GreekChat.com Forums
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

GreekChat.com Forums (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/index.php)
-   Recruitment (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=27)
-   -   COBing fresh when upperclass quota isn't met (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=119359)

Anchored4Ever 04-15-2011 10:48 AM
COBing fresh when upperclass quota isn't met
 
=

AlphaFrog 04-15-2011 10:55 AM
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but since upperclassmen quota is a campus-specific policy, they probably wouldn't have national policy on it.

That said, my personal feelings are HELL NO, you can't slot freshmen in upperclass quota, because it totally defeats the purpose.

Cruise4fun 04-15-2011 11:00 AM
The chapter met quota. The "upperclassman" quota is like a bonus unless the local Panhellenic bylaws state otherwise. However, the chapter is still under total. They can bid up to total and can bid any elligible woman.

33girl 04-15-2011 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047019)
Question:
Sorority XX pledged quota+ of underclassmen during formal recruitment, but did not meet the upperclassman quota (chapter willingly released too many upperclassmen many before pref) and were 5 upperclassmen shy of quota on bid day.
Is that what you meant and missed a word? Not being a pickypants, just trying to clarify. :)

If they pledged quota plus of underclassmen - what was the plus? (It's easier to do this if you use actual numbers. )

AOII Angel 04-15-2011 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruise4fun (Post 2047025)
The chapter met quota. The "upperclassman" quota is like a bonus unless the local Panhellenic bylaws state otherwise. However, the chapter is still under total. They can bid up to total and can bid any elligible woman.
Cruise4fun is completely correct. Quota is no longer in effect. The issue is now total. They are COBing to fill their total and it does NOT matter who they fill those slots with. They do not have to take the upperclassmen during recruitment, and you do not know why they did not fill that upperclassman quota. They are under no obligation to take only upperclassmen to get to Total during COB because your campus has an upperclassman quota during recruitment. The same would apply for a chapter that missed quota by 5 but was 6 under Total. They could still take 6 members because they can bid to Total. It has NOTHING to do with Quota once recruitment is over.

DeltaBetaBaby 04-15-2011 11:12 AM
If they are under total, they can bid whomever they want to reach total. Period.

DeltaBetaBaby 04-15-2011 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 2047032)
It has NOTHING to do with Quota once recruitment is over.
True in this case, but not always, which brings up an interesting scenario.

If you are over total, but didn't reach quota, you can still COB to quota. If the chapter in her situation did not fill its upperclassman quota, but was over total, I would make the argument that they could only fill the upperclassman quota with upperclassmen. There is nothing in the MOI, but it seems to make sense, and if I were the OP, I would suggest the rule to my CPH.

FSUZeta 04-15-2011 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruise4fun (Post 2047025)
The chapter met quota. The "upperclassman" quota is like a bonus unless the local Panhellenic bylaws state otherwise. However, the chapter is still under total. They can bid up to total and can bid any elligible woman.
precisely.

Mevara 04-15-2011 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2047041)
True in this case, but not always, which brings up an interesting scenario.

If you are over total, but didn't reach quota, you can still COB to quota. If the chapter in her situation did not fill its upperclassman quota, but was over total, I would make the argument that they could only fill the upperclassman quota with upperclassmen. There is nothing in the MOI, but it seems to make sense, and if I were the OP, I would suggest the rule to my CPH.
A chapter can not COB to quota if they are over total. Per the MOI page 77
Quote:
Vacancies in the chapter membership roll can be filled only if the chapter is below total.

agzg 04-15-2011 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevara (Post 2047128)
A chapter can not COB to quota if they are over total. Per the MOI page 77
What? I think that passage refers to replacing members who have either disaffiliated, transferred, or graduated. But if a chapter misses quota in formal recruitment but are over total they can still COB to quota.

Upperclassman total is a bonus, though and completely dependent on campus PHC bylaws.

