Quota Additions at Super Competitive Schools
 

I had this response all typed out on the previous thread and presto! It came back as locked when I went to post. I think it's important to help both PNMs at super competitive schools as well as GC members who don't have personal experience with those types of recruitments to see the flip side of RFM in those situations.

Overall, I think the system works or at least certainly works much better than it did in previous eras. I do think that one of the situations where it doesn't always work so well is on those old established campuses like mine where the pecking system has been in effect for generations. There's one chapter that has always struggled, and before RFM would hand out maybe a third of the bids the other chapters could. But at least most of those bids were accepted and were girls who were truly interested in Awkward Alpha. They COBed but remained a significantly smaller chapter.

Now with RFM, that same chapter will continue to appear on the invite lists of PNMs who would rather die a thousand deaths than pledge Awkward Alpha. It appears round after round and once pref comes around, the PNMs have invites to Popular Pi, Super Sigma and Awkward Alpha. They are told they have to attend the Awkward Alpha party but really don't believe they could ever get a bid from them because they have the two "good" options left. And when they go to rank, they are pressured to rank all three due to the dangling carrot of QAs and guaranteed placement. I think PNMs are generally led to assume that listing all chapters will increase their odds with the chapters they want but not the one they don't. (We have certainly seen many cases of this on GC too!)

So on bid day Awkward Alpha now makes quota plus with a bunch of new members who would rather not be Greek than commit social suicide by joining that chapter. Panhellenic and the NPC can pat themselves on the back for a job well done. EVERYONE MADE QUOTA! But what happens behind the scenes and is never mentioned is that only half of those new members show up to bid day, and after a few weeks of seeing what it really means to be an Awkward Alpha in the university caste system, only half of those who show up to bid day end up sticking it out until initiation. So Awkward Alpha ends up with the same (and sometimes even fewer) number of new members as they would have using the old system plus those new members get to deal with a bunch of unhappy pledge sisters with bad attitudes and the constant news of who has dropped this week. Awkward Alpha continues to COB now, and does better with that as they always did before RFM, but always remains well below total.

I know it's a difficult concept for those at schools that have more fluid "caste systems" where a few good or bad classes can make a huge difference in the hiearchy. Honestly, I wish it were a matter of Awkward Alpha getting a few classes full of Perfect Pollys who stuck it out so they could no longer be that house, but when you are dealing with big monolithic systems, it's naive to believe that we can manipulate social change with a process.

I do think RFM really does help the "mid" to "upper lower" tiered chapters attract and retain members. These chapters get a second chance to impress women who would have dropped them earlier in recruitment before RFM came to be. But every time recruitment results are posted here and I see "OMG YAY ICKY IOTA GOT ELEVENTY BAJILLION IN QUOTA ADDITIONS AT SEC SUPER SCHOOL! YAY RFM!" I sort of cringe because I know what is also going on behind those numbers.

I don't know if there is a solution. Even if you impress upon the PNMs that they really really really can get a bid from the chapter they don't want if they list them on their pref card, they're still only going to believe they will get those other chapters. Because they are certain that anyone can see they're Popular Pi and Super Sigma material and the fact that they had to attend that Awkward Alpha party was only a fluke. They only see and hear what they want to believe. It's the human condition.

At many schools lately, the difference between the number pledged and the number initiated in many chapters is significantly different due to the issues you discussed. Not only that but more 'crap out', as a colleague likes to say, by the end of the year.

We know so many girls who've gotten their third choices in rush...third choices that were a real stretch for them.

Isn't it arguable though that the less popular chapters would be doing just as poorly, if not worse without RFM since they never would have gotten the new members in the first place otherwise? Obviously it's not a perfect solution - and honestly, what will be if campus culture has solidified social tiers that just will not be moved no matter what. So overall we're still helping chapters with this method - and it gives the least popular chapters a chance to convince their new members that they have an awesome sisterhood too. Because they do, social stratifications or not.

Once upon a time when I went through rush (dating myself) We had pre-preference in which you went to 3 houses and then went down to only 2 for preference. Wonder if that would help to eliminate the problem of PNM's getting their 3rd choice and being told they MUST rank all three houses.

DaffyKD

I feel sorry for the chapters that have to do the convincing job, often dealing with a combination of happy girls, stunned girls, crying girls, and the realization that a large number of NMs never showed up for Bid Day. It's supposed to be such a happy time and I have no clue, even though I've observed it on several campuses, how they handle all this at once while trying to celebrate their new members.

How well this works at bigger schools I don't know, but rather than concentrating on QAs the day of bid day, such chapters might be better served to have parties and give out open bids a few days after when everyone's had the time to realize that life really doesn't go on when your favorite sorority doesn't bid you. And to realize that the girls they talked to at Icky Iota weren't as icky as they thought.

