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As for the waiting rule, it is traditionally how some nationals approach a clean slate to their collegiate chapters. Get rid of them and then redo it. In other instances, it is the university that imposes the rule, OFSA in our case, and force a chapter from being able to return to campus for X amount of years. Alpha Sigma Phi was a bad situation, and I felt bad for how they got thrown off. Being on the judicial board, it was a tough situation with how to deal with them. Delta Phi hasn't returned yet, and I don't know if they have plans to come back. St Elmo's is magnificent from what I hear these days. For AXO, I won't post any comments here, not that they are bad, but it's something we could discuss over PM if necessary. From what I hear though, you guys are coming back in a good way... Did you put those letters back up yet though? Rutgers is improving it's relations with the Greek community, so don't think things are getting better. I've read through the steering committee's draft report from Dr. Dennis and I think it has potential. The greek life there is only as good as you guys want it to be. Just have fun and don't worry. AXPAlum |
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It's really nice to see someone remembers me :) I've been so busy these past few months, sometimes you just don't have enough time to do everything. Boston is getting cold again so soon, so I'll be returning to this message board a little more. Hopefully I can add to the wisdom of the message board a little more :D One that note, what did I miss ? ;) AXPAlum |
Ok, I'll preface this with: I am new to the whole Panhellenic thing. As a member of a local chapter that wants to go National so badly it hurts, I have tried to learn as much as I can about how Panhellenic works. On my campus we have a struggling chapter. They are the main reason that my group has not been allowed to pursue a National Organization officially. (We've been speaking to one group quietly, and have been given advice on what we need to do to prepare ourselves but our local Panhellenic does not want to bring on another National group with one already struggling to make their numbers.) It's rumored that the struggling group may close and recolonize next year.
Okay, so now on with my comments.... My understanding is that NPC has a relatively new rule (3-4 years or so old) that says that a group can close its chapter and recolonize within one calendar year without having to repetition Panhellenic or go through a Panhellenic vote. After the one year, the chapter is subject to all of the usual permissions - i.e., the campus must be ready for expansion and the local Panhellenic must vote for expansion - and then there is no guarantee that the chapter that recently closed will be the one selected to expand. If my understanding of the policy is correct, then I don't blame an NPC group for wanting to reopen a chapter within the year. Otherwise they are risking never returning to that campus, right? If you ask me, NPC may be setting the member organizations up for failure. With that said, I don't really see anything wrong with wanting a new chapter to be able to establish its own identity. How can they do that when everywhere they look, women are wearing letters that don't actually belong to their local chapter? What's so wrong with asking members of the former chapter to quietly fade into the background while this new group of women build their new chapter. Seems to me that letting the "old" chapter members be involved is like seeing a sign on a restaurant, "Under New Management", walking in, and seeing the same hostess, servers, and bartenders... why would I expect the food to taste any differently? Personally, I think this particular issue is OLD. Alpha Xi Delta's name keeps coming up over an issue that is three years old. AND, I might add, that while the perceptions of a chapter member are very real and I don't doubt that this is how she perceived the way everything played out, there are at least two sides to every story and we have only heard one - okay two if you count the campus newspaper which I always take with a grain of salt. I think this has been a good discussion but I would suggest that if anyone sees a reason to continue the topic, that a new thread be opened that isn't aimed at one group in particular. |
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I PM'd you... |
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I don't think anybody is associating this solely with Alpha Xi Delta, though. It's a Panhellenic problem. As mentioned, Sigma Kappa asked collegians of a closed chapter to do the same thing, and I'm sure many other organizations that do immediate recolonizations have similar policies. And none of us have perfect IHQs who treat their sisters perfectly fairly all the time. I'm sure most of us can tell horror stories about one member of our IHQ who should just not have been in the position she was in. Do immediate recolonizations work? It seems like most of the stories I've heard about them are negative, leading to hurt feelings on the collegians' side and no real improvement for the new chapter since there is no time to let their previous reputation die. Girls are still hesitant to join a chapter with a "reputation" (true or not), even if the girls in that chapter are completely different from the ones that created the reputation. Does anybody know of some successful immediate recolonizations? |
Adding my 2cents before this manages to get locked.