Mevara 04-15-2011 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by agzg (Post 2047129)
What? I think that passage refers to replacing members who have either disaffiliated, transferred, or graduated. But if a chapter misses quota in formal recruitment but are over total they can still COB to quota.
What may be confusing is this part of the MOI page 105
Quote:
Vacancies in Quota
When a woman negates her signed membership recruitment acceptance binding agreement, refuses to accept her matched bid at the conclusion of membership recruitment and does not participate in a ribbon or formal new member ceremony, this space in the chapter’s pledge quota was not filled. Therefore, the chapter may immediately bid and pledge another woman, even if the chapter is over total. However, if the chapter has received quota additions, the chapter may only pledge additional women to the established quota and not to the quota plus quota additions. Example: If quota is 25, and a chapter receives quota (25) plus two quota additions for a total of 27 new members, and three new members do not accept their bids, the chapter may pledge woman to fill to the quota of 25.
This is only if you received quota, not if you did not reach quota.
ETA: MOI page 115
Quote:
The purpose of COB is to enable those chapters that did not pledge quota, or pledged quota but did not reach total, to take additional new members immediately following the designated membership recruitment period.

agzg 04-15-2011 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevara (Post 2047130)
What may be confusing is this part of the MOI page 105

This is only if you received quota, not if you did not reach quota.
ETA: MOI page 115
You did not, and neither did DBB, say that the hypothetical chapter did not reach quota but had additions. (Unless you're confused and think DBB was referring to the chapter in the OP).

The rule is that if your chapter does not reach quota, they may bid to quota even if they are over total.

Quota additions are a bonus. You don't get to use them just whenever. Obviously.


In this case, since the OP said that the chapter is bidding to total and not upperclassmen quota, then they can bid whomever they like. Depending on campus rules, they may or may not be able to bid upperclassmen quota but my assumption would be from her first and second post in this thread that that's not really the situation.

33girl 04-15-2011 04:10 PM
We're talking about a separate upperclassman quota, not quota additions. Two completely different animals.

AOII Angel 04-15-2011 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2047041)
True in this case, but not always, which brings up an interesting scenario.

If you are over total, but didn't reach quota, you can still COB to quota. If the chapter in her situation did not fill its upperclassman quota, but was over total, I would make the argument that they could only fill the upperclassman quota with upperclassmen. There is nothing in the MOI, but it seems to make sense, and if I were the OP, I would suggest the rule to my CPH.
I agree, you can always fill your quota even if you are at total, but you don't have to. You also don't have to fill your upperclassman quota to reach total.

Mevara 04-15-2011 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by agzg (Post 2047134)
You did not, and neither did DBB, say that the hypothetical chapter did not reach quota but had additions. (Unless you're confused and think DBB was referring to the chapter in the OP).

The rule is that if your chapter does not reach quota, they may bid to quota even if they are over total.
I was not talking about quota additions, I only cut the whole section out of the MOI to be completely clear. I am sorry about the lane swerve as all my comments were only referring to DBB's comments of COBing to quota if the chapter is over total.

Where is the rule that says a chapter can COB to quota if they are over total?
Quote:
Originally Posted by agzg (Post 2047134)
In this case, since the OP said that the chapter is bidding to total and not upperclassmen quota, then they can bid whomever they like. Depending on campus rules, they may or may not be able to bid upperclassmen quota but my assumption would be from her first and second post in this thread that that's not really the situation.
Agree

33girl 04-15-2011 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevara (Post 2047175)
Where is the rule that says a chapter can COB to quota if they are over total?
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh....php?p=1968037

Mevara 04-15-2011 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2047180)
You referenced the exact same passage I had above. That refers to a chapter that reaches quota but then the member refuses to accept their bid. Maybe its just me but I read it as if you don't reach quota but are over total you can't COB to quota.

