I can too....and I hate to say it, but those chapters are not good at their respective campuses....at all.

DSTS, I see what you're saying, and nobody ever denies that there are some minorities who probably have things in common with me or my fraternity. However, we're using pretty isolated cases here. Sure, I'm generalizing, but the majority of black kids I went to college with had no desire to be in my fraternity, nor did they have much in common with us. Theres also a difference between people we can have fun with and people you'd want in your group. Recruits and football players go to Auburn fraternity parties sometimes, and I'm sure they usually have a good time. However, that doesn't mean they'd want to be in the fraternity, nor does it mean we'd want them to be. I just don't see the point in being "diverse" for diversity's sake. If they come, let them come, but I see no reason to make some concerted effort to get a black guy to join.

Minerva, I don't think its wrong to have connections. Do some people get screwed out because of it? Sure, but generally the people who get those benefits are pretty qualified. I won't lie, I probably got my DC internships because of my fraternity affiliation and my family. That being said, I'm not unqualified to get them, and its something other applicants with similar resume's didn't have. Now, if its an obvious abuse of privilege, then I'd probably have a problem with it. But a lot of the time, people with power have friends and associates who happen to be some of the best and the brightest, and thats a pretty good pool to choose from.

you went there blackandgold, not anyone else.

i am guessing that you are referring to the brouhaha that supposedly happened when gamma phi beta extended a bid to a black woman? they saw a young woman who they thought would make a great member. it was other people(including the campus newspaper) that wanted to make a big deal out if it.

i was actually referring to the zta chapter at fsu, the zta chapter at samford, the zta chapter at ucf, the zta chapter at stetson(their president last year was a black woman), the pi kappa alpha chapter at fsu, the theta chi chapter at ucf, and the phi kappa psi chapter at auburn. they all have black members, to mention just a few.

macallan- the fsu ztas, the samford ztas, the ucf ztas and the fsu pikes ARE among the tops on their respective campuses. i cannot speak for the others.

no offense, but I went to Auburn, whats a phi sig?

none taken-i will have to look up the chapter to make sure i have the name correct.

oops- it is phi kappa psi at auburn.

No I was not thinking explicitly about the member that joined GFB, but rather that there had to be a big deal about it. If it was such a regular phenomenon, why the "bruhaha?" As far as I know, there have been a limited number of black women to join in the NPC sororities there.

Is anyone on here from Alabama that could speak on this? Am I off base?

no one said that blacks joining npc or ifc groups in the south was a regular thing. someone implied that southern sororities and fraternities do not have black members and i was trying to let them see that that is not true.

before we can determine if blacks joining npc and ifc groups is common or rare, we would have to know how many blacks participated in npc or ifc recruitment and of those people, how many were extended a bid.

to take it further, we would need to know the reason that those who were not extended a bid, did not receive one. did they have a gpa that was at or above the gpa requirement of panhellenic, but had a gpa that did not meet the sorority's required gpa? i don't know why , but it seems that often the required gpa to participate in recruitment is lower than many of the sororities required gpa.

did they decide that they did not have the time to devote to the pledgeship?

was the cost prohibitive?

were they offered a bid, but decided that that chapter was not for them?

if they were not offered a bid, were they on the bid list, but that chapter reached quota before they got to that person?

if they were dropped by the chapter, was if because they were black, or was it because the member rushing the pnm did not mesh well with the pnm?

kk_gphib_01 is an alumna of the Alabama Gamma Phi chapter you spoke of and was a collegian when her chapter became the first NPC on campus to integrate in 2003.

There have been a limited number of black women to join in the NPC sororities at Alabama because there are a limited number of black women that choose to register to rush. I only saw one black woman go through rush the four years I was there.

I know a little about yachts, yes.

I don't know about the ztas...however Pikes are not tops at FSU. We aren't allowed to have conversations like this here, but they are far from it. The big house isn't a factor, it's the people.

That maybe true....however I don't really think Florida State and Central Florida in a discussion about Southern greek life and major chapters. I tend to think Ole Miss, Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, LSU, UGA, W&L....I think yo uget the picture.

.....also, Pike is not tops at FSU.....

What do you base that logic on? We can all certainly name a high profile elected official who makes up words, had never been out of the country before taking office and had a raging alcohol problem, but still rose to power. And he certainly relied on his family and frat brothers for his opportunities. (This is just an example. Getting into that is another thread.) Anyway. . .don't get me wrong, all things being equal, I'm probably going to hire someone from my sorority, or my university, or my hometown etc. However, I'm going to make sure that "all things are equal" and I'm going to go out of my way to make sure that there is inclusion for those that should have a say, especially in a public institution.

I estimate that blacks joining NPC and IFC organizations is not that common in the grand scheme of things but it is more common than whites joining NPHC organizations.

With Phi Beta Sigma and Zeta Phi Beta comprising the largest percentage of those. (:D)

That's it? You're a small fry.

Interesting
 

Elephant Walk and Shinerbock are saying out loud several of the "reasons" that good, smart, otherwise-not-racist members of GLOs at most of the SEC schools don't integrate their chapters.

The most elitist groups and group members end up controlling the racial attitudes in the system because other groups aren't brave enough to risk integrating since the "top" chapters aren't integrated. Any group wanted to improve its rank in the tiers has a hard time taking any risks.

Personally, I’d love to see a top chapter prove exactly how much of a top group it is by pledging some of the of the kids who happen to be Black but who also went to the same high schools, have professional parents, hold high educational goals and achievements, and who enjoy having white friends. At the big southern schools there are many Black students who fit that description, but they need to be actively recruited to go through rush. They’ve seen the system in action and have no reason to sign up for rush on their own.

One thing I want to throw out into the debate on race and class is that there are a lot of white people who aren't invited to join the most exclusive clubs and groups. Being white, even if you aren't trashy or redneck, in itself doesn't get one all of the perks. You might be less likely to get hassled by the cops if you are white, but being white alone doesn’t get you an invitation to join the country club or SAE.

So what I’m asking, I guess, is that the non-white members of the board don’t generalize too much about the benefits of white privilege. Some of us whities don't benefit that much from being white, and some of the activities that are undertaken to open things up or diversify, end up affecting non-elite, not-well-connected whites more than they break down the power of the elites.