FuzzieAlum,

Are we related? We appear to have the same last name.

OK, cheesy joke.

Nice bit of reality on the post above. I've been in the position of having to terminate a "good" employee for offensive comments.

UNF_Pike was WAY over the line.

In terms of the guys (UNFSigmaChi and TKEwhatever) on the Gay post, at least SigmaChi is taking a moral stand with respect for other posters. TKE is pushing the limits, but at least is debating something he obviously feels strongly about.

I think both are misguided, but they are entitled to their opinions.

UNF_Pike was just being offensive.

So UNFSigma Chi was entitled to disrespect the letters and motto of another Sorority in his zealousness to protect his right to discriminate? I don't think so!

That was what got me- the personal attacks on his and TKE's part. Absolutely inexcusable.

here i am again
 

I've been sitting back watching all this after I was one of the firsts to "defend" UF. I've noticed an amusing trend in that the mods. continue to get more and more defensive about their decision. Did ya'll think we were gonna thank you? Even if you didn't, which I'm sure you didn't, did you not stop to think that maybe people would have a problem with this since most of the vulgarity surrounding UF was related to other "more respected" members attacking him. I think one of the only people he attacked personally was one of my sisters, other than that it was all on ya'll giving it to him because you felt threatened by someone who actually possesses social skills. Now before you bend me over your knee, I completely agree the things he spoke were not social graces, however, to condemn his friends for "defending" something so biased happening to him is just as ridiculous. I found his posts about women mildly amusing, does that make me crazy in some of your eyes, yes, and that's ok. We all know men like him, in fact the majority of his chapter here was like him. That's what I appreciated the most, their ability to always turn a touchy situation into humor. Now if ya'll wanna get political and turn this into a feminism thing, then that's your deal, but that's really just one more way to detract the attention away from an already bad situation that you ended up in the middle of. But perhaps if the mods. stopped defending themselves, they wouldn't come off like they feel something is wrong with the banning, further encouraging the rest of us to go on about this issue.

At any rate, yes there is a "heirarchy" here on GC. Anyone who claims there isn't is just ass kissing so they can move on up into the "upper level". Personally, I don't buy into it. You are going to form an opinion about me, my fraternity, and my sisters based on what you perceive. If I give you nothing but the best to rate us on, you'll still find something wrong with us because that's how it goes. All you have to do is refer back to the "Stud" thread to see how people will come up with anything to beat down another person/chapter so they feel better about themselves.

Now, this probably doesn't make much sense because it is put together in a random way, but the bottom line is I REFUSE to kiss anyone's ass so that I'm "well liked on GC." We all have opinions on here that differ, for once everyone is voicing them, including me, simply because I think the way everyone agrees on here and tries to be so PC in reference to everyone else on here is straight BS! Get a backbone, and welcome to the real world...where everyone isn't friends all the time, and God forbid, doesn't always agree on an issue.

Not my point at all. The debate here (on this thread) is why UNF_Pike got banned (and, to some extent, why the other two didn't). Although the lines can blur, there are substantial differences between being disrespectful and being downright offensive.

Don't try to read something between my lines which isn't there. I'm not a proponent of either of the above, but my comment has nothing whatsoever to do with respect -- it has to do with a difference in intent. Two are making an argument (whether you agree or not), the other was simply trying to be offensive.

That, to me, is the reason he is gone and the others are still here.

I don't agree with UNFSX and TKE -- at all -- but I think there is a big gap between them (Well, at least UNFSX -- TKE pushes the line) and UNF_Pike.

I will agree that personal attacks and name calling have no place here. That's why I think TKE is pushing the outside of the envelope.

ha ha! I wish there were more Greeks in my family!

Re: here i am again
 

Now I too have been sitting back, keeping my personal opinion out of this whole banishment ordeal - only posting once to remind myself and everyone else what the rules are.

I completely agree with you PhiMuNursie, everyone isn't friends, and everyone doesn't always agree on an issue. John decided UF_Pike was was causing more trouble than good on GC, and based on that decided to ban him. Agree with him, disagree with him - but face it, its a fact of life becuase people don't always see things the same and life is not always good/bad or black/white. I found UF_Pike's post to be juvenile and annoying so I just stopped reading them - its that easy.

I have a laissez-faire approach to moderating - i do it from a hands off approach, and tend to only get involved when necessary. So I do take offense to your implications of ass-kissing by those of us who form this hierarchy of GC.

OH MY GODE I LOVE IT! I am in the Higher Archy!

Ha HA Ha, We are are all equal on this SITE Un LESS you become a total Crainial Rectosis! DA!?

Hell I probably Raise More Hell Than Most and I am In the Snob Booism! Wrongo wonder of wonders!:)

We are the elite who get on tnis thread as we are the ones WHO CARE! DA! DO YOU GET IT!

In every life shit runs down hill, but hopefully there will be a silver lining ont the out house wall!

Someone else said it better than I . . .
 

--------
My good sir, I may not agree with what you have to say - but I will defend until death your right to speak it.
-Voltaire
--------

... that's what this boils down to, as far as I'm concerned.

