LOL.

I agree. Just ask AGDee about that.

I'm assuming so. And it is probably only considered a venal sin as well.

I don't disagree with where you end up. But from the Catholic Church's perspective, as I understand it (and I'm not Catholic), there is a difference.

In the ectopic pregnancy, the understanding is that the intent is not to terminate the pregnancy; termination of the pregnancy is an unavoidable side effect, but it's not the reason for the procedure. The intent is to save the mother's life.

Like I say, I think this line of reasoning can lead to tragic results. But the principle of double effect itself can be a useful tool and has been a useful tool for centuries. The rub comes in specific applications.

American Catholics in particular pay less attention to the rule against birth control and the Church hasn't really resolved it. It's a sin, and they're supposed to confess and stop committing it, but they don't think it's a sin, or view it as an unavoidable one so they continue.


Unsure, I think Catholic hospitals have religious exemptions to providing care that they find immoral which generally consists of abortions and fertility treatments, I can't really think of anything else. (Not 'pulling the plug' too I suppose.) Knowing that, the responsibility is probably on the patients. Maybe the ambulance but that could be hard to sell.

Also, I think in these situations abortion is legal through, well birth. There are very few late-term abortions ever done but this would qualify as necessary if she had been so much further along. (Not disagreeing with you, just thinking she could have been anywhere in such a dangerous pregnancy and gotten one.. just not at a Catholic hospital.)

What he said.

And this is what I will never understand or agree with. How can you be so concerned with the afterlife and unborn fetuses that you are not concerned with the lives that are already here and will be greatly impacted. What about this woman's other children? Do they not deserve a mother because of one child that is not even in the world yet and will likely die anyway? Religion or not, this is ridiculous! Sometimes as human beings, we just have to use our common sense. No disrespect to the Catholics, but I am sooo not a fan of the Catholic Church. At the end of the day, we all know that much of their rules serve man, not God. Yeah, I said it!!!!

The thinking would probably be along the lines of God will provide.

Surgery for ectopic pregnancy is done to save the life of the mother ONLY when done for Ruptured ectopic pregnancy. This is a huge distinction because patients with ectopic pregnancy frequently come in with complaints such as bleeding and abdominal pain prior to having life threatening complications from the ectopic pregnancy. Would you have to wait until you had a life threatening complication before the surgery is okay? When the ectopic is identified, surgery or methotrexate therapy is done immediately to terminate the pregnancy because the pregnancy is not viable and has a high likelihood of killing the mother if not addressed. This is actually the most common presentation of ectopic pregnancy, which is quite similar to the situation in the OP.

And I don't buy it, not for a minute. I don't believe that most people really believe in their religion because if they did, they wouldn't do the things they do and continue to do them over and over again. People have gotten good at following rules, not following God. How many people do you know that are actually trying to walk the walk? Exactly.

You're like... 12 steps past where my understanding of ectopic pregnancy ends :p But I found this Catholics United for the Faith

You can read the whole thing for a full explanation. But in short:

It's shit like this that makes me know I probably won't miss Christianity.

But the people who DO believe are running the Church. Even their idiocy around the child sex abuse scandal can be explained through the religious beliefs (although certainly not excused.) So they make the rules.

I'm sure there are more Catholic women who have had abortions and don't say a word about them to their local priest and who continue to attend Mass. They're wrong according to the rules, but not wrong according to their beliefs.

I don't think this has anything to do with Christianity.

Many of them don't TRULY believe either. How can you believe and molest children? and not once or twice but repeatedly?

My point is that they may think they believe, but they don't really. What's funny is that if you truly believe that God knows you regardless of what you show others, then why don't you think God sees right through you in everything that you do? Your heart, your true intentions whether you ask for forgiveness or not? I'll tell you why... because many don't really believe what they preach; they just need to control the flock. That's how organized religion got started...a need to control the flock.

This. :D
Again, while I don't disagree with where you come down, the Catholic position (as I understand it) would be that salvation, as in eternal life in heaven, is impossible without baptism (or baptism by desire/by "fire"). An aborted fetus is, in that view, deprived of any possibility of salvation unless it survives post abortion long enough to be baptized. That, in the traditional Catholic view, is a major thing with eternal consequences.

Not saying I agree with it, but that is the perspective the Catholic Church is operating out of.

No disrespect, but here -- let me state my disrespect. :rolleyes:

It has to do with the perspective on this issue in one strain of Christianity. But otherwise, co-sign.

Hardly a phenomenon limited to Catholics or Christians.

People are inconsistent, hypocritical, and extremist.

As with every other religion, there are Christians who are irrational and use religion as an excuse to do a lot of crazy things.