Would You Be Shocked or Not Shocked
 

Ok, so on New Years I was hanging out with a "friend" and her sorority sisters. Well one of them works at their nationals and was talking about how some of her co-workers said they wanted to come and visit her old chapter. She said that she told them..." You can come, but you might get offended at stuff you see, meaning drinking with letters and other stuff." Then she went on to say,"ya know there are chapters that are just as worst or bad as we are." They didnt even seem to care. What was more, was that they found out one of their advisors lived down the street from the party that we were at, and they went over to her house (this was New Years at about 12:30am). The advisor answered the door in shock and I knew she could tell theyd be drinking...alot. The tried to play it off as if they hadnt been though. She invited us in and was very nice, talked about XYZ with them and even asked me about joining the local Alum Panhellenic. However, I knew she thought it was kind of wierd and a little disappointed b/c when we left I could tell by the look on her face. They thought it was hilarious and would be a great story to tell their sisters. I thought the whole thing was weird, rude and embarassing. :rolleyes:
Would anyone else have been just as shocked as I was to see and hear all of this???

UMgirl, you're not the only one to be appalled by that type of behavior. I am definitely shocked by their conduct, especially the part about paying a visit to an advisor at 12:30 in the morning! New Year's or not, you don't just show up at someone's house after midnight unannounced! I hope these girls weren't members of my sorority. I would be very disappointed. :(

I hate to say this, but wearing letters and drinking isn't as out of the ordinary as you might think. It happens nearly everywhere unfortunately, and a lot of people claim not to know it's wrong. The best thing to do is try and educate those who are unaware.

As for the advisor thing, that's just nuts!! I'd be shocked by that!

Im not gonna lie, ive done the drinking with my lavalier on (sometimes that how you have to prove that you actually are in XYZ, but when I first joined I was told I shouldnt wear my shirst though). I dont think I was shocked by her saying that they had photos with them drinking with letters, it was more the advisor thing, and the fact that they know their chapter isnt that great of one that does bad things (ive heard about them doing really bad things) and they didnt care. Like it didnt phase them one bit. I think more that it was coming from someone who worked at Nationals.

I agree, UMgirl. In our times, we've all probably done a few things that National HQ would raise their eyebrows at and that we probably aren't very proud of to this day. However, sisters who work at National Headquarters are suppose to help set the standards followed by other sisters! If you see a National representative acting stupid while drunk and talking poorly about her chapter, then how does that reflect on the sorority as a whole? :eek:

To me, it was very poor judgement on her part to make the comments she did about her chapter, and I would bet that if other National reps learned about it then she would be reprimanded. At least, I hope she would be!

Totally in poor taste! While the young people today do not act as some of us did in the dark ages, there is still the idea of respect to look at! I do not care if they are out drinking with the "LETTERS" on, it is still advertising that we are a great group not totally stupid unless something like this happens! I know I have had some one come by and I put on my robe I was not very cordial!:(

Her big mistake was an after midnight visit to the advisor. I wonder if her days working at national are numbered. When I was pledging, I was told that I was a representative of my sorority and that people would judge my sorority based on what I did. This woman seems to have forgotten this.

I know I have posted on this before but the "drinking in letters = sin" thing has not always existed. While I was in school we had chapter consultants and province directors see us go to bars and fraternity parties in our letters, and they never said boo. I think what motivated this policy more than "respect" was schools cracking down on alcohol, especially its association w/ Greek life. IMO if it's a sin to do it in letters, you shouldn't do it at all, and at small schools, everyone knows you are an XYZ letters or not.

As far as the drunken advisor visit, that depends on the advisor's age and what kind of relationship they have with her. If she's fairly young, it might not faze her, and I know if I was that advisor I'd rather they came in to settle down a little rather than be out on the streets with all the New Year's Eve nuts. But if the advisor's a 70 year old grandma, that visit would definitely be over the top.

And there is a big difference between working at nationals and being a national officer. We have a guy, a couple independents and members of other sororities working at ASA's HQ - should I consider them a "representative" of us? Of course not. I would have liked to have heard this girl's actual conversation with her coworkers, since it sounds somewhat taken out of context - just to impress her sisters with how outrageous she was being.

Well said 33!

When I was in school there was no frowning upon drinking in your letters. We had entire bars at SC that were nothing BUT men and women in their letters drinking.

And if I was an advisor and some of my advisees knocked on my door at 1230 am on NY Eve, well, if I was even home, I'd probably be MORE trashed then they are! ha ha But seriously, I wouldn't mind, would be amused and it would give me the opportunity to get them in my house, feed them, get them sobered up a bit before sending them out again.