AZ-AlphaXi 04-15-2011 05:32 PM
Per the Unanimous Agreements

B. Each NPC fraternity chapter has the right to COB to reach Quota or its
total allowable chapter size during the regular school year as defined by
the school calendar. To accommodate the colonization of a chapter or to
allow a chapter to build its membership, the College Panhellenic Council
may vote to suspend COB for a period not to exceed three weeks.

Mevara 04-15-2011 05:44 PM
I read the MOI as a complete document and no one section can exist on its own. So if you put all the sections together you get the whole picture.
Quote:
Each NPC fraternity chapter has the right to COB to reach quota or its total allowable chapter size during the regular school year as defined by the school calendar.
Quote:
Vacancies in the chapter membership roll can be filled only if the chapter is below total.
Quote:
When a woman negates her signed membership recruitment acceptance binding agreement, refuses to accept her matched bid at the conclusion of membership recruitment and does not participate in a ribbon or formal new member ceremony, this space in the chapter’s pledge quota was not filled. Therefore, the chapter may immediately bid and pledge another woman, even if the chapter is over total.
Quote:
The purpose of COB is to enable those chapters that did not pledge quota, or pledged quota but did not reach total, to take additional new members immediately following the designated membership recruitment period.

agzg 04-15-2011 05:52 PM
Example:

Chapter has 198 members prior to formal recruitment. Total is 200.

Quota is 25. Chapter does not receive quota additions. Chapter extends bids to and pledges 20 women. Chapter now has 118 members.

The chapter may still bid 5 more women, to meet quota, via COB for the rest of the school year.

They may not bid to quota additions. Upperclassmen quota is a different animal and subject to campus PHC bylaws, I believe.

That is the whole picture. You may bid up to total, and you may bid up to quota, but it's not whichever one comes first.

To extend it, the chapter INITIATES 20 women, and never bid 25. They still have 5 bids they can give out. If an initiated member drops or transfers, they may not bid to fill her spot. They still only have 5. That's what the part you originally quoted means.

DeltaBetaBaby 04-15-2011 06:09 PM
Yes, so AFAIK (and I am a few years out-of-date, admittedly), if a chapter does not fill its upperclassman quota, there are no rules to handle that specific situation. I would think they could fill those spots, but only with upperclassman. Regardless, a local rule is probably a good idea.

Drolefille 04-15-2011 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevara (Post 2047187)
I read the MOI as a complete document and no one section can exist on its own. So if you put all the sections together you get the whole picture.
You quote page 77 but leave out the next line:
Quote:
Vacancies in the chapter membership roll can be filled only if the chapter is below total. A chapter may exceed total as a result of its participation in a Panhellenic recruitment when quota/total and a preferential bidding system are used.
If the campus uses quota/total and preferential bidding, they can exceed total. If they do NOT have the above system then total is the maximum limit.

Since we're talking about a campus that uses quota, Quota rules now apply. Those rules mean you can bid to quota or total, whichever is higher. That's what the "or" in each of those means. If the chapter is at total, but did not receive quota whether through rejected bids or lack of bids, they can bid to quota. If a chapter has met quota but is not at total, they can bid to total. A chapter that has met neither can bid to whichever is higher.

Upperclass quota isn't anywhere IN the MoI and thus is entirely local AFAIK. It's up to the campus panhellenic/advisors etc. to determine how they're treated.

DeltaBetaBaby 04-15-2011 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047224)
* Having an upperclassman quota increases chapter total...and there are not 2 pools for total (one freshman and one upperclassman). So, we either need to do 2 totals per chapter or just lump everyone into the same pile during formal recruitment. Because, what's happening now is really negating the stated purpose of using an upperclassman quota during formal recruitment. If they're counted in the chapter numbers which are used to decide total each year, then they're not "Freebies." The only way they'd be freebies is if they didn't count in the number which is referred to as "chapter total."
Why does upperclassman quota increase total? How are you setting your chapter total?

It sounds as though the issue may be that chapter total is too high. If formal recruitment is putting chapters exactly at total, you could drop it a bit, and it would resolve this issue.