I've seen it, and it relies a lot on older members who don't get hung up on the ego who can split off and talk to the upset NMs. But it's that or not have any chance to convince at all.

I think this every time that someone mentions that EVERY CHAPTER MADE QUOTA at some school, because this exact scenario replays itself year after year at one particular chapter at my own school, which is only a mildly competitive northern school where recommendations are few and far between. I feel that in some ways, the RFM system where PNMs see the "Awkward Alpha" back on their schedule day after day when they've tried to cut them after each round garners actually makes the situation worse. The PNM feels increasing frustration towards the chapter for keeping them on; thus, the PNM is unlikely to warm up towards the chapter as recruitment wears on.

The above scenario may be the cause of PNMs being rude to one particular chapter. My own campus's Panhellenic instituted a rule where if you are very rude you can be kicked out of recruitment in entirety, but that still only does so much. Is there a solution? I'm honestly unsure. But I will say that it rankles me when I hear that because of RFM, ALL CHAPTERS MAKE QUOTA INCLUDING THE CONSTANTLY STRUGGLING ONE. While RFM did work for me, as I don't think I would have given my own "mid-tier" chapter (though I obviously don't look at my own chapter as mid-tier...I'm just illustrating campus sentiment) a shot without it. But my chapter is not the one struggling constantly. I am interested to see what others think about this.

I agree, I don't think most chapters complain about QAs.

It's hard to know where to draw the line between "giving a chapter a chance" and "pushing it down throats." So,so, so much depends on the individual.

As has been said on here before, if women don't keep truly open minds and look past things like size (chapter's and individual's), it's hard to feel too sorry for them. Some chapters can put it all out on the table, and say "yeah, we have 50 members and everyone else has 130. So effing what, we are awesome." But that's the exception rather than norm. If you've suffered through years of pressure from your HQ, your school, and sometimes your alumnae regarding numbers, it just gets to the point where you're beat down and rush is more holding your breath till it's over (and you fail again, whatever, at least it's over) than a happy time to welcome new sisters to be.

typically, quota additions go to chapters who do not need to cob, and the chapters who do cob do begin cob events as soon as they catch their breath and get organized.

Yep, and whether they do so exhausted and worn down by years of expectations from HQ or energized and feeling awesome depends on them.

We've talked on GC about forced prefs. These days, prefs are rarely forced but the PNMs have that carrot of QAs if they maximize their options. Still, I think that many, many girls are going to some pref parties unwillingly and that could account for the flood of 'rude PNM' stories that we've gotten on the Weird Rush Stories thread (maybe if I flip off the undesirable group, they'll cut me!")

yes, they do dangle the quota addition carrot and the sip kiss of death rumor, too.

let's face it, if someone's heart is set on a bmw, but they end up with a pacer, some will end up making the best of things and appreciating the fact that they have a car, while others would rather walk than be seen in a pacer.

^^ How many PNMs understand QAs vs. the overall "maximize your options" mantra? I'd guess very few actually "get" it.

probably not. i would wager that the majority of recruitment counselors don't understand it(or the sip situation) either.

I agree with you all and what Barbie originally posted.

Do you all think that those chapters who do struggle to "keep" their new members after Bid Day need to step up their NM Education programs? If you are "awkward alpha" shouldn’t you have the best NM Program on campus?

I have also witnessed firsthand where women who did not get a bid to their first choice end up very happy. Obviously every PNM is different. I do disagree with forcing a PNM to attend a pref party. However, I think most Panhellenic Councils really push the "maximize your options" advice.

Yeah we were using RFM throughout my time at school and we had the "OMG DO NOT SUICIDE" stuff and the general "maximize your options" stuff, but nothing more complex. Most actives didn't get it either.

I don't think the current structure of formal recruitment (short period of time to place as many women as possible) is set up to help a struggling chapter (one that is significantly smaller than others). It is set up to place as many women in chapters as possible in a short period of time.

RFM may give the struggling chapter a chance to win over PNMs on bid day, but I don't think the chapter can convince that many women to take the gamble who wouldn't have otherwise considered joining.

Is it really formal recruitment or the attitude of HQs though?

Oh, I certainly agree that the attitude of getting to quota and total at all costs is not necessarily the best path to success. I don't know why you can't build a strong sisterhood outside of formal recruitment, with women who actually want to be in the chapter. On the other hand, I feel like that requires acceptance that the chapter will likely be smaller indefinitely...

Has anyone ever seen a chapter that stopped participating in FR, but eventually built up the number of members and then started successfully participating in FR later? I'd be interested to hear how it worked.

i have not heard of any.

