Question about UCLA Recruitment
 

This has been bugging me the last few weeks so I thought I would ask the experts.

I was at a bowl game and was talking to a darling young woman and her mother. The young woman is a freshman at UCLA and was talking about how big it was and fitting in. I asked if she had gone through sorority recruitment. She said that she had gone through recruitment and was asked back to preference by three houses but had dropped out.

At that point, mom stepped in and launched into a diatribe about sororities and how expensive they were. She said her daughter was crushed when mom and dad said they could not afford the cost. (I won't even go into the cost of the trip they were on.) I told her I thought they were very cost effective after the first year. Mom stated that ALL the sororities cost the same (cannot imagine that one) and that it was an extra $4,000 a year. I told her the cost probably included the meals as well and mom declared that meals were over and above the $4,000. At this point, I was not going to argue with someone that I would never see again, but something seems off.

The young woman said that several hundred women dropped out of recruitment when they found out the cost. Something seems REALLY off. Can someone clarify?

Mom is trying to save face because special snowflake didn't get invited back to the top chapters.

I think your instincts are probably good- the PNM and the parents probably weren't well informed about the actual costs and/or the number of women who drop out of recruitment solely because of the cost. The number of women who dropped out is probably closer to 110-120 than hundreds.

What always makes me a little crazy about that is Preference Round/Bid day is not the time to be removing yourself from the process if $$$ is an issue for you (or your parents.) Ask those questions BEFORE recruitment and at the ORIENTATION. The Greek Life Office, the Panhellenic Exec officers and the recruitment counselors should all be able to give a PNM a pretty accurate idea of what to expect- not details that are chapter specific, but a good ballpark figure. They want you to be informed, they are not trying to keep it a secret. It's not a case of "if you have to ask you can't afford it" - it's more of a matter of if you didn't get the facts it's because you weren't paying attention or you didn't bother to ask!

I would imagine that nearly every PNM at UCLA has participated in multiple HS extra and co curricular activities like cheer leading, sports, choir, drama, music etc. that involved travel expenses and uniforms etc, and went to social events such as prom and senior banquet, while maintaining a typical teenager social life i.e. going to movies, eating out etc. If you could handle that, you can probably afford to be in a sorority if you're willing to make it a priority and budget carefully.

Well, we know it's bull because HUNDREDS of girls didn't drop out of rush for all reasons combined.

My daughter graduated from UCLA last June 2012. I actually saved the New Member Financial Agreement from when she pledged in Fall 2008. So yes, this data is four years old. But back then,,,,

Live-In YEARLY payment (room, all meals) $9,726.00

Live-out YEARLY (yes, girls can come over for meals anytime!!) $3,408.00

The live in was about the same as the cost of living in the dorm with a full meal plan.

AND, if indeed that young lady preffed 3 houses, then that is something NEW. Rushees in the past preffed up to 2 houses at UCLA.

For what it might be worth, UCLA has posted aome "average" cost information:

http://www.greeklife.ucla.edu/housing.html

There's also a separate set of cost info for the NPHC groups, since housing isn't a consideration (as far as I know).

How frustrating.
Yes, the live out dues are expensive, but compare the sorority live-in dues to the average cost of a residence hall living at $13,000! Living in Westwood is expensive, and the live-out dues generally go to general house maintenance, some meals per week (it's usually stated something like 3-5 meals a week), an allowance for favors, and almost all costs associated with social events.

Correct... UCLA uses a two house pref system. They have recently used three time slots to allow chapters to pref smaller parties, but each PNM has two chapters she attends.

Now... one of the little secrets about UCLA's upperclassman quota is that it includes sophomores in with the sizable junior transfer population. Many women do actually have better luck rushing as a sophomore because of this. It could always change, of course, but it's good to know for women in this situation.


I have 2011 and 2010 figures for recruitment placement... ChiOLu would probably have the 2012 figures:

2011:
906 - Number of women registered
787 - Women attending Open House
750 - Women attending Round 2
703 - Women attending Round 3
671 - Women attending Preference
609 - Women participating in Bid Matching

2010:
715 - Number of women registered
636 - Women attending Open House
621 - Women attending Round 2
581 - Women attending Round 3
535 - Women attending Preference
499 - Women participating in Bid Matching

This past week I was doing a comparison of costs of attendance at California universities. The COA includes tuition, fees, room, board, health fee, miscellaneous. Transportation was also included, which would vary according to distance from UCLA.

COA for a freshmen student living in a dorm with the "average" meal plan:
This is not a student in a Greek chapter....

