Then why couldn't they just be a local Wake Forest Greek? Are these parents that are hung up on their daughters being affiliated with a certain group, or are they just parents who don't want their daughters to go the rest of the way through school without a sorority? I mean, if I would have been one of these girls, my parents wouldn't have given a shit what any new group I was part of was called, just so I could participate in the campus Greek life.

Maybe Wake Forest wouldn't allow locals if they had a bad history in the past.

Check the Mods' Forum, 33, but yes--the locals had such a bad rep at Wake that they were all forced to go national a few years back.

If the locals had that bad a rep, why did national sororities admit such women into their bonds to begin with?

The concept of a national organization = magic fairy pixie dust never ceases to amaze me. If people haze when they are locally affiliated, they'll haze when they're nationally, regionally or universally affilated, unless the national group majorly cleans house and keeps an eye on them (as in, a live-in eye) for the first several years. Organizations are made up of humans. Humans are what haze, not organizations.

These words should be bronzed.

The University of Kentucky (UK) only allows GLOs that have an (inter)national HQ, staff, “national” by-laws etc. The reason, and I'm not completely sure of the official wording, is for legal and risk management purposes – i.e. protect the University as much as possible if hazing (and other risk management issues) occur. Many other colleges have similar “national only” policies and I suspect Wake may be one of them.

Sure, but the question raised by 33girl is why the NPC groups would want to be at Wake, not the other way around.

33 and DBB, I think that the nationals didn't realize that the locals would go on hazing like they did. There are now several national NPCs that won't take on an already formed local for that reason; they told us that emphatically when Shorter's locals approached the nationals.

I've done expansion research for my sorority previously, and I looked at certain things like what organizations are already on campus, how many of our alumnae were in the area, if we had alumnae associations and chapters close by, etc. I never would have stopped to consider the hazing culture, if any, at those schools, or how I would come by such information.

What I'm getting to is that the NPCs seeking to expand obviously considered a broad range of factors before making expansion presentations. I'm satisfied these organizations know how to recruit and vet prospective members, and clean house when they deem it absolutely necessary. Not all members of an interest group will go on to become sisters.

Additionally, you can only go by the actual evidence you have in front of you. I know from experience as a former adviser (and I am sure all of you can identify with this) how easy it is for members to lie to your face and give the appearance of following all the rules... when in fact they are not, they've actually taken a page straight out of Lord of the Flies and nothing is going to stop them. Until they get caught.

Clearly replacing a sorority's name from a local to an NPC isn't going to make them stop hazing. But with the education measures and sanctions in place, it has a better chance of dying off. This of course supposes that there is adequate supervision and members who actually follow the rules.

^^This particular instance/school seems to me to be above and beyond the regular due diligence that gets done. As I mentioned in MC, it seems like WFU likes the idea of cultivating a strong school culture - which would include things like longstanding local GLOs/societies - but doesn't want to suck it up and take responsibility for the "unique" social life. Can't have it both ways.

Wake is a desirable campus and I suspect the NPCs felt the “new” chapters would no longer haze. At the same time, I suspect that the Wake administration may have felt (hoped) that now having national (NPC) oversight, hazing would end.

Yeah, it just seems a bit naive, that's all.

33 girl- Though KBG does not have a voice in panhel, they still participate in formal recruitment.

I agree with you. And in hindsight, I am sure some of the NPCs do too.

Interesting. While it is not unusual that some colleges require non-affiliated (as in with a national council) sororities to belong to the campus panhellenic council – often as an associate member - they normally do not participate in formal NPC recruitment. They may have a limited “voice”, but mainly with regards to general GLO business.

I find it odd that a non NPC chapter - that has "no voice in the panhellenic council" - would participate in formal NPC recruitment. Why do they do so? Are they a member (associate member perhaps) of the Wake College Panhellenic Council and are required to participate? And are they included in things like quota and chapter total?

I think they probably participate despite having no voice because they continue to recruit strongly. If that changed, they would likely stop participating in formal recruitment.