Drolefille 04-15-2011 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047224)
Here's the thing...

* XX chaper does not meet upperclassman quota during formal recruitment, but probably would have if they had brought back the recommended amount of upperclassmen women to pref...instead of over-releasing.

* The number decided upon for total does not designate that a certain number must be upperclassmen or underclassmen...they're all considered the same in that pool. So, if XX chapter had pledged their max upperclassmen, they'd have been exactly at total and unable to COB. But, since they purposefully over-released, they're not at total.

* If this continues, then chapters will begin to 'opt out' of taking their quota of upperclassmen so that they can just go pick up more freshmen (who will be around for 4 yrs) immediately after fall recruitment is over. That's not fair or keeping with the stated intention of upperclassman quota in the first place.

* Having an upperclassman quota increases chapter total...and there are not 2 pools for total (one freshman and one upperclassman). So, we either need to do 2 totals per chapter or just lump everyone into the same pile during formal recruitment. Because, what's happening now is really negating the stated purpose of using an upperclassman quota during formal recruitment. If they're counted in the chapter numbers which are used to decide total each year, then they're not "Freebies." The only way they'd be freebies is if they didn't count in the number which is referred to as "chapter total."

Hope maybe I explained it better that time?
It sounds like total may be a little high for campus then, or that this chapter is a bit low over all. Are most chapters under total after reaching quota?

Drop total by Y and you negate this.


ETA: Dammit, just a bit slow. But that confirms what I was thinking.

DeltaBetaBaby 04-15-2011 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047245)
Seems to me that if the entire chapter is going to be used to determine chapter total, then the entire pool of PNMs should "compete" against one another during recruitment. Either that or there should be 2 chapter totals...one for underclassmen & 1 for upperclassmen. Because, the way it is now, those 2 groups are separated for the purposes of recruitment and then lumped back in together to determine chapter total.

That's just not right. Can't have it both ways.
You are over-thinking this. If taking underclassman quota puts a chapter over total, they can't bid more people. They either take upperclassmen during rush, or lose those spots. Total should be set so that the regular quota puts most chapters over total.

If there is only one chapter under total, and they chose not to take upperclassmen, and then COBed to total, that is perfectly allowed, and up to that chapter, not up to the rest of the CPH.

Drolefille 04-15-2011 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047245)
Seems to me that if the entire chapter is going to be used to determine chapter total, then the entire pool of PNMs should "compete" against one another during recruitment. Either that or there should be 2 chapter totals...one for underclassmen & 1 for upperclassmen. Because, the way it is now, those 2 groups are separated for the purposes of recruitment and then lumped back in together to determine chapter total.

That's just not right. Can't have it both ways.
Except that upperclassmen generally make up 35-50% of a chapter (assuming juniors and seniors) and something like 1-10% of quota. You're comparing two very different things. Either this one chapter is below total and trying to 'take advantage' of it (and really they're not helping themselves all that much in the long run) or total is too high for the campus.

AGDee 04-16-2011 12:58 AM
In my opinion (note *opinion*), If that many chapters are COBing to get to Total, then they increased Total by too much. Additionally, if upperclassman quota is that high compared to underclassman quota, then they shouldn't even bother with upperclassman Total.

I also firmly believe that it is up to a chapter whether they want to take advantage of the upperclassman quota or not. I reviewed a chapter's numbers just last night and they have 4 seniors, 18 juniors, 4 sophomores and 15 freshman. This chapter should absolutely NOT, under any circumstance, take more juniors. They are going to lose about half their chapter in one year and are going to be in big trouble. They DO need to take a lot of sophomores. Total is 35 on this campus so they are sitting pretty right now, but are looking at disaster in a year. Nobody has the right to tell them they have to take Juniors because of an upperclassman quota.

DeltaBetaBaby 04-16-2011 01:52 PM
I still don't see what the problem is with the system you have in place. Are a lot of upperclassmen going bidless? How many/what percentage?