AT UCLA: $34,000 per year.

This could go a couple ways. Some examples:

The daughter got chapters that she didn't like and exaggerated to mom. Maybe she was cut before pref and didn't want to admit it. This explains why the number of pref parties was wrong and the young woman could have exaggerated the costs to where she knew her family wouldn't have wanted/could have paid.

Mom couldn't understand why her special snowflake didn't get chosen by her favorites and is vilifying sororities and the experience.

I can post the 2012 numbers later this week (long work day today, then leave for a conference). Total registered is just below 2011 #s; percentage receiving a bid is approximately the same.

UCLA is the best "bargain" as far as the costs of living in a sorority house vs. dorms or apartments. The cost of a dorm for a year (double occupancy, 19 meals/week) is in the $15,000 range.
http://map.ais.ucla.edu/go/1005183 (I picked De Neve Hall as a lot of freshmen live here.)
Living Off-Campus: An average 2BR/1BA apartment is in the $2800 range -- so $700/mo if you split with 3 other people = $7000 for 10 months, but most apartments have you sign a year lease. Add in your utilities (gas, electric, internet, cable) and groceries for the year, and you're getting into the $15K & over range. (I'm also a Property Manager & the company I work for has apartment buildings in Westwood Village, so I have actual rent costs. Incidentally, I rented out a 14-unit building last spring and asked all the women if they were interested in Recruitment. Three went thru this past fall -- 2 are Thetas, 1 is a DG!)
Cost of living in a sorority house is in the $8-12K range (depending on the house). THAT IS WITH DUES, INITIATION FEES AND YOUR PIN!

Please don't say that date parties and raids (mixers between fraternities & sororities) put you over the total of dorms or off-campus. EVERY student will have entertainment costs.

ggforever, the people you met do not have correct info, or manipulating the data for an excuse (sour grapes).

The good news is that many of the sororities will be going thru Spring Recruitment (April). UCLA has a lot of students who graduate a quarter early (quarter-system vs. semester-system), so there will be several that will have New Member classes of XX (I need to ask if I can same actual #s). Additionally, AGD will be colonizing in Fall 2013. There are so many opportunities!

Thanks so much for confirming my thoughts - especially Blue Owl and Chio Lu. I just knew she was working with bad info but mom was almost rabid. When I said that the cost would have included food she was almost down my throat. :( I feel for the daughter who will miss out on a great opportunity.

Total thread hijack but wanted to say that this thread is an example of GC at its best!

:)

UCLA 2012

851 enrolled in recruitment
123 withdrew
4 released
583 in bid matching
583 offered bids
no declined bids reported.
chapter total is 160

I do understand the sticker shock of housing, tuition and sorority costs at Calif public universities (I've got kids in high school and college) so I guess I can kind of understand where parents who don't know much about what sorority life has to offer could be coming from. In state tuition at the UC schools is up quite a bit from what it was 5-10 years ago. Most in state students are not going to get financial aid grants, they are going to be offered student and parent loans as financial aid. So the finances are something to consider carefully, especially when you factor in the borrowing cost on that grilled cheese sandwich you're eating on your meal plan.

I think UCLA is for a lot of amazing Calif students a "dream" school, and if you get in and you always thought joining a sorority would automatically be part of the dream, I can understand where lack of knowledge leads to unfortunate choices (dropping out or not pursuing informal recruitment) or sour grapes (just bailing on the process and then wondering how you fit in on a big campus where pretty much everyone is amazing.)

The good news is that if you are qualified to attend a UC school, and you want Greek life to be part of your experience, there are a lot of options and the costs are different at every UC school. Cal and UCLA have big, old, traditional Greek housing. UCSD, UC Riverside, Santa Cruz and Merced have no housing. Irvine has newer, university owned Greek housing. Santa Barbara and Davis have smaller, newer, less traditional housing that's very nice. It's worth checking out all the options before you choose which campus best fits your needs and wants list!

The admission process to any UC school has drastically changed from even 5 years ago. A student may be admitted to UCLA, rejected at UCSB, Cal, SLO or vice versa. Just because you're admitted to one UC school doesn't mean you'll be admitted to another. I've talked to some parents who feel the whole UC admission process is a crapshoot. Along with the State's budget issues and Sacramento's continued incompetence, the price to attend UC schools has steadily risen each and every year.

