Hardly. That's not what hypocrisy means. It's not hypocritical to hold others and (one's self) to high standards even though we know we will all from time to time fail to meet them.

Hypocrisy, by definition, is pretending to have values or moral standards that you do not actually have. It is holding others to a standard, and giving the appearances of holding yourself to that same standard, when in fact you do not hold yourself to that standard.

As long as you are acknowledging your faults and trying to do better, than it's not hypocrisy.

Eh...all HUMANS can be hypocritical.

But merely acknowledging that in this type of a discussion is a cop-out.

After reading the thread, I'd have to agree...hypocrisy is not the correct term. Hubris is more apt (one of the seven deadly sins, I might add!) If straight guys don't want to be friends with gay guys, I'm sure the gay guys aren't missing out on anything with that group other than condemnation and contempt. To the frat guys who go on and on about the "disgusting" behavior of gay men, don't think that God sees your sins in any better light. Drinking to excess, fornicating with women (some of whom did not agree to said activity), etc are all disgusting in his eyes. Don't fool yourself that you are any better than any gay man walking the earth.

Everybody that answered the guy gave honest and mature responses. Has anyone been cocky or arrogant about it either?, that's ridiculous. I've read this entire thread for the most part and haven't really seen that at all.

What "frat guys" on here have said anything about the "disgusting behavior of gay men"? Perhaps I missed that part too. Furthermore, trying to use the whole "you drink and have sex so you aren't any better" b.s. cop-out has already been run into the ground.

Also, has anybody said anything about being "better" than anyone either? I don't think so, maybe someone has.

macallan25, this has to be one of the greatest posts I have seen on this thread!

You prove yourself very well!:cool:

Thank You!

That's the reason I label it as hypocrisy. Most of the same fraternity guys who will use "morality" as a reason to exclude gays are not acknowledging their faults and trying to do better. Instead they've labeled their faults as manly or cool and homosexuality as disgusting and immoral. JMO.

I see your point. I was really responding to DSTRen13:

Yep :)

I would agree; however, SB hasn't indicated anywhere in this thread that he is "pretending to have values or moral standards that [he] does not actually have", and yet he is accused of hypocrisy. I don't think it's a fair charge. I don't agree with his values/moral standards about 90% or more of the time, but he does seem pretty consistent on them and I see no reason to believe that he doesn't truly hold those values.

Sounds a lot like he finds gays to be inferior than him.

This very much sounded like you are denigrating him as a homosexual.



I think that you may be reading these threads with rose colored glasses, Macallan. Here is a definition of Hubris from Wikipedia "In Ancient Greece, "hubris" referred to actions taken in order to shame and humiliate the victim, thereby making one-self seem superior." Many of the posts here fit this description to a T! I think the Bible saying that homosexuality is wrong has nothing to do with your real reasons for not wanting a homosexual man in your fraternity, but you use it because you feel like it's a good argument. If you look through these posts, the majority really don't want any homosexuals in their fraternities because homosexuality is "gross", "disgusting", "uncomfortable" etc. Own how you really feel and don't hide behind the Bible (especially when you [in the general, all mankind, sense] break many of the commandments and dictates daily!)

I know what hubris means. I haven't read any posts in this thread that are meant to shame and humiliate the OP.

I didn't use the Bible for my reasonings at all. If you'll go back and read the post where I referenced it, you'll see the context in which it was used. The OP made a statement basically saying that if guys are truly Christians, then it shouldn't matter what sexuality someone is because Jesus taught us to be accepting of everybody. I simply stated that the Bible considers homosexual behavior a sin. I never once said that I wouldn't want a homosexual in my fraternity because it's a sin according to the Bible.

I don't believe he said anything expressing that he is superior to homosexuals. I believe he said that he finds homosexuality grossly immoral.

As for what I said........again, if you would have actually read the thread you would have seen that I was sarcastically responding to this statement:

But hey, I guess it's ok for him to call people names and say filthy things about their mothers and pets.........he's a homosexual and we should be compassionate. Isn't that right??????