PS - I don't agree with your analogy, even when 'reduced' to the Marilyn Manson equivalent. But that's all good - that's the beauty of the thing, to my eyes.

Re: here i am again
 

I was offended by some of his more vulgar tirades, but I am the first to admit that I found him to be amusing a lot of the time. In fact, I e mailed his post about the freshman girls at his school to my husband because I thought it was a trip.

That said, what in the world do you mean by "one of the only people he attaked personally was one of my sisters?" You weren't offended by that?

Second, could you please explain what you meant by the mods feeling threatened by someone who actually possesses social skills? I wasn't aware that I was lacking, unless people are only nice to me because I'm cute?


On another note, this general animosity I'm noticing toward the Moderators is ridiculous! We have NO power to ban anyone. Some dorkette actually made up an entire Ritual for my sorority and posted it on here but I wasn't able to ban her and the dang thing stayed up for two days until John was able to delete it.

It reminds me of when I was on Exec Board in college. Some people just didn't like the idea that some sisters were "in charge" of them. Well, if there is a group of more than three or so people, someone has to keep an eye on things. Being a Moderator only means that we check posts to make sure they adhere to the conditions everyone agreed to when they registered on this site. That's it, it's no big deal. And if people don't like the idea of moderators, let them start their own unmoderated site and see how quickly the whole thing goes down the toilet.

DeltAlum...so you don't think tke-whatever whatever has reduced to personal vulgar attacks? I know you have read them because you have posted numerous times on that thread. I am not sure why you are coming over here denying the offensive nature of the posts in that thread, because if I read correctly, you have told a member in that forum that they are being "slanderous." Would you tell someone that if you didn't feel they were being offensive? Oh, I forget...if they have a CAUSE, then that gives them the right to be freely offensive...is that it? I think that in your efforts to defend the seasoned members of GC, you are losing sight of the point: to what degree must you be offensive in order to get banned? That is the only reason why members other than UF_Pike have been brought into the discussion, to illustrate the disparity in the moderator's discretion.

The moderators are so quick to come over here now and deny all responsibility. On the first page of this thread, you all were saying that a member can ONLY get banned IF the moderators recommend it! Did I miss something?

Re: here i am again
 

No, I don't think the moderators expect people to come bowing at our feet, thanking us profusely for banning someone. :) HOWEVER, I also don't think that we ought to be constantly berated when someone doesn't like a ban when it occurs, either. It is extremely rare for someone to be banned on GC. People who have been around awhile know this to be true. So I think it's pretty safe to say that when someone gets banned that it's for a very good reason.

The thing is, mods know that if we DON'T do something about a problem GCer then we're going to hear about it... and also know full well that if we DO do something about the person then we're STILL going to hear about it. It's a no win situation, and I personally have a great deal of admiration for all of the mods who put up with it, even the ones that I don't agree with on a daily basis. I think alot of us take more abuse from people here than we do at our "real life" jobs -- and being a mod doesn't even come with a paycheck! ;) It's not a fun-filled role. In fact, it's a lot like being a member of the executive board in your chapter -- dealing with problems and gripes is a big part of the job -- and I just think it would be nice if people would take that into consideration from time to time.

I think we all realize that not everyone is going to like us 100% of the time. But the implication that we're all "ass-kissing" just so that we'll be "well-liked on GC" is a crock, and most people who are familiar with the mods know it. I personally will give you my opinion, straight up, on nearly any issue you want to debate. However, the fact that I know how to express myself in a polite but firm manner concerning those issues does not equate to ass-kissing. It's called having an adult conversation, and there's a huge difference.

As far as being defensive goes, yes, you can definitely say that I'm being defensive! I and other mods are sitting here getting slammed for trying to get rid of someone who did nothing -- NOTHING -- but post nasty comments day in and day out on this board. Sorry, but that just makes NO sense whatsoever. He digs his own grave, and then people try to blame other GCers for it??? That argument just doesn't hold water, and I firmly believe that others would be getting defensive too if they were mods.

But, even though I'm being "defensive," let me make something very, very clear -- just so no one will get the mistaken impression that I feel something is "wrong with the banning." I don't feel that there is ANYTHING wrong with the banning of UF_Pike - or anyone else who joins GC for the sole purpose of stirring up trouble.

As for the comment about "did you not stop to think that maybe people would have a problem with this since most of the vulgarity surrounding UF was related to other "more respected" members attacking him"...

The "more respected members" who you say were "attacking" UF_Pike would never have said a single word to the guy if he hadn't made a dozen obscene posts previously. Some people act almost as if they think other GCers were scanning the boards, just waiting for the opportunity to pick a fight with UF_Pike. It's like they have completely forgotten that UF_Pike himself started nearly every controversy.

About the comment that some GCers "felt threatened by someone who actually possesses social skills." To me, that is truly laughable because people who possess social skills don't get booted from the board. Why? Because they know how to carry on an adult conversation.

At any rate, like it or not, UF_Pike has been banned. If he decides to start his antics again under his new user name, then so be it. He'll most likely be banned again. That's how it goes. Some GCers won't like it, some will. That's life in the real world.