That said, UCLA is considered one of the jewels in the UC system. Being accepted into UCLA is huge. There are a lot of "cream of the crop" kids attending UCLA. Probably difficult for some of these cream of the crop kids to realize they aren't so unique and special anymore in a world of unique and special kids.

^^^ That is very true. There doesn't seem to be any apparent logical reason for why someone gets in at UCLA and not at another campus within the same system these days! Does seem like most students applying to the UC system will apply for at least 3-4 different campuses.

at least the CSU schools are pretty up front about the advantage in the admissions process they give to students within their "local" area. I don't think the UC schools offer that at all. Study hard, boys and girls! Good grades really do matter!

Good grades really do matter but it may not be enough either when talking about the UCs as they're currently set up. I've seen 4.0+ kids with leadership roles, volunteer work, varsity sports, etc. not accepted to UCLA but accepted to Merced. No offence to Merced but it's not UCLA or Cal or even UCSB.

Regarding applying to 3-4 different campuses, it's crazy. Kids/parents are playing the game and trying to figure out what the UC admission logic is and who knows what it is.

Here are some 2012 application/admission numbers:

http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/...ons_table2.pdf

Sorry about getting sidetracked about the UC admission process.

What might appear random in acceptances for UC schools has to do with that the application includes what other schools are you applying to and what specific programs are desired.

From this data, UCLA has the most total applications and would appear to be the most competitive school although Berkeley has the higher average test and GPA scores and most competitive of incoming students. Some of that has to do with the desirability of the location, some might also have to do with what programs the student states an interest in. I know that students that declare an interest early on in pre-med might be encouraged to go to Davis, for example. Likewise, the computer can take data about a student qualified for UCLA and accepted and can statisically determine the probability that if they were also accepted to UCSB and turn it down. It makes sense then not to offer acceptance to both - thus, leaving someone else well qualified for UCSB but not UCLA on the waiting list.

Sounds to me like it works about the same as RMF - you might get lots of acceptances but you can only take one?

Orignally when they went to this system, there was concern about student "fit." It happened that statistically more Asian students were ending up at Berkeley and more A-A students going to Riverside. At first this was thought a diversity problem or a location problem. It was later found to be a benefit because retention rates and 4-6year graduatation rates for minority students went up so they left it.

People just aren't applying to UC system schools from out of state because they are so expensive. It costs more to go to Cal than Stanford, for an out of stater it might make a lot more sense to go to Stanford.

Former UCLA advisor here. I can't tell you how many first generation American students who pledged who would drop immediately because their parents learned of pledging and didn't get it or didn't get the costs. It was a big issue about 10 years ago. I imagine it still exists. Los Angeles and California have a lot of wonderful hardworking immigrants. Greek Life is completely foreign to them. It's hard on their kids who want to pledge who have to drop (even if the kids are paying for it themselves) and hard on the chapters who have to find a way to fill their vacant spots.

Tell me that's out of state rates?

Or are they using inflated costs for some of the items?

Back in the dark ages, 98-00, I (my parents) paid less than $4K a year for my tuition and fees at UCSD. All the UCs at that time, not sure now, had relatively similar costs.

http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/prospect/budget.htm

Here's UCLA's fees per UCLA.

This is the figure equivalent to what I remember, $12,686. TRIPLE, yikes!

I generally ignore the books, etc cause they seemed to run the same ballpark from school to school.

I'd just like to point out that while I think your assessment of the Greek housing at Davis is pretty accurate (I grew up in the area and have spent a lot of time on/around the campus), I would not say the same thing about Santa Barbara. The fraternity houses at UCSB (with the exception of one) are definitely on the "newer, less traditional" (but not so nice) side--though several of them are quite large. The sorority houses are all pretty large, mostly built in the 60s or 70s, but still have the feel of a traditional/stereotypical sorority house to them, particularly the interiors. Some are better-decorated than others, but they all have a pretty standard layout with hallways full of bedrooms for 2-6 girls. Most of the houses have live-in capacity for around 40 (with chapters of about 100...I don't remember what total is right now) There are a couple of much newer houses (closer to campus), one of which is quite large, and then one sorority has a much smaller, less traditional house which actually shares a style and floorplan with 3 fraternities.

The way this is phrased is misleading, I think...this may just be me being defensive of my alma mater. UCSB is pretty consistently considered the #3 or #4 UC (depending who you talk to and what list you look at, but UCSB, Davis, and UCSD are on about equal playing fields in terms of competitiveness). So saying "or even UCSB" when talking about Merced, as if it's not such a jump from Merced to UCSB, isn't really accurate.