How do you show NMs this if the women are not proud to be ABCs and the campus/greek groups do not treat them with respect?

I once started a thread here when a member asked me how they could get new members to be happy with their bids bc they were always having to console new members on Bid Day. I have no clue what it was called but lots of GCers posted some good stuff about how their chapters dealt with it.

This one?
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=88328

There are certain websites that nowadays make it very difficult for a typical 18 year old PNM to be enthusiastic about the smaller/less popular sorority that she got the bid from-the whole world can see some really negative, soul crushing comments about the sorority and the members, even on a campus where there is some fluidity in popularity within greekdom. Unfortunate for everyone all around.

Oh I didn't mean to imply that PNMs were being told any details about QAs etc. Just anything from the implication that you wouldn't have a chance of getting any bid if you didn't put all three choices down or your chances at the chapters you wanted were somehow better if you put all three down to OMG THE COMPUTER WILL TOTALLY THROW YOUR NAME OUT IF IT SEES YOU DON'T LIST ALL THREE!!!!! I don't think very many people on either side understand it at all. I certainly didn't before I started reading GC.

i believe it is either "you stand a better chance of getting a bid if you list all three" or "the computer will kick out your card it you don't list all three", more often told than not.

i made sure that my daughter realized that while i did not encourage her to do so, if she only wanted to list one choice on her card, that the computer would not kick her card out. sure enough, her recruitment counselor told her group that if they didn't want the computer to kick out their cards, they had to list all groups where they had attended prefs.

Yes!!! Boy, you're good, I couldn't even think of key words in the title! Thanks!

How nice to know that you and your chapter have been in this situation and know exactly how to make everyone feel superrific 200% of the time. Please share how you accomplished this feat, because it's knowledge that a lot of people would like to have.

I think that can depend on how regimented your national NM program is and how it compares to other groups' NM programs on your campus. Obviously there are instances where two chapters can run the exact same program in the exact same way and one has been at total plus for forever and the other one can't ever make quota or has women dropping left and right. That's when you need to say to your advisors and national rush poobahs "so and so component isn't having the effect it's supposed to have to instill pride in our NMs. How can we change it up and stay within the guidelines?"

I agree. Back in the old (terminology) days, we had a catch phrase KROP.. Keep Rushing Our Pledges. I think a lot of chapters make PNMs feel very special during Recruitment and then, when they become new members, they focus on other aspects of running the chapter and forget to reach out to the new members to keep them engaged.

I think it's very useful to have an advisor meet with new members who choose to terminate to find out why they are leaving. I'm talking about a sisterly type of conversation rather than an interrogation. "We're sorry to see you go, is there anything that we can do to change your mind?" type of talk. Even if the talk doesn't lead to keeping that young woman, it may give some insight as to why the new member is leaving. You may find out that it is all about campus status, but you may also find out that the real reason has to do with sisterhood, poor decision making on the part of the members during member selection, inadequate information about finances from the start, etc. There can be a myriad of reasons. It's important to find out what these are. This goes for chapters who are losing initiated members as well. Is it finances? Would it make sense to have less expensive/ornate formals and mixers or get fewer t-shirts if a number of members are having difficulties with costs? You can really only know this information if someone talks to the women who are leaving.

*whoosh*

Not sure where you got that from what I said at all. The attitude of the chapter is, ultimately, up to them. I never claimed to have unlocked the secret, except perhaps with those pills that Jessie took on Saved by the Bell.

It's in the best interest if the chapter to try and have the upbeat attitude because worn down, worn out, tired of COB-ing chapters struggle to COB because they're - shocker - worn down, worn out and tired of it. Is it easy to shake off that feeling? No, I speak from experience there. Is it a good idea to try? Hell yes. Did I claim to have the magic spell to cause that? Not at all. It requires leadership from within the chapter and HQ support, not just pressure to meet numbers.

Blah blah blah, it's all nice to say here, but it has to be taken to heart and implemented at the chapter level. Only each chapter knows what it takes to get its members motivated - unless the officers are so lost or burnt out that HQ really does know better.

But not trying at all will lead to that downward spiral that we've seen happen to so many chapters.

You came across the complete opposite way - like a Teen magazine article that says all you have to do to get boys interested in you is be interested in them. Just saying.

But you are right in that people have to be inspired to rush for the right reason - because what they have is awesome and it's too awesome to keep all the awesomeness to themselves and they want to invite others to share it. Not for money, numbers or campus reputation.

ROTFL! And they said that in the sixties too.

Okay, back to the thread!

Yeah, I still don't know where you got that from what I said.