Thanks for the non-response. It was useful.

Unitarians can be Christians, but it's not necessary.

I thought the above were deists.

18th century Deism is the closest thing to modern Unitarianism.

Since we have both Canadians and Americans weighing in on this topic, something to keep in mind:

"If people tell you they want to stick to the hard and fast rule of separation of church and state, tell them to consult Canada’s laws. That’s an American law. In Canada our laws are governed by religious accommodation."

http://www.stephenhammond.ca/newslet...ails.php?id=58 (He's a great lawyer and a phenomenal public speaker also)

happy...wait i mean MERRY CHRISTMAS yall

Amen, same to you sir.

That's worth repeating :) Hope everyone had a great day!

Religious Accommodation true, but Canada doesn't have a separation of church & state; the Queen is the Head of State and the head of the Anglican Church and many of our foundational documents, laws, traditions and even National Anthem reflect that - which is why at state events and ceremonies it is an Anglican priest that leads the service parts (Remembrance Day, Opening of Parliament, Swearing in of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, Swearing in of the Governor General, etc.) and yet with all that it is interesting to note how we are pointed at as a secular nation with an assumed separation of church and state simply because of the principle of religious accommodation that took years to develop.

Oh one final note - Anglicans don't even come close to being the majority of Christians in Canada... Canada is a Catholic nation in practise (12 million Catholics to 9 million Protestants altogether).

We're Catholic because of our French heritage. I think Protestants would outrank only slightly if we are talking about Canada outside Quebec (sure, many Quebecois don't go to church, but they consider themselves Catholic nonetheless.) And that's only if all Protestants are grouped together, whether they are fundementalists/evangelical/right wing or "main line."

Question: If the swearing in ceremony of the PM, Cabinet, GG, etc...what happens if the individual is not Christian and is uncomfortable with an Anglican priest? Do they decline?

Ok, I have to touch on this....

I have to admit I was little shocked at the Huckabee ad, but then think who is voter base is? Christians. In fact that is one of the main reasons he has jumped in the polls. One of the points he runs on is his religious roots, he was a Baptist preacher before he entered politics!

I liked the ad, and I thought it was funny everybody copied after him....

I have many friends who are Jewish, and they don't know mind if someone tells them Merry Christmas, they just wish Happy Hannukah was addded occasionally...

I've never understood why Christians fight so hard for the Christmas Tree, in particular, when it is not really a Christian symbol.

Anyway, I'm in agreement with whomever said 'why does the tree need a name anyway?' Is there a sign up that says Christmas/Holiday Tree?

Totally entitled to your opinion of course, but I guess the authors of the constitution and bill of rights were "lost in life." I seem to remember something in there about the government not establishing any religion....

I think you're missing the point. I don't think anyone is out there saying "christmas is offensive." They just don't want it being sponsored by government by being in a public building. I certainly hope you can appreciate the important distinction... and if you can't maybe you should ask yourself if it would offend you if you lived in a middle-eastern country, paid taxes, but were part of a christian minority... and the government put up non-christian religious symbols around the holidays, refusing to honor a christian minority with a christmas tree? Would that make you feel like your beliefs were being judged.

If I lived in a predominatly Jewish/Muslim/etc country/area, I would fully expect to see decorations up for their religious holidays, and I wouldn't find it offensive. And if I did, I suppose I would leave or get over it. (Yeah, that's oversimplified, but whatever).

Totally agree -- the Christian base is exactly why he is doing it. I'm sure he doesn't care that he alienated other religions. He probably figures he won't get their vote anyway.

I guess that I am just a little put off when any politician panders to a specific religion. I think it minimizes the less religiously-charged issues like the environment and poverty to issues like abortion and gay marriage. I'd like to see some other issues discussed this year... I think whatever your position is on these issues, we could stand for taking some time off from issues that the government is never going to solve anyway.

Would it matter if you and your family were born there v. you as a foreigner moving there?