AOII Angel 04-16-2011 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047417)
The problem is 2 fold:

1. Under the old system (before (U) quota was initiated 3 yrs ago, the vast majority of (U) women went to only 2 (out of 7 total) chapters. Those 2 chapters had trouble making quota yearly and were hardly ever at total. Their pledge classes were usually at least 1/2 juniors, and so every other year or so 1/2 of their chapter would graduate at the same time.

2. Under the old system, unless the (U) women going through were totally AMAZING, they didn't stand a shot at getting a good bid, and many wound up dropping out around day 2/3. Now, under the new system, many more (U) women stay in through the entire process and are more evently distributed throughout all chapters.

Because of the recently instituted (U) quota, chapters are getting larger, more women are 'going Greek,' and we're able to have more impact on our campus & community. But, there are just issues that come along with growing...growing pains, so to speak...and I'm just trying to figure out how best to handle them. I really don't think that eliminating (U) quota will help, because we'll just go back to the way things were before...fewer (U) women going through and an even smaller number getting bids to the better chapters. The institution of a (U) quota, gives (U) women an 'even playing field' but it affects total and COBing. So we just need to find a way to make things even and fair for everyone.
How is it unfair to you, the chapter that is popular with no problem getting all the girls you want under any system, that the chapter that has to COB to get to Total is able to take freshman or upperclassmen to get to total? Are you afraid that by taking upperclassmen you suddenly are going to become the undesirable chapter? Don't worry about it so much! They will take 5 more women to get to Total. It will not be the end of the world and will effect your chapter in no way at all.

DeltaBetaBaby 04-16-2011 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047417)
The problem is 2 fold:

1. Under the old system (before (U) quota was initiated 3 yrs ago, the vast majority of (U) women went to only 2 (out of 7 total) chapters. Those 2 chapters had trouble making quota yearly and were hardly ever at total. Their pledge classes were usually at least 1/2 juniors, and so every other year or so 1/2 of their chapter would graduate at the same time.

2. Under the old system, unless the (U) women going through were totally AMAZING, they didn't stand a shot at getting a good bid, and many wound up dropping out around day 2/3. Now, under the new system, many more (U) women stay in through the entire process and are more evently distributed throughout all chapters.

Because of the recently instituted (U) quota, chapters are getting larger, more women are 'going Greek,' and we're able to have more impact on our campus & community. But, there are just issues that come along with growing...growing pains, so to speak...and I'm just trying to figure out how best to handle them. I really don't think that eliminating (U) quota will help, because we'll just go back to the way things were before...fewer (U) women going through and an even smaller number getting bids to the better chapters. The institution of a (U) quota, gives (U) women an 'even playing field' but it affects total and COBing. So we just need to find a way to make things even and fair for everyone.
I asked what is wrong with the system you have in place now, not the old system. You have yet to explain what is uneven or unfair.

DeltaBetaBaby 04-16-2011 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047432)
Well, if you shouldn't be able to take underclassmen in place of upperclassmen for quota during formal recruitment, why should you be able to do so during COB?
Because they are under total.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047432)
Purposfully underinviting and then not making upperclassman quota is wrong. Why should a chapter who does this get to fill those spots with underclassmen once recruitment is over?
Because they are under total.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047432)
If we cannot pledge more underclassmen during formal recruitment, then why can they once it's over?
Because they are under total.

