concern bring it up to someone who can start change not a college member who has to follow the rules...and cannot do much about it form their position...does that make sense?

Jay: I do see your point about the 1970 house or now...BUT, don't you think we need to put blame on society and how today we can be sued for just about anything and lose a chapter...I think many of the rules steam from accidents where instead of looking at personal responsiblity it has gone to, your chapter made my son drink to death, or fall to his death and so on...you never hear well, no one forced it, he did chose to do it the victim is never at fault.....
On the freedom standpoint, well as I have been known to say before, you can do anything you want, but you cannot be Greek and do anything you want. You chose to be a represenative of your organization and when there is more than just you, one person at stake you really have to see the big picture and it isn't about how this makes you feel it is about moving with the times and keeping us all safe and our organiztions running into the future. How many more chapter closings(usually b/c of hazing or drinking violations) will we have to see until our members realize that we have to change the way we do things in order to stay around?

There is a point in your life that you have to see that times change and that means you too.You couldn't work for a big company and not follow some rules just b/c you didn't like them...that would get you fired...same thing, we need to respect what is happening and move on, it may mean more work and more time thinkng of creative things to end up with the same results, but isn't that why we all joined GLOs? If I wanted to do whatever I would have stayed independent...To me peolpe who join to get recpect need to earn it, and by showing the rest of the world we cannot even follow our own rules or the law for that matter, what are we showing the world?

Understood. Lets look at it this way. Just because a house doesn't drink or haze doesn't mean that their charter will be taken. I have seen instances where our house was in jeopardy for other things beyond those two things. We recently went to a Risk Managment speaker (forgot his name, but was a judge) and he spoke about those things. They don't apply to us. Not in the least. We don't drink at all. We don't haze at all. There is still risk managment. Just other things. To treat a chapter like other chapters is not smart. We have problems, but not like any other chapter I've seen. A broader range of "Risk Managment Issues need to be realized in order to make our organizations safer. Why though? There will always be stupid decisions made by smart people. I just hate to see people blame things on organizations than take matters up with "the victim". Really the main argument is the scope needs to be broader if you are going to crack down on things

The scope needs to be broader...I agree with that Jay!

Now how do you think we deal with that? You mean more case by case issues? How would that work if some chapters don't have to play by all the rules? Do you mean special permission and such?

Re: The Old Greek System vs. The New Greek System
 

1: Did you drink in college unlawfully? Yes
2: Did you experiment with drugs in college? Smoked some weed
3: Number of socials a quarter (average)? 15 per semester (Thursday nights!)
4: Average number of members at chapter? 35
5: Total number of chapters during your time as a member? 10
6: Number of times you drank in your house? Too many to count, but it's an unofficial house
7: Rush Class size (average)? 100-150 then; this semester, it was 50
8: Hours spent doing house related things a week? a lot
9: Hours spent being enebriated a week? ummm...10
10: Hours spent on the computer a week? ummm...5
11: Year of undergrad membership? pledged 1993
12: Hazed? (be honest) Nope
13. Funny thing is that the old system still exists in many ways on the campus I attend. Fraternities still have huge house parties and mixers at their houses. Even some sororities have parties, because none of the houses are official. Hazing is pretty much the norm, although our chapter didn't and were criticized for it. If I had to choose, I'd like the fun of my system, without all the hazing of the other groups.

If I'm an advisor and a collegian says to me that they think (example) our everyone has to live in house policy sucks, I'm not going to say "well, that is the national policy, follow it and deal." I'm going to say "tell me your concerns, what effect it could have on the group overall, we have to follow it for now but we can try to change it." What good would I be as an advisor if I didn't try to help sisters grow as independent women and teach them to speak their minds? What good would I be if I swallowed any of my objections and sat there saying things I don't believe?

I'm very sorry if you believe that collegians "can't do much from their position" - that's not something any member of a Greek group should feel. Maybe the national officers and volunteers run the sorority, but the collegians are the ones maintaining, growing and financing it. If college chapters really hate something, and band together, the officers of the org have no choice but to listen. Most real change - the kind that actually changes cultures and lifestyles - starts at the bottom, not the top.

