All of these are interesting points, and the following remain self-evident:

1) Like Doggy said, MIP isn't going anywhere. It's here to stay. So let's remember how it got to this point (lest we forget, and repeat the same mistakes) and let's look at where we go from here to make our organizations stronger.

2) When it comes to the topic of pledging/hazing: notice how the only folks who really bicker about how folks are made is the younger generation. My dad crossed Que in 1975. I crossed in 2000. And I have met dozens of bruhs with more than two decades of service. We both KNEW that I didn't go through what they went through for the exact same letters and membership. But there's no riff, there's no competition to see who is "more Que." But when I run up on someone made in the late nineties, they always ask about my process and whether I pledged grad or undergrad and assign immediate stereotypes. That, along with my record of service, activity, and lifestyle, will tell you whether I'm YOUR brother, regardless of whether my journey across the sands was harder, easier, or just different.

3) The very folks who were catching hell in the 60's, 70's, and 80's are the folks in office who made the decisison, no matter how unpopular it was, to implement MIP. We should respect the elders of the organization and their decision. Remember, it was us, those of you who are financial and actively participate in voting, etc, that put these folks into office in the first place. These folks went through REAL pledging and hazing, but they knew that for the organization's survival, they had to change. If our organizations aren't dynamic and adaptable, they will surely die. This isn't to say that our core principles and idelas should be compromised, because they shouldn't. The beliefs should live on regardless of the environment in which they are to be fostered.

4) Some of the people who were hazed or pledged the most are now inactive. Some of the people who skated in are inactive. And you have people from both categories who are active. So the process of coming into the frat/sorority isn't the determining factor of your service in the org. So why the bickering? There should be much more of a discussion between those active and those not active within the organization. Folks, we ALL took an oath on our journey across those sands. Are you living your creed? Probably.

In my opinion, this is what it boils down to: we, as members, need to be a better judge of the character of the people we let into our organizations. The problems we have don't necessarily stem from prospectives, but from members. So if we train our folks to look for the right qualities as evidenced by the ACTIVITIES and LIFESTYLE of the prospectives, we fix alot of problems that occur internally by letting the wrong element in our organizations. Everybody isn't cut out for Que, Delta, SGRho, etc. We should seek members with a discerning spirit. That's what gives each of us our uniqueness, though our ultimate goals are quite similar. We should be the Talented Tenth that the Alpha WEB DuBois spoke of. I believe that was our orginal commission. And we should seek others who want to be in that sort of company. Undoubtedly, a few bad seeds may slip through the crack, but they SHOULD quickly find that they are the exception, and their ambiguous attitude should quickly be changed by the fraternal company they keep.

If we elect the proper people to membership, then the process becomes less of a factor. And it's because we have shown the light to those who truly seek it and have a burning desire to live it, and not to those who want Que because the ladies love us, we hop the best, or have a tendency to show quite a bit of enthusiasm.

ROOOO

Very thoughtful dicussion
 

While I cannot speak for the other BGLOs I can say that DST is a 501 c(7), catagorized as a membership organization and not a 501 c(3) which is a charitable organization. Donations to c(7)s are not tax deductible for the donor. Therefore, donors give to our orgs for reasons other than our tax status.

The liabilities of hazing extend beyond our tax-exempt status (which simply means that we do not pay tax on any income we receive--unless it is non-business related.) It extends to the very existence of our organizations. Being hit with law suits to the tune of millions of dollars will bankrupt us. What we stand to lose is our insurance coverage thus wiping us out financially. We all have bills to pay--mortgages on headquarter buildings, staff salaries, operating expenses, etc. Without our infrastructures we will no longer exist. And yes we must maintain the very core of our orgs.--sisterhood and brotherhood--but these alone will not pay the bills. So if we are to maintain our core values as well as our infrastructures we must refrain from the very behavior that is threatening both--HAZING! JMHO

I pledged what is considered "old School" (Pre intake) and the Brothers that pledged me were extremely resposible bruhs. I had what I considered the perfect pledge program....Yes it was hot, but we did learn not only our own frat history but we even learned history of other Black Greek Organizations And Black History in general. We also learned True brotherhood (being your brothers keeper), something that I think is lacking with current intake programs. We knew (and still know) every aspect of our line brother. You see lines of 50 or more now and it's really sad that these men/women really don't know eachother. My older brother pledged Alpha in Fall of 72 and back then they wouldnt even take the line OVEr unless they were satisfied that they either knew eachother well or were ONE as a line. What can we do about this......Who knows? I think maybe we should institute a "bootcamp" like the military......maybe that would work....I don't know?

Speaking casually to an old-head Omega this week, I got an interesting perspective on this much-battered topic. He said, tongue-in-cheek, that the perception of pledging as either "real'' or "skating" was relative. What he meant was that he and his peers unconsciously assume that newer members have an easier process than his era. Funnily enough, he opined, Omegas that crossed long before him say the same about the process after their time. I thought it was interesting dichotomy. Is "pledging" in the eyes of the beholder(s)?

I guess you could say pledging is in the eye of the beholder. I pledged in spr 85. and I know bruhs from Spr 83 that thought i had it easy. And I remember when i was a young looking at Spr 86,87,88 ect. as "skaters". It'a all relative.

A GOOD TOPIC
 

Greetings Bruhs and Sorors! First let me say that this is a great topic to discuss because as you know, all Greeks do not agree on this issue. But as for me, let me say that although my journey into DST was a terrific one, I made it through nonetheless. I am thankful for what my pros taught me--because if it wasn't for that knowledge I would not know how to appreciate my wondereful sorority. My pros turned my "interest" in DST into my " love" for DST. However that was in the days of 1997-98, and I must say the process has changed. Pledging sessions have turned into haze sessions. The love was lost somewhere along the path b/c a pro wanted a neo to earn his s**t the way he/she did. And one thing leads to another and later it leads to violence. And that is not what Greek life exemplifies. But I must say that I appreciate my MIP, I learned to realize the importance of what my founders accomplished. Peace and Blessings

:D

I've seen it happen! ;)

Re: Old Skool Pledging
 

As a little girl, I longed to experience what my AUNT did with her duckteam--to be decked from head to toe in matching outfits (a different one each day, for whatever weather, and with appropriate accessories) designated by my Big Sisters; to immediately jump in line when I spotted my LSs across the yard after class; to delete the words "I" and "me" completely from my vocabulary; to eat in unison, and carry bricks and goody boxes, etc... All that protocol and pageantry would give me and my LSs a feeling of ONE-NESS that would endure until death.

I feel you soror...:)

Re: Grades...
 

This is a nice concept...

Why are you assuming that people who pledge will be t-shirt wearers?

Re: Just an observation
 

My question is, why do things like walk in a line without doing the other stuff that goes along with it? There are reasons why people remain in a line and it's not to look cute. I think ppl too often want the glory and attention of doing stuff like dressing alike, walking in lines, and greeting big sisters and big brothers without the hardhip that comes with it. But, what would I know about that? :D

2002
 

MsHanky
You do know this thread is 2 years old--right? I just said that to say the people your quoted maynot still be on the board to answer you.

Re: 2002
 

Yeah, I know. I was just bored and searching through old threads and thought maybe someone would respond. Thanks though.