I definitely didn't mean it that way. UCLA and Cal are jewels in the system and hard as heck to get into. And the schools you mention are definitely very competitive and no walk in the park. You can probably consider adding SLO and UCI to the mix too.

UCSB Alumna chiming in here re: ages of sorority facilities on campus. Some were built in the 50s and have been modified, updated, or added onto over the years. Determining factor for me in choosing Santa Barbara was that it was the only campus offering Speech & Hearing Sciences as a major for undergraduate and graduate degrees (the UCSF campus added a PhD Program but that's another story).

minor swerve: There is no UC campus at San Luis Obispo (SLO); that is a California State University campus. The Cal campuses (in order of establishment) are Berkeley, San Francisco, Davis, Santa Barbara, Los Angeles, Riverside, San Diego, Irvine, Santa Cruz, and Merced (established in 2005, first new UC campus in >40 years). I know my Cal history and can explain those particular dates and the reasons for the selections of locations but it's not germane to the overall thread.

Research yields information on relative competitiveness of admission at each campus (e.g. #of applicants and #admitted, attending, etc.), as well as the overall admissions process for the UC system. It is difficult to quantify the caliber of education at each campus as all have different strengths and focuses. And yes it is that expensive which partially explains the influx of California students to Arizona schools. It's cheaper for them to attend here as out of state students than to stay in CA!!! And our Greek systems are growing and thriving.

As for the "even UCSB" comment, no harm no foul. We have our own beach, we don't care.

I actually know SLO is a CA State school. I had a brain lapse. :p

There is no formal Winter Recruitment at UCLA, but there will be formal Spring Recruitment with 75% of the chapters participating -- yes, 3/4 of the 12 groups! Only GLOs who will have a full Spring pledge class (whatever # they need to get to total) will be participating in the formal portion. There may be additional groups who only have a few spots and will COB. (I don't have actual #s on each group, nor would I have the authority to publish if I did know.)

With the quarter-system at UCLA, vs. semester-system at the majority of colleges/universities, there are always students who are able to complete their degree one quarter early and get a job before the larger amount of graduates in May/June.

While having Spring Rush due to early graduation is not the norm at most schools, it's a fantastic chance for women who may have gotten overlooked in Fall Rush, or who weren't familiar with Greek Life prior to college, to become part of a sorority. And, Spring Recruitment allows the chapters to find new, super-enthusiastic members for larger chapter #s going into Fall.

So, if anyone IS interested in going thru a more relaxed recruitment, this is a great opportunity. Schedule is planned parties, but (hopefully) less stress since there might be 100 PNMs participating in Spring, as opposed to nearly 10 times that in Fall!

Now would be a great time to see if you have classes with sorority members, express interest in going thru Spring Recruitment, get recommendations, and study hard to improve your GPA.

Contact UCLA Greek Life for more information: http://www.greeklife.ucla.edu/prospe..._moreinfo.aspx

AZTheta,assuming you got your dates for the establishment of UC campuses from Wikipedia ... but UCLA (1919) was established as a UC campus well before Santa Barbara (1944), Riverside (1954) and Davis (1959) Those other campuses later joined the UC system after being 'state normal schools"

UCLA originally was called the University of California-Southern Branch and then UC Southern Campus but because of the confusion with USC, it was changed to UCLA. Nearly was called UC Beverly because of its proximity to Beverly Hills and the thought to honor the bishops of Berkeley and Beverly. The yearbook is still called Southern Campus. Sorority houses were first establish in 1923 on Hilgard Ave. when the campus (also a state normal school) moved from Vermont Ave. to Westwood.
Technically, UC San Francisco (1873) was the second UC campus to open, but it was established as a graduate institution. UCLA is the second undergraduate campus.
the following campuses were later established. UC San Diego 1960, UC Irvine 1965, UC Santa Cruz 1965, UC Merced 2005

Actually, UCSB started out as a teaching college in 1891...so it is "older" than UCLA. The Riviera campus was gorgeous but not enough land to keep the campus there. Sigh...

Got my dates from my UCSB Alumni history source.

Our definitions of "established" don't match, is all. No big deal. Back to topic of recruitment!!!

