We could all probably make our points easier wihtout direct personal attacks . . . or if/then personal attacks.

Russ, if you feel the need to call me a bigot, feel free. I am not, and have never been such. I'm not going to be baited into another of your petty, childish spats on GC. We've all seen far too many to want to take that route.

For those of you whom I may have offended with my comment, my apologies. I'm not the wordsmith that 33girl is :)

Having lived longer doesn't make one wiser. It's how you apply what you learn to life.

I am however irritated that just because someone is older than i am, they think they know more. I dont even understand why this is so importnat for him to argue. It makes for good debate but saying you know more than someone else bc youve been around longer isnt a valid point. Sorry.

First off, Erik Conard is "Not Some Dumb Ass" Got it KD!

Secondly, He is older, but, He has more damn Greek knowledge in His little finger than most of you ever thought about knowing. Got that Russ.

Thirdly, He is still envolved not only with His Fraternity, TKE, but works with others if needed.

Fourthly, He does keep updated on many events that are going on In The Total Greek World.

Remember, TKE was one of the first to try colonizing on 2 year Colleges and it didnt work. It was brought up at LXA General Assembly and was tabled because of track records. Yes, there were a few that made it, but damn few.

If some would get off of your rightous soap boxes and really read what He is Posts then you might become a better Greek as He is and has been for many years.

Some are so easy to go for the throat of someone who you do not care for their beleifs, but some of us dont care for yours but dont attack you everytime you post something.

I for one knowing This Gentleman for many years admire Him, I may not agree with everything He says and I let Him know it, He has the right to post it!:p

Granted you all have the same right as He does, I do and You do. But get civil, get your facts straight first.

As far as LARGE Groups, I for one agree, I feel that I want to know My Brothers, not be the biggest of the big and not know someone.

Yep it is about right, 20 % do the work and 80 % dont do squat, they are just a damn number to build memebership! They know their only Little Qlicks of Sweetys!

Just as expected, the usual Tom up Erik's ass post.

Hey Tom, work on the reading comprehension, Erik called us all "flat ass dumb". I was quoting his words.

I don't give a crap how much you say he knows, his posts here, as well as yours, display great ignorance. Blatantly false claims and total utter rudeness are not the marks of an educated man.

It's a lovely representation of TKE for him to call us all these names and be so rude to everyone.

And, you are more than welcome!:rolleyes:

Wooly Bugger is working for sure!:D

And what knowledge do you profess to?

I dont want to go any further .

So it's okay for Erik to get off with calling everyone else younger than him a "dumb ass" but it's not okay for someone to show him the same treatment? :rolleyes:

Just because he's older and has had more experience does not give him the right to treat his fellow Greeks in a condescending manner.

Just because he's got years of Greek life under his belt does not make him a better person than any of us.

And if he wants us to take him and his views seriously, calling everyone's posting "dumb ass" is NOT going to help.

I don't agree with Erik's post, but you don't need to say stuff like that either. Don't make it out like he's representing all 270,000 of us. You know as well as I do that that's not true. Not only that, but it makes me, as a member, take sides in the argument...something I don't wish to do because I think everyone has valid arguments.

Erik is a greek who is expressing his opinion (maybe not in the most tactful way). The fact that he's a Teke has nothing to do with the argument.

I have found in most organizations that I have been a part of, about 20% do most of the work. Of the 80% some do little to nothing, but many just don't know what to do. Maybe it should be 20% do 80% of the work, 60% do 20%, and 20% do 0%. I think that you just have to tell people what to do. I have found that if you give this group specific jobs, most of them will do those jobs successfully.

We should all stop looking down on each other and ripping on each other. Theres going to be opposite views on this post and thats good for anyone wishing to debate.

Thats 20% thing goes for ANY group. My group is smaller than it normally is (under 20) and its still only about 20% of the people doing the work. It sucks but some people just have different reasons for doing stuff and some people do more work than others. Assuming that a large group isnt as good as a small one is still rude though. Each greek organization is unique in how they do things and how they run. I say that coming from a small, tight knit group of girls. Even when we were bigger we were tight. We have our own special ways of keeping in touch with each other because its impossible to see and talk to everyone all the time. It tends to work really well for us and I imagine the other orgs have their own ways of being sisters.

Plus, I was alwyas under the impression that a true sister in an org. with multiple chapters has a special bond with everyone that wears those letters. Just as I may not know all the alumni from my group really well, but I have a bond with them and would feel comfy talking to any of them. Thats what its all about! Phi Nu is my family and I think it rocks that I have such a big family now and no matter where I am I can call someone for help or a shoulder to lean on.

I just think if you wear your letters proudly and live by them you are going to have an understanding with anyone else that wears them.

honestly, i really don't think you're going to be close, close, close with your entire chapter no matter how big or small it is. unless you have a chapter of like 12 or 15.

you'll have your 5 or 6 best friends, then it goes out from there, ie. good friends, friends, people you don't really talk to but don't dislike, and then the people you just don't get along with.


i also totally agree with everyone who said that only about 20% of the chapter is super involved with running and being active in the chapter or any organization. and once again the involvement trickles down from there.

You're new to the site and don't know the history of Erik and Tom.

Both constantly accuse all of us youngin's of being a poor representation of our respective GLOs.

I am merely pointing out to them that they are poorly representing their GLOs by being rude and condescending to all of us. I in no way said he was representative of all Tekes. A case of the pot calling the kettle black.

For this discussion to be more profitable we would have to define what we are talking about better.

Brotherhood and sisterhood are words we throw out there a lot, but don't necessarily have the same meaning to everyone thats hearing them.

Think of the term Family Values when tossed around by politicians.

A very diverse audience will define that term to themselves in different ways, but everyone in the audience will think they have strong family values and would be offended as hell if someone else cast doubt on them or criticised them.

That brings us to our current dicussion. I think we can agree that at its most basic, brotherhood and sisterhood could be defined as the comraderie between members of a group.

When we are judging it we are talking about the intensity of that comraderie, that bond between people.

We are speaking about an intangible that goes beyond simple friendship into feelings based on shared identity, tasks and mission.

Judging that sense of comraderie or espirit de corps between people is difficult. Its also unique both to the group and the situation.

So for someone to state that a large group has less brotherhood or sisterhood than a small group is as illogical as saying a smaller group will have more comradeship than a larger one.

They are just flip sides of the same false statement.

However, it does give a starting point to a better discussion: Namely what are the signs of a lack of tight sisterhood and brotherhood, What are the signs of a strong one, and what can be done to make a group tighter?

Re: trouble ahead?
 

I personally find nothing "superficial" about my chapter, one of 16 on a campus with chapter total in the 170's. I may not be best friends with each and every one of my sisters, but I find that the situation presents me with more opportunities to meet interesting girls that share a bond with me. Our chapter has sisters from around the country--girls with experiences completely different from mine that I can learn from.

While it may be true that we have sisters who aren't involved as much as some, no sister does absolutely nothing. Some hold offices, others volunteer for committees, and we all participate in recruitment. So what if it's a mandatory thing we must all do? We all do it. I may not attend every social, but I am at every chapter meeting I can be(barring illness or a monster test the next day).

It would be nice to have a deep relationship with each and every sister. But I find that I have spent enough time them that I can identify every sister, and some alumnae, walking through the crowd here on Game Day, wearing letters or not. Even if it is something so little as helping a sister with her hair or makeup before a recruitment party, I have spent time with every sister one on one. Is that really so bad?

I am going to ignore all the flaming posts and simply say this:

There are approximately 138,000 Alpha Gams and each time I meet a new one, no matter the circumstance, I feel a certain instant bond that is sisterhood.

Dee