33: They post was about an advisor out right saying that he didn't agree with the regluations. I am not saying that as advisors we need to say put up or shut up. What I am saying is that as advisors we need to show the regulations in a positive light in order for them to be followed and even followed with actually understanding. It would be close to impossible to think that all regualtions please 160,000+ members, but that doesn't mean that every little thing we dislike needs to be changed.

College members can complain all they wish, but on a national level the seasoned members that have been in college, been working with colleges, and have a grasp on the entire big picture are the officers that will be taken more seriously and in fact are the ones who initiate the regualtions. That in no way puts down college members, but even in a job situation, who would I take more seriously, an employee who has been with the company for years or an employee that is newer? Yes if a chapter dislikes something they can speak and be heard, that's why we have conventions and national leadership conferences...but we vote on it all and we, the voting delegates have a lot of power within our organization, but the regualtions on hazing/drinking/open parties are not organization regualtions they are NPC or US Law, nothing we can do an indiviuals will change that, we elect representatives to vote in NPC and they do what is best...

Again, me and 33 agree to disagree...good times 33!

Here we go again....round and round :rolleyes:

I guess what cheeses me off about all these rules is that it is basically a mass punishment for the sins of the few and stupid. And it really doesn't have nearly as much to do with the welfare of our little college babies as the chapters would have you think. It comes down to one issue......MONEY. Insurance rates were soaring due to liability issues, and more and more in our suit-happy society sororities who never would have been named before are getting the finger pointed at them over something some guy did. Not to lay the blame on the guys, but that's the way it is.

In my entire time at school there were never any major problems or issues. Nobody got sued and nobody got killed. The greek system was much more bonded.....nowadays, since parties have to take place at the "annexes" (individual apartments and houses of members) there is a lot less room and therefore things have gotten much more exclusive. (Personally I believe this sets up even more potentially dangerous situations than the big, well-publicized house parties, but that's just me.) You don't see big group gatherings anymore where all of the sororities are represented....

Obviously stricter alcohol policies are not going to damage sisterhood and brotherhood within the chapter. But I think a lot of the things that used to encourage attendance and participation have been altered to the point where people just couldn't be bothered anymore (though a lot of this is due to the obnoxious overprogramming) and that does damage chapter morale. And I also think that the universal brother/sisterhood within the greek system as a whole has been chipped at by the new ways. It's funny......most of the responses I am seeing pretty much show a preference for whatever system you experienced.....old-schoolers prefer the old ways, newbies don't know any other way so they don't think they are missing anything and like their ways. It is kind of like the no-frills rush thread that we had.....those of us who saw the old ways know how cool (albeit expensive) it was, while the current actives couldn't imagine going through all the cost and hassle.

By the way, I do take exception to the subtle insinuation that I am somehow not doing my job as an advisor by disagreeing with some of the new ways. Plain and simple; I think that things were much better back when. This doesn't mean that I am not holding my girls to the rules that are in place, this doesn't mean that I sit around telling them about the old days and how much better it was......I take excellent care of my girls and their welfare is of the utmost importance to me. I am actually known as one of the more hardcore advisors in terms of taking issues seriously and making sure that the rules are followed.

Sometimes girls I am particularly close to in the chapter will ask me how things were done in my time, or how things were. I answer very honestly....I also don't always keep my opinion to myself about things.....but the girls know that I expect them to handle the policies they live under and follow them.

Me calling up nationals and telling them I disagree with the way things are isn't going to change anything. If the girls hear about how things used to be and decide among themselves to ask for reimplementation of old rules, that's their option and they probably would have more luck. A lot of these changes had to be voted on by chapters.....they are the ones who have to live with them.

I'm not trying to attack anyone here.....I just want it crystal clear that though I prefer the way things used to be doesn't mean that I'm not taking my responsibility seriously.