My views about gays in fraternities are nothing. I think you should judge a person by their character and not their sexual preference. Same as I would view lesbians who were in my auxiliary. I judge them by their heart and service to the organization. HOWEVER the representation of the organization is at stake. If someones personal relationships are going to affect the organization in a NEGATIVE way than something should be done to prevent it or that individual should keep personal issues and their service to their organization separate.

You're right. I can't stand the gay community in general, so by default, I don't give any individual gay person I meet a chance. I know that a sin is a sin, and there is no difference in God's eyes, but there sure as hell are differences in my own.

I thought it would be kinder if I was more tactful, but at least now you feel vindicated.

Interesting point about Alumni in KA!

I will and I am sure along with many others will tell you that those Alums you wish to ignore are many times the back bone of not only your chapter, but your Fraternity!:rolleyes:

You may not know whom they are, but maybe it is time to learn! Ignorance is in the eye only.

Oh, are there no gays in the NFL or NBA or MLBB?:rolleyes:

Thanks for your honesty.

I do what I can.

Been studying your Nazi eugenics propaganda?

Awesome.

Thanks, nittanyalum and quoting in its entirety for posterity. You are that which you despise?

^^^Exactly what I was thinking. :D

Why are people on this board so against tradition, if something isn't broken don't fix it.

Not trying to fix anything, just pointing out that some here doth protest too much. As has been pointed out many, many times on numerous threads, those that are truly "all that" don't need to wear a big neon sign that says "hey, know what? I'm all that!" Truths are self-evident, they don't need to be shoved down your throat.

Personally, I love history and traditions. I find that things work best when you learn from the past by keeping, strengthening, and improving on those traditions which have been shown to work best, and culling those traditions which have had negative results and impacts to then replace them with new practices. Something simply being traditional doesn't make it good or bad, it just means it has a history.

Don't sweat it. Just keep balling those openly gay rushees as soon as they cum out.

We hold these truths to be self evident? :)

And of course those who ball shall also shove down throats. Their traditions and elitism, that is.

More awesomeness.

Traditions are great.

But what's unbroken to you can be very broken to someone else. That doesn't mean that tradition has to change but that we need to be critical of what things are used to continue traditions. Despite what this society has claimed for decades, discrimination is not an honorable part of tradition.

Not a gay joke but rather finding humor in word usage by those who protest about homosexuality.

Blackballing would be the correct term but if you must try hard to make a race (not racist, duh) joke, are you about to discuss NBA players? :)

Yeah I'm really torn up and outraged at what you tried to do here. Good job.

Well you can try, but I'm sure it won't be as funny.

Oh, you'd lose that bet. And I tell you what, the first time I actively use the word "ball" when I'm trying to sound superior to gays or "blackball" in any context in a post, please feel free to go to town with the chuckles...

It's funny like one of my platonic male friends who despises homosexual men but loves lesbians. Anyway, he's quick to say things like "only gay men touch each other like that" or "only gay dudes take photos standing so close together."

But when I see him playing sports, he's smacking dudes' asses. LOL. And when I see him hanging with his fraternity brothers, they are interestingly close. I call him out for his situational masculinity all the time. Jokes for daaaaaays.

Does his fraternity rhyme with Shlomega Sli Phi?

Communal showers are gay. Who does that in 2008?

Gay and poor.

I completely understand this line of reasoning.

So would you be heartbroken if you found out that a brother you showered with (do you shower with?) came out of the closet after a year or two of seeing your naked buns?

And for the record, while it's difficult to wrap your mind around showering around someone who is interested in men, many gay men are just not that into you. :)

60 guys living in a house with communal showers is gay and poor. Gross.

You might as well just install cameras and get subscribers.

Whether she knows it or not, eh gubnah? *wink wink*

BAHhahahahahahahaha. I'm choking on green tea right now.

Well, (a) Fail and (b) what would discourage them? envy of your turtlenecks?

Oh it is prejudicial. You're making a judgment based on limited information. All you know about a gay man is that he is attracted to men.