To put it another (more blunt) way:

Why was UF_Pike banned for being "offensive to women on the board", but TKEmz894 wasn't banned for being EVEN MORE offensive toward homosexuals (as well as a few) women?

This is illustrative of the disparity in moderators' discretion, as librasoul22 put it . . . why this disparity? I'll go so far as to openly boo this disparity, and state my opinion that neither should be banned at all (and I have a lot of posts, so my opinion counts extra, right?).

If this guy was banned just for having a very limited weltanshauung, especially with regard to women, then I think that sucks.

Yeah - this is what I was thinking too . . . look, the moderators don't push the button, but somebody had to 'take up the cause' here, right?

I'm not going to rail against the moderators here - the vast majority (if not all) were selected to moderate based on significant contribution to the board. BUT - recognize that you are all in a unique position of authority over other people and their free speech on a semi-public forum. KillarneyRose - you don't have the explicit power to ban someone, but you have more influence than the normal member when it comes to the ultimate decisions. How moderators use this influence is certainly up for discussion. Bottom line - w/out intervention by someone (and it was inferred that moderator intervention was required), no one gets banned. I disagree with the banning - In this way, I disagree with the intervention of the moderators.

Make sense?

OK, guess I'm going to have to quote myself here:

Somehow, I don't feel like that's defending TKE.

One final time -- UNF_Pike wasn't trying to make a point. He was just running off at the mouth. The other guys at least are making an argument. No matter how flawed.

Sorry if you don't understand what I'm trying to point out -- that may be my fault, or you may be reading more into a post than I mean.

In any event, please read this carefully:

I believe that UNF_Pike deserved to be banned. I would have no problem if TKEwhomever is banned as well -- but the intent will still be different. I've warned TKE of possible slander and I've advised him to dial back the rhetoric. (I've also subtley suggested Jono back away from their exchange) The difference still is that TKE, at least, is attempting to make a point -- no matter how wrong and how badly. UNF_Pike was just acting like a jerk. If TKE isn't banned, I believe it will be for that reason alone.

One more point. I said very early on that I have never asked for anyone to be banned. I still haven't. If you want to ask me if I think TKE should be banned, PM me or something. Or, if it happens, ask my opinion afterwards. I'm not interested in trying to affect that kind of decision.

As for the moderators, this is a lose/lose situation for them -- damned if they do, damned if they don't.

By and large I think they do a good job for a group of unpaid volunteers with fairly minimal guidelines (I suspect) and only good intentions to fall back on.

Perhaps it's time to agree to disagree and go on our way.

last post
 

Ok, so this is the last post I will put on this subject because it's obviously something everyone has differing opinions on and we will never come to a decent agreement, so why bother continuing the arguing. There's not need to make enemies over such a ridiculous argument.

I can accept that I offended many of you with the last post of mine. But it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it and I don't feel compelled to pick parts of responses and respond to them because taking parts of a post without including it in it's entirety is like taking a sentence out of a book and not regarding the surrounding sentences for context.

dzrose, personally I don't feel like you're capable of carrying on an adult conversation RELATED TO THIS TOPIC, simply because I don't know of many adults that will take something to heart and defend and defend and defend it. Adults know when to let something go, in the manner I am doing.

KillarneyRose, do not EVER question whether it bothered me that someone offended one of my sisters. The entire reason I started talking to UF in the first place was to give him some FACTS about my chapter and most importantly get an apology for my sister. Which he did, by the way. I will NEVER EVER explain my actions toward my sisters again, to you or anyone else who doesn't know the entire story and decides to incinuate I was acting in anything other than a supportive and loving manner to my other Phi Mus. I would think we all understand the bonds we have with our sisters and I would never THINK to question you about your actions toward one of your sisters. I do not appreciate that you chose to question me on that. Above all else here, we are greek together and if no one else does, we understand what our sisters and brothers mean to us.

If anyone has a response to this, please feel free to PM me, I will not be visiting this thread any more.

PS. don't throw around that ya'll were on the exec board in college and wish people would take that into account, etc. I was on Rush Exec. and I dont think anyone in my chapter would argue that there was more of a thankless job. I know full well how it goes, but remember, we're not in college anymore and it's really not the same as being a big shot on the internet.

Tara

i was embarassed
 

Everytime I saw UF_Pike, I cringed:

1) as an alumna of UF, I was ashamed to see my university's reputation (and please note - he will not graduate from UF) lowered by his inane postings.

2) as an alumna of Kappa Delta, I was embarassed by his reference to my chapter at UF.

3) as the sister of a Pi Kappa Alpha member, I shuddered to think of the destruction of the fraternity's good name, esp. when other Pikes asked him to refrain.

4) as a woman, I thought his msgs were in poor taste..period.


Whoever owns the website makes the rules. Free speech doesn't reign on here, as it does NOT in the U.S. - there are boundaries. However, if you want TRUE free speech, do it on your own turf, where you can make your own rules.

I don't see this banning as censorship at all. GC will continue on, a bit more harmoniously. Sure, there will always be the next guy/girl - but the moderators are here for a reason.

Thanks.