I have an off-the-top question for you all....

Does anyone think there is a difference in drinking in your actual GREEK letters and drinking in a shirt (for example) that just associates you with that Greek Organization.

In other words, is it the same disrespect (in your opinion) to drink in a shirt that says Alpha Beta* or one that reads AB?!?!?!

- just a thought provoking question!;)

my opinion
 

Ok, so this is how I see it, take it for what you will. I wear my lovelier all the time, so obviously I'm in my letters no matter the situation. If I go out and know I'm going to have more drinks than acceptable, then I choose another necklace so I won't be wearing my letters. I do not think it's acceptable to be drinking in a shirt, etc. because it's a large display of your organization, since the letters on a tshirt are generally much larger than on a small lovelier. Additionally I don't think it's acceptable to smoke in your letters, no matter if it's a lovelier or tshirt.

In all reality, my fraternity was founded as a social organization, so should I chose to be social and have a drink and also be wearing my lovelier, I don't find any harm in that. Should I become an embarassment, that's another story. And like a previous post said, even though my school is large, most of the people know if you're greek and what chapter you're in whether you're wearing your letters or not.

Ok, like I said, just my opinion and sort of what my chapter goes by.

Tara

Ok, I was there when she said all those things...it was only her, me, and my friend in the room so I didnt take anything out of context. Everything I wrote is what she actually said to the tea. And she didnt care. It was shrugged off.

The advisor had to be in her late 50's and I can tell you even though she dealt with it, she didnt too mcuh care for it. She was entertaining her New Years guest (about 8) at a quiet lil party.

Im not trying to bash XYZ, im just asking how would you feel if you saw this coming from fellow greeks. It shocked me but i know these things happen.

As far as the sisters position at nationals, i think its a normal entry level thing. something theyd hire a collegian for. I know she gets lots of projects and one deals with her working on a email magazine, and she sends out supplies.

Dropping in on anyone unannounced at 12:30 is rude.

In terms of drinking in letters, that really is something we never used to think about at all. In fact, the standing joke was that you weren't even allowed in this one bar on our campus unless you had a frataternity or sorority pin on that flashed the time and temperature.

Of course, in those days, we wore our badges all of the time unless we weren't appropriately dressed.

I didn't mean you took it out of context - I meant, that your friend might have been reporting the conversation differently from what actually occurred. Like she might have made it sound like they were all sitting around talking about what big bad girls they were when actually it was not like that at all. Sorry for the confusion :p

ohhh ok, oops my bad, sorry :D

but they really are bad, lol

First, its just poor taste to pop into someones place unless invited. unannounced visits are unacceptable especially to an elder's place or where decorum is expected (with an advisor, administrator, etc)

Secondly... I just dont get the whole drinking at bars in letters thing. As a group several years ago we decided as a chapter not to do it, but more importantly, why would you? I mean, its trashy. If I am going out for a few drinks, even casually, I will make every attempt to look nice (never know when you are gonna bump into someone ya wanna hook up with). Where I come from, a t-shirt or sweatshirt with fabric sewn on it (even if they are my letters) is kinda trashy. I dont care what kinda dive bar it is you aint gonna catch me in a shirt without buttons on it, a nice sweater or classy pullover. In my house, party shirts (what we call rush shirts, party shirts or event shirts) are acceptable to wear to a bar, but again, who goes to a bar in a t-shirt? thats not only something you should get bawled out by your exec for, but should get pulled over by the fashion police and given a citation. (Do you also go in the acid wash Guess jeans, White keapas and the really crunchy koosh-ball hair?) the only time I have had an opportunity to be drinking in a letter t-shirt was at Spring Break on South padre Island. I promptly took off my letter shirt proudly displaying my pasty white-ass needin a tan chest. :D (now THAT was deserving of a citation).

life, you are still one of My Mains on site!!!!! if I did what you did they would want to try and save me as a beached whale and take me back out in the middile of the damn OCEAN!!!! :D

Lifesaver, that is so funny! Then again it's 12:30 AM and I have insomnia so I'll have to reread it during the daytime. I used to go out wearing acid washed jeans with a matching acid washed jean jacket and big white socks and white Keds and BIG hair. At least I didn't have blue eyeshadow and pink lipstick! It was 1988 so it is not my fault. Actually, I looked good at the time. :cool:

Back to the topic: you are always representing your organization, and in fact all greeks, whether or not you are wearing letters so you need to act appropriately at all times, especially in public.

Cream,

That's really the point, isn't it. If you act like an idiot, it reflects badly not only yourself, but everyone you're associated with -- no matter what you're wearing.