AGDee 04-16-2011 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047432)
What is unfair about then new system is that everyone is allowed only quota of underclassmen during formal recruitment and same goes for upperclassmen. Well, if you shouldn't be able to take underclassmen in place of upperclassmen for quota during formal recruitment, why should you be able to do so during COB?
Because to be eligible to COB, you are under Total so you can take whoever you want to try to catch up in numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047432)
Purposfully underinviting and then not making upperclassman quota is wrong. Why should a chapter who does this get to fill those spots with underclassmen once recruitment is over? THAT is what is not fair. If we cannot pledge more underclassmen during formal recruitment, then why can they once it's over?
What makes you think they are purposefully underinviting? Without sitting in their membership selection meetings or knowing their membership selection processes, you can't know why they aren't inviting as many upperclassman. Perhaps the upperclassmen don't meet their membership criteria. They aren't required to take just anybody simply because they are below Total. Are separate release figures calculated for upperclassmen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047432)
The chapter who did this got their quota of 29 underclassmen during formal recruitment last fall, then got 3 quota additions and just pledged 5 more freshmen during COB. So this chapter now has a freshman class of 37. That's wrong.
So it will be their problem when, in 3 years, 37 of their members graduate all at once. Is this affecting your chapter's numbers at all? No. Your chapter is not required to take the quota of upperclassmen either.

Drolefille 04-16-2011 04:37 PM
This is just coming off as "it's OUR job to have the big pledge class and be over total"
You don't know what happened in their MS, and you were obviously OVER TOTAL so it wasn't an issue.

If quota doesn't increase over the next year or two, or this becomes a trend, then lower total otherwise be happy with your new members and stop stomping your feet yelling "It's not FAIIIIIR."

33girl 04-16-2011 04:37 PM
Does 12 seem like a large upperclassman quota to everyone else? Especially if "regular" quota is 29? I was under the impression that upperclass quota was usually 5 or 6 when "regular" quota was 50+.

You had a significant bump in total. When did it get raised? What you should have done is: if formal rush is in fall, total should have been raised in say November. Then the chapters not at total would have had all of spring semester to bid up to total and have an additional pledge class - so all chapters could go into the next formal rush on the same footing.

I think I finally get what you're saying though.
  • Rush is in the fall. XYZ fills their freshman quota.
  • XYZ allegedly underinvites upperclassmen, or maybe they have reasons to cut them all, but who knows. All that's certain is that they don't fill the upperclassmen quota.
  • Now it's spring. XYZ is still 5 under total, so they start COBing. However all 5 girls that they COB are second semester freshmen.

I can understand where that would be irksome - it's a variant on the old "suicide and then we'll pick you up in COB" - but as several people said, there's really no way to prove that a chapter did this intentionally.

Also keep in mind that if there are still chapters out there under total - not because they "planned" it but because they are the 2 chapters that you mentioned who are always under total - they can decide to COB only freshmen too.

I'll say what I always say - there's no guarantee that those freshmen are going to participate longer than the junior you just gave a bid to. No I am not saying go out and take all juniors, but don't get hung up on class standing as a guarantee of a group coming back with everyone intact.

Drolefille 04-16-2011 04:41 PM
12 does seem high, but if they have a high number of juniors and seniors due to transfers - and without the upperclassmen quota you had seriously disproportionate pledge classes - it may be a good thing. Sounds like they need to adjust total if quota doesn't pick up next year.

AGDee 04-16-2011 05:33 PM
12 seems extremely high to be having a separate quota for. It also seems like she's including sophomores in the upperclassmen total because she refers to the "freshman class", which is unusual. Usually we hear "Junior quota".

Thinking about the numbers here.. if 3 or 4 of the 7 chapters had to COB to Total after formal recruitment, then they raised Total by too much. You had 203 freshmen women attending prefs and 84 upperclassman. If a chapter took quota for both F and U, then they have a new member class of 41. To be under Total after taking 41, that means they started with less than 66 members that term. Generally, on campuses where they have a separate upperclassmen quota, most chapters can reach Total with just the regular quota and the upperclassmen quota are a bonus.

I'm very curious how many of the 84 women attending as Upperclassmen were Sophs, Juniors and Seniors. It seems to me that Sophs should just be included in regular Total.

Is your campus getting assistance from NPC in setting release figures and quota/Total?