Agree, most of the UC campuses started out as teacher colleges or 'state normal schools.' UCSD was a marine station to begin with. was just giving dates for when the campuses officially became part of the UC system.
and when sororities were established. UCLA 1923, UCSB 1950
back to recruitment.
Hundreds do drop out at UCLA (according to data provided 2011 906 signed up 609 received bids, but only 787 came to open house) , but not because of 'suddenly finding out how much it costs.' PNMs are given that information when they register.
NPC did discuss with UCLA some time ago about its system. It was more due to the way quota was established. Set based on open house numbers, never readjusted. So the larger houses tended to take quota, the smaller houses struggled. Example: in the late 70s, UCLA had 18 chapters, over 1,000 going through recruitment. By the early to mid 80s, 6 chapters had closed.

In UCLA's hey day for sororities, there were 23 NPC groups on campus (1950s, 1960s). All with houses. When chapters closed, most sold their houses so now there are apartment buildings, UCLA dorms & The W Hotel where sororities used to be. Sadly, Sorority Row will never get that land back, but there are still several that were sold & still being used a boarding houses, so potential for the future. (AXiD is securing 1 of the boarding houses when they colonize & turning it BACK into sorority housing!)

Since about 2006, New Member quota was readjusted from Open House day to the numbers going to Pref. Coincidentally, this is about when the gap in total #s began getting closer. Alpha Chi Omega recolonized in 2008.

This is also when Upperclass Quota was instituted as well as International/Study Abroad students not counting in quota (as they would only be there 1 year) and Panhellenic doing all they can to match single party pref invitees (women only invited to 1 Pref party -- NOT to be confused with single intentional preference -- granted, it may not work due to numbers, etc., but Panhell. tries) so it grows the Greek system.

In 2005, NM quota was 24-25. In 2012, 47 (33 fresh, 15 uc), with all but 1 group taking between 50 & 56. Total #s have gone from 120 in 2005 to 160 in 2012 (with 9 of the 11 groups at, above, or less than 6% from total -- & the remaining 2 groups closing in).

Fall 2013, there will be 12 NPC groups, with Alpha Gamma Delta coming on campus, followed by Alpha Xi Delta in 2015(ish).

As for the drop in #s from Registration to Open House, UCLA is not only a 1st generation for women to be involved in Greek Life, but many students are 1st generation to go to a university. As the last 3 days of Recruitment are after classes start, I think it may be a little overwhelming to some. BUT, I do see (familiar names of) women who go thru Fall Recruitment and not finish or not receive a bid, then go thru in Spring and find a home. (Would love to see the stats on that.)

So, in 7 years (when UCLA got a new Panhellenic Director & new IFC Director), growth of NM classes have doubled and 3 new NPC groups (as of 2015) added. Pretty good numbers in my book.

You're talking about establishment of NPC sororities. Alpha Theta Chi (which became Kappa Alpha Theta, the first local that became an NPC GLO at UCSB in 1950) was established as a local in 1924.

Again, defining terms. ;)

I remember when I was a new member, we had a sisterhood event where we went to go see the old SDT house at UCLA. It's now an apartment complex (and was inhabited by a bunch of guys who were very confused why a bunch of girls in the same shirt were taking a picture in front of where they lived), but there's still some stained glass stuff with our letters on it, so that was really cool to see! And then we got Diddy Riese after, which was awesome :)

How severe was the decline of sororities in the late sixties and seventies?

Did the fraternities and sororities decline pretty much evenly?

Did decline start early in the sixties (like at Berkeley)?

The alums of that era - are they getting active again, now that they are starting to retire?

The decline was more 70's & 80's -- both fraternities & sororities. Lower membership #s in the 90's, but started increasing in the late 1990's and more multicultural groups colonizing. Continued growth now with the groups coming back on campus are recolonizations (both sides).

AGD comes back this fall to UCLA AND USC (not sure when the UCLA chapter closed -- possibly 80's?), but lots of local alumnae are beyond excited to become involved! (AGC is also colonizing at UCSD too so they are crazy-busy in SoCal!)

Alpha Gamma Delta's chapter closed at UCLA in 1983.
And then the USC chapter. And then San Diego State.
UCLA, USC and San Diego State (not UCSD) will be re-colonized this coming fall of 2013.
The alumnae are very excited since the only active chapter in southern California for the past decade has been at Chapman.

Yes, AZTheta, again talking terms. But my point is about official UC status. UCLA was the second UC campus (1919)
Citing several sources, including Wikipedia, UCSB joined the University of California system in 1944, officially became UCSB in 1958 and is the third-oldest general-education campus in the system.

My momma would say you are being willfully obtuse. Why is it so important to you to feel you are right by splitting some silly hairs? This is Greek Chat not some argue about whether some change of terminology makes you feel better because you think it makes you feel right chat.