DeltAlum, for the record, I dress A LOT better now. And my hair is a normal size! ;)

We dress for the times. Back in the mid to late 60's we had to dress in jacket and tie for dinner. Even in the dorms we had to dress for Sunday dinner.

And the Delts on our campus had a reputation for dressing well. I was looking back at a yearbook the other day and we wore jackets (or at least sweaters) and ties to football games, etc.

But, as I said earlier, we wore our badges everywhere! I'm a little saddened that's not true today. But I understand that the standard dress often doesn't meet the requirements for wearing badges.

Different time, different social climate. I really enjoyed looking good for classes and social events, though.

A Delt alum (not this DeltAlum) owned the best clothing store in the little town where I went to school. Wish I knew how much money I spent there.

I know what you mean. I went to a very preppy private school with a dress code similar to what you described for the boys and nice pants or skirts and blouses with collars for the girls. In the late 1980's I arrived at a big state school where everyone dressed in whatever they wanted including the professors. I experienced a sort of culture shock. Next thing I know out comes the acid wash. :p

Unfortunately some people didn't know how to dress when the occassion called for it. For example in 1989 or 1990 there was a regional NPC meeting at a college one hour away so all of the sororities from my school were going. My sisters and I decided to wear dresses or business suits and our sister pins. The embarrassing thing was one sorority from my school showed up wearing sweatshirts with letters and jeans and their pins. The reps from their sorority told them that they weren't dressed appropriately for their pins or the occassion and gave them a hard time. We knew a lot of them since we went to school together, and they didn't understand what they had done wrong. We didn't understand how they could be so clueless. It was pretty bad.

It was the same way with my chapter at GMU(our attitude about letters/drinking and hanging out with our advisor). We wore letters sometimes to bars or parties.(either sweatshirts or hats) We also drank with our advisor quite often.

Maybe Pi Phi is old fashioned..or maybe it is just my chapter. We were taught as pledges to never drink, cuss, or smoke in letters. We are only allowed to wear our fraternity crest or pin with formal attire. Chapters meetings are formal with dresses and skirts... "dress to the pin!"

When we wear letters is it like putting in a crown. You must accept that when you put on those letters, written or greek, you will be scrutinized 10 times more than any GDI.

Even if you have one Newcastle or Jack and coke the whole night, any one who sees you will assume that you are "another drunk frat boy" or "wasted sorority chick." Sadly enough, I have heard these terms. When you put on those letters, you are more than ever obligated to represent yourself and your chapter well.

Oddly these rules apparently don't apply to the guys:rolleyes: .

in my sorority we were taught right off the bat not to drink in letters. We also prefer people not to smoke in letters but that is hard since we live in the middle of the tobbaco business. I really believe that you show your true feeling about your org. by what your doing in your letters

lol, its not just Pi Phi or your chapter. I was taught the same exact things as a new member in Alpha Gam, and I'm sure many other sororities teach likewise.

Thank God. Once we start degrading our letters by drinking in them...what next? Let's preserve the wholesome quality of greek system, folks.

May I reiterate...when you are Greek, you are Greek 24/7/365, no matter what you are wearing or not wearing. If you think alcohol consumption and smoking are disrespectful, you shouldn't do them whether you are wearing letters or not. This is one of those debates that could go on forever but I think a lot is due to regional differences....as a rule, people do not dress as formally up here. The concept of wearing a dress to a chapter meeting...that's completely foreign to me...a lot of my sisters had a whopping total of one skirt or dress on campus, the one they wore for white ceremonies.

lifesaver, dude, you would have fits up here. 60% of the guys at bars in PA are like "Collar? What's a collar?" :D

In my sorority we are not allowed to drink with our letters on lavaliere shirts etc, but what I don't get is why we have a homecoming shirt from 2000 with a bottle of absolute on the back. Our letters are on the front of the shirt.
Also bottle openers are made with our sorority letters on them. What's the point of bottle openers if we cant' use them around alcohol.
I just don't get it!

well it could be said that you dont necessarily have to be drinking a beer or whatever to use a bottle opener ;)

I know that Pi Phi tshirts aren't supposed to be created around any alcohol logo, although I know that it happens. As for bottle openers and the like, they probably come from unofficial stores...not the one your National endorses, right? (I hope! ;))

As to pin attire, we're a little more casual, since we don't have a house and the opportunity to dress up as much. Pin attire is a nice pair of dress pants or skirt/dress. No jeans or sweats. And NEVER drink in your letters OR lavaliere/pin. If we find ourselves at the bar in pin, we've been known to attach our pin to the inside or our bra strap to a) keep from losing it and b) keep the integrity of the pin. I guess you could choose c) and not drink but if you must...