33girl 04-16-2011 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047462)
To answer some questions:

* XYZ's advisors openly stated in an advisor roundtable discussion that they underinvited upperclassmen. That's how I know what happened.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047462)
* Yeah, maybe I am a little ticked off at this point for certain reasons related to recruitment (dirty rushing, lying, etc.), but that still does not erase the fact that XYZ group is not following the stated intent of (U) quota. And, the fact that our Office of Greek Life is such a push-over doesn't help...they let this group get away with murder and yeah - I don't feel like it's fair. Because my group is a large group, we're made to follow every little detail and called out when we don't...fine. But, make it that way for everyone! This group can basically do whatever they dang well please all year long and then this happens and it just sends me over the edge.
I would definitely contact your regional Panhel rep. #1, they shouldn't be so boldly flouting the rules and #2, the advisors have gone WAY over the line of their own group as far as membership selection and keeping it secret. If my chapter advisor or ANY of my sorority's chapter's advisors were saying things like that in a roundtable, I, to not put too fine a point on it, would shit.

AOII Angel 04-16-2011 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047432)
Purposfully underinviting and then not making upperclassman quota is wrong. Why should a chapter who does this get to fill those spots with underclassmen once recruitment is over? THAT is what is not fair. If we cannot pledge more underclassmen during formal recruitment, then why can they once it's over?
You have no idea why they realeased any upperclassman during formal recruitment. Did they release ALL upperclassman? Apparently not since they are only 5 under and upperclassman quota was 12. No chapter can be forced to take women they don't want. Your obsession with this sounds very unpanhellenic and smacks of sour grapes. One would think you disliked you upperclassman new members.

The chapter who did this got their quota of 29 underclassmen during formal recruitment last fall, then got 3 quota additions and just pledged 5 more freshmen during COB. So this chapter now has a freshman class of 37. That's wrong.
It's not wrong. This is what the 26 NPC organizations have agreed on. If a chapter is not at total at the end of formal recruitment, they can continue to recruit until they reach total. You, as another chapter, have absolutely no say in that. If you would like to face the stigma of not making quota, your chapter can decide not to bid any upperclassman PNMs and COB freshmen to your heart's content.
You may not like the scrutiny.

Apparently you posted as I was writing this. You seem to be such a "rules" oriented person. I've gotta tell you that this "fairness" issue will get you nowhere. Fair is in the eye of the beholder. Fair is being able to recruit the same number of girls. If that means getting them all in formal recruitment... that's great, you don't have to waste your chapter's time and effort COBing. If you get your numbers through COB and formal recruitment, you have to work harder for the same numbers. It is the other chapter's business if they "underinvited." You still DO NOT KNOW why they did that. There are a plethora of reasons for them to legitimately do that. The release figures are a suggestion not a mandate. Just be happy that your chapter is at total with the minimal amount of effort applied. That's the ideal. Being mad at the other chapter for choosing to do it another way is silly.

AGDee 04-16-2011 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2047463)
AGDee -

Your math on the 203/84 numbers is not really accurate because quota is not established until after bid matching now, and we only get a 'quota range' when making our bid lists. So, if you consider that all groups made (F) quota, which was set afterwards at 29, and several groups got quota additions, then those #s are not 100% accurate. Plus, you're not considering those PNMs who intentional single pref (suicides) and do not match...which, unfortunately, does happen on our campus.
Yes, my numbers were minimums.

I'm not as "up in arms" about the advisors saying they underinvited, necessarily. I could see a conversation going like this...

Advisor of ABC: "I'm surprised your chapter didn't make quota"
Advisor of XYZ: "Yes, it turns out we underinvited"

Underinvited can mean that you should have invited 3X quota instead of 2X quota, in hindsight, because not as many women accepted invitations as they anticipated. That's different than intentionally underinviting in order to be able to take more Freshman in COB. After all, there are no guarantees that they'd be successful in COB. It's a risk to do that.

Drolefille 04-16-2011 07:09 PM
^^ What Dee said.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:49 AM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.