Probably not, although I'll give you that it's easier for me to say because I'm not in that position. But it only goes as far as tolerance of other religions - I would NOT be okay with a government/society that promotes only one religion and forbids practise of other religions.

ETA: I had a very MILD chance to be in that position - I had a 3rd grade teacher that was Jewish, and she brought a Dreidel, Hanukiah, and we learned the songs "Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel" and "Chanukah, Oh Chanukah". I thought it was pretty cool, and didn't feel at all threatened as a Christian.

I guess I am just really sympathetic to religious minorities, especially around the holidays when everyone tends to get so "in your face" about celebrating christmas and if you don't celebrate it, then your lives should revolve around others who do. I mean, I certainly there are definitely worse things in the world, but I think it wouldn't kill us to make our society a little more friendly to people of any religion simply because that is what we would want if we were in their position.

Some factors I think that would make me feel isolated, uncomfortable, and just more difficult as a religious minority would be:
- having to use half my vacation time every year to celebrate my own religious holidays, while having to take random days off to honor religions that I don't celebrate.
- working or having to frequently visit a government building and listening to religious songs by carolers and having to walk by christian religious symbols every day.
- watching the media honor christian religious holidays with special programming every year while ignoring minority religions.
- being told "merry christmas" by every sales person for about a month every year and having them look offended at me if I don't return the sentiment or (gasp) say something like "happy hannukah" or "happy kwanzaa."
- watching my tax dollars spent on things that honor christian holidays (vacation of government employees, government christmas trees and nativity sets, government statues and other decorations that display christian biblical things, etc.)

(note: not all of these things I think can be solved, but I think that they are things to consider in possibly doing something symbolic that might really make someone feel more included ... like putting up a friggin menorah or other religions' symbols as ornaments on a "holiday" tree that taxpayers of all religions pay for.)

Wow. I cannot imagine this happening today in a public school (I don't know if that applies to your school). In law school we had a jewish professor take off every year for a week to celebrate passover about 2 weeks before finals. Students complained that she shouldn't be allowed to do this because she should have to be available to answer questions in person and that it made her office too busy for one-on-one time the week before finals. I think that experience opened my eyes to just how ridiculous people can be in expecting the non-christian world to revolve around the Christian religion without making adjustments for minorities.

The thing is though, most of the in-your-face Christmas stuff is not even really Christian. It's completely commercial or has pagan roots (trees, lights, wreaths, etc.) You don't really see Nativity scenes anywhere outside of churches. Technically, Easter is supposed to be more important than Christmas. It's just commercialization that's made Christmas "more important" (that and the fact that kids get 2 weeks off from school...spring break isn't always around Easter)

And they can't fire her... pretty funny. It sucks that she doesn't care about her students though.

I think it just proves how ridiculous some of those law students are, and that they think the world revolves around them ;) Of course we live in a state that is super religious, and mostly of the Mitt Romney variety, but I'm a Christian Protestant and even I couldn't believe the Christmas trees and other decorations in public buildings. In a private business or home, sure, but on government property I find it questionable. Where I work they used to close from Christmas to New Years, and now if people want to work (other than Christmas and New Years Day) they can. I was the only person scheduled to cover the office today and that's fine, heck I would've worked yesterday as long as I could attend a morning service.

No matter where I lived, I would go by the "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" philosophy.

True, but lets not pretend that they were God less heathens that worshipped the sun.

No, I would be happy just to be alive. Besides a lot of those countries ban Christianity anyway.

Well, lots of Chinese are Christian, at least in this part of the world, so yeah, they'll celebrate Christmas.

BARF


Since when did the government start sending out carolers?


Holy Shit you're a GRINCH!

BARF!

I hope your bleeding heart liberal approach to Christmas never gets realized.

What?!?

Seems your just like the students that expect the world to revolve around their faith, and can't understand or respect the observances of another - I'm sure the students were informed well in advance that she'd be taking days of for religious reasons, and if those students weren't smart enough to make arrangements to allow for this then it reflects poorly on them not the professor.

It's a shame that more don't follow that philosophy, and accept a pluralistic view of faith in society... of course I suspect that wasn't your point.

