Given that KBG chapter's past history, it seems doubtful that a national would touch them. Also, some of the older girls are Pi Phi alums.

As a member of a (different, not KBG) non-NPC national sorority, I have to say that the continued reference to KBG as a local, or saying things like the above in bold (even if not intended this way), is really starting to bother me. I know that KBG nationally is working hard to expand and I'm sure that members of KBG (at WF or in any other chapter) don't appreciate being referred to as a local. I understand that for most people on this board, NPC is the main frame of reference, and that's fine--but let's not de-legitimize other national sororities.

I'm with Sigmagirl10. Carnation's comment wasn't necessary.

As one of the ones who made a gaffe (while actually TRYING to say the right thing - see below), I sincerely apologize.

Since KBG's chapters are clustered in the NE and upper midwest (seems from their website, anyway) I've honestly never heard of them until this thread. I've heard of dozens of non-NPC groups (that are still national) but this one has escaped me until now. Since WFU was founded with locals (that then were absorbed by NPC groups) it "felt" like KBG should be a local. Does that make sense?

I should have said "Non-NPC" and yet I was trying to say it right.

My hunch is that Carnation's comment was in the same vein as mine.

Yes, it was. I know what happened and I have heard comments from execs of many NPC groups who have said exactly what I said. Some awful things happened at Wake Forest and can mostly be traced back to the group wanting to retain some traditions they used as a local which are completely unacceptable to NPCs.

My issue isn't that you don't think any NPC would touch the chapter given their history--I trust that you know about this unfortunate situation, and I wouldn't dare to express my opinion about a situation I don't know anything about. My issue is the terminology you and others have chosen to use when referring to the chapter currently known as KBG. They are a national sorority, so if NPC is what you mean when you say "national", please say NPC.

shirley1929, no worries, and I think I understand what you meant.

I think Carnation was talking about the actual local society that started in the 1940's and 1950's. It was created as an alternative to Tassels, the honor society at the time. Several others came about (SOPHs, Fideles, etc.). Friends of mine that went to WFU in the 80's say the Strings were considered the wild ones....and I think they had some questionable rituals and traditions that bordered on hazing. Evidently when Pi Beta Phi absorbed them, they continued Strings traditions.

Carnation, correct me if I'm wrong!

UNCAlum, you're exactly right!

Why would a small national not-NPC sorority take a group that was dropped by an NPC sorority for hazing and that retained the same members? Is that normal? It seems to me that a smaller group would have a lot more to lose if there was future hazing and someone got hurt or something?

I imagine there is more to the story than that. I imagine they interviewed and vetted their founding members before agreeing to absorb them as a new chapter. If they were satisfied, I see no reason why we should question their established practices. Anything that came after that initial vetting is their responsibility.

I have to say that you learn something every day. I had never even heard of KBG before this thread and they are HQ in Michigan! Go figure!

Their expansion packet is interesting. I was going to ask if they have any interest in becoming an NPC group, but from what they wrote in there is sounds like they are very happy to be independent of NPC and the necessary entanglements it brings (my words, not theirs).

Which leads me to ask.... Does anyone know of any groups that are working toward becoming a part of NPC?

My Greek cousin was at Wake when Pi Phi was shut down and KBG came on it. From what I gather (and yes this is based on her account and my memory), it was a very quick. Pi Phi announced the closure in early August 2010. The former Pi Phi members contacted KBG and they were a colony less than a month later and installed by the end of the semester. I'm not sure how much "vetting" was actually done. But obviously that is KBGs business.

IMO, I think the fact that KBG immediately took on a group of women who were members of an organization one day and alums the next because of hazing is a questionable decision.

Found what i was looking for:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...&postcount=512

and another:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=95402

KBG is a national sorority that is nearly a hundred years old. To refer to them as "local" is incredibly offensive and there's no excuse for it if you know what you're talking about (which carnation does).

We had several threads about them, apparently they were working toward becoming NPC at one time, NPC went back on several promises they had made to help them, and KBG said eff you. Can't say as I blame them. If that's coming back to bite some NPC chapters in the ass now, so sad too bad - and yes, I would say the same thing no matter what NPC was involved. It might have been to Pi Phi's benefit to keep their chapter open-but-not-open (i.e. have the pledge class stay active sisters but not really do anything) and then recolonize in a year as allowed by the Green Book. If they didn't want to do that - i.e. if they thought not just that group of women but the school is irreperably messed up - being a dog in the manger is just lame.

Pinky657 - if KBG doesn't have a voice in Panhel meetings, then I'm guessing they don't participate in formal rush either?

Pi Phi is unlikely to go back and have anything to do with the KBG chapter. There's a huuuge story which I can't put out here but as long as the KBGs aren't trying to continue to use the Pi Phi name and symbols (and there have been some problems), they won't be hearing from Pi Phi again.

But yes, the KBGs magically appeared a very short time later because some parents wanted their daughters to continue to be Greek. I was told that little if any "vetting" occurred.