Apparently you missed the WWE Christmas event coverage in Iraq then...

It cracks me up everytime he gets y'alls goats with his outlandish statements.

If you see a 450lb WWE Superstar in shorts, are you really going to say something to him? SRSLY. Plus, it was an American event, attended by Americans. I don't think they paraded around Baghdad in their wresting costumes.

... and I hope to God that more jackasses like you come around to her "liberal" approach of accommodation, respect, or empathy when it comes to accepting that not everyone is exactly like you.

It's Christmas which is a time to reflect upon the birth of Christ and what he meant for the world - "Peace on Earth" and "Respect for your fellow man"... and to me that means respecting that not even all Christians celebrate Christmas the same way or at the same time, and to respect that just as I hope they respect my religious practises.

So when the big Christmas dinner rolls around and all the family and friends gather it means as a gracious and respectful host I take steps to ensure that people with different dietary needs are accommodated and that people of different faiths/denominations aren't left-out ~ it's just expected of a good host... and you can make of that what you will when the same principle is applied at all levels of society.

Probably - I got a mouth and I'm opinionated, and I can't stand the WWE or the values it promotes... and I have said so in the past (of course he was in a suit at the bar).

... and graciously broadcast as well for stations and posts that couldn't personally attend - so everything was fine as long as no Iraqis bothered to watch TV ;)

If you don't like it, don't watch it.

This is like that woman that tried to get Touched By An Angel taken off the air - THERE ARE OTHER CHANNELS. If the Playboy Channel is against your values, DON'T WATCH IT.

They were in my local courthouse for a week this year.

Not really... I like holiday programming as much as the next person and my own house is pretty decked out. I'm not advocating that we get rid of any of it, but that we consider how much it is out there when we make the decision to let the GOVERNMENT put up decorations that advocate specific beliefs ... the problem I have is when GOVERNMENT money and GOVERNMENT personnel start trying to make the GOVERNMENT support only one religious faith's holiday.

And I'm failing to see how your point that most of "those countries" ban christianity anyway addresses my hypothetical anyway. It is a hypothetical, so use your imagination. I think that many of us think we would be fine being a minority religion and wouldn't want acknowledgment of our faiths, but I think that the simple fact that so many people are so reluctant to give up ANY acknowledgment of a majority religion is a perfect demonstration of how personal religious practice is and how frustrating it is when there are obstacles. If you think that making symbolic acknowledgments of a minority religion is a problem, I'd hate to think how you'd cope with living in a country that all but ignored your beliefs, but required you to make concessions for others' religious practices more convenient.

As Cutiepie2000 said, when in Rome, do as the Romans. If I lived in a country that was, say, majority/historically Scientology and only celebrated things Scientology then that's the way that country works. I may or may not take off Christian holidays. Also, I wouldn't worry about any kids I have being brainwashed/converted because the best school in the land is the John Travolta Academy, which requires its students to study Scientology without (much) acknowledgement of other religions.

I really hope you all are supporting the Wisconsin economy by drinking some Spotted Cow while you are reading this thread.

Who the hell do you think you are bud?? When did I ever say that I wouldn't respect anothers belief because it doesn't reflect my own? You need to stop posting on this one, canadian, because you don't seem to fully understand American culture, especially concerning Christmas. One last thing.. just want to say your WWE in Iraq post was garbage. Local Iraqi television doesn't get USO shows, and the households that have satellite can see a lot worse than WWE I'm sure. HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!

Someone expressing an opinion, just as you do and are.

I just assumed given your responses to those that fell outside your beliefs or reflection of them, but perhaps I misread when you took shots at the beliefs of JWs... or your responses to Skylark in which the "dangerous" idea of respect and empathy where expressed.

Listen shit-stain I don't appreciate the disrespectful and insulting fucking lack of capitalization of my country, nor the dismissive/insulting tone it was used in. :mad:

Why are you so mean??:(

I thought you were a touchy-feely everyone gets a fair share of pie socialist?