Regarding the alumnae being asked not to wear letters I think it's all in how it's presented. Sororities rarely close (in comparison to fraternities) due to risk management. So you can bet on the fact that if a national is recolonizing a chapter quickly it's a numbers/financial issue. While each and every sister of the defunct chapter may have been outstanding for whatever reason they just weren't working out with the schools Greek scene. {I'm talking in a general sense and not referring to any particular school or org.}
When you're a new alumna it takes time to transition from "active collegiate" mindset to "active alumna" mindset. This is true regardless of the situation regarding your alumna status. This is the same reason that advisors are generally asked to wait 3-5yrs before advising a collegiate chapter. Especially thier own. If your chapter closed and you're now alumna but the group is recolonizing it's even more difficult to adjust. You still have all the same interests and concerns as any active but you also have the responsibilities of an alumna. {All of that to get to my simple point.} There's a huge difference between 1) a national asking you to be alumna and act as an alumna. ie Join alumnae chapter and not become overly involved in collegiate chapters. (Meaning don't try to relive your glory days.) 2) A national asking you to not participate in anything period. Simply being asked to not wear letters does not automatically make it case #2 because PNMs would be confused/curious or gossipy and the new initiates would be tempted to cross the line of the alumna/active relationship. IMHO a chapter in this situaton should welcome the collegiate alumnae at meetings but the alumnae should also recognize that they have no say in the chapter business and should not be attempting to attend socials. I would find it acceptable though for the alumnae to attend the occasional sisterhood event though. |
Re: Adding my 2cents before this manages to get locked.
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Nationals also asked us for our help. They especially wanted the help of sisters who had been very active on campus and positive influences in the house - that's what they said, anyway. Anyone who was bitter or apathetic about our chapter's situation was not going to be bothered, but those of us who were dedicated to Alpha Xi Delta and had tried so hard to make the chapter succeed were recruited that Spring to assist with the recolonization in the Fall. We even took the steps of forming a Zeta Omicron (our chapter) Alumnae Association as a way to be organized in our efforts to assist the colony. The executive officers were members who were active when we voted to close the chapter. We did all this with National's blessing. When Fall came, there was a core group of a little more than a dozen older sisters who were committed to helping the house succeed and about that many of the younger sisters who also wanted to help and then rejoin the colony chapter. It should not surprise anyone that the stress of the chapter closing and recolonizing meant that the only sisters still around were the loyal, energetic, high-GPA, active on campus types - the best representatives for which any sorority could ask. We were the ones who had been the heart of the chapter, and we showed up, ready for hard work. We were given a schedule of events. We helped tidy up the chapter house. We offered advice about UF's Greek system and what we thought was needed to succeed here. Then, the recolonization process started. Suddenly and completely unexpectedly, sisters who showed up at events - events that they had been asked to attend - were told that they were not welcome and should leave. The representatives from Nationals told us to tell everyone to stay away from the chapter house, we were not welcome inside, and not to wear letters. :eek: No explanation, just suddenly wanting to pretend we didn't exist. |
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/hijack |
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There are quite a few NPC groups that have been very successful recolonizing immediately on a wide variety of campuses. Technically, these are different chapters for most groups as when a chapter is recolonized they get a new charter and their chapter name changes in some fashion in most organizations.
This is a dramatic oversimplification but the reason why people recognize them as a different group is that they usually are very different. They look different, they act different, they socialize differently, they sometimes live somewhere different or their house is completely remodeled. Most groups recolonize not just because their numbers are low but because the group lacks a positive image on campus and is generally unhealthy (according to the standards of that group or for that campus). Everyone realizes that not every recolonization attempt works. In the cases that it doesn't the group usually leaves and comes back. MFC |
>>their chapter name changes in some fashion in most organizations. <<
I don't believe this is true for NPC groups. Generally if a chapter has left a particular campus and then returns, they retain the chapter name they had before. |
Some NPC groups add another letter or a designation of some sort onto their chapter name to indicate that the chapter has been recolonized. That then becomes the chapter's official chapter name.
MFC |
Enough already.
Really. I'm sure that G8Ralphaxi is not really enjoying re-living this situation over and over again. And I'm sure her sisters on the other side are sick of seeing her call them idiots. Let's just let this die. FYI... re-establishment = closing your doors and re-opening within 12 months, as per the NPC resolution re-colonization = closing your doors and re-opening after 12 months has passed at the invitation of the institution re-organization = ("flush and rush") get rid of dead weight, keep the rest and recruit |
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As for her sisters on the other side...if one tenth of the things she wrote are accurate, then "idiot" is far too tame a word for those people and I commend G8Ralphaxi on being too much of a lady to not call them by the names she probably uses in private. |
I'm sure her perception of the situation and her memories are accurate...to her way of thinking.
As someone pointed out pages ago, we've seen nothing but one side. Let it go. |
Obviously, I have no personal stake in this so I'm pretty neutral on the whole thing. That said, I would never presume to understand someone's personal feelings regarding a painful situation so I am not comfortable telling them to let it go if they're not ready to do so.
But if G8Ralphaxi's memories or perceptions are accurate only, as you imply, "to her way of thinking", anyone who cares to dispute her version is certainly welcome to post a rebuttal. This was the case when this thread was started in 2000 and remains the case today. *edited to fix an annoying run-on sentence |
I didn't intend to imply that G8Ralphaxi "let it go." How she deals with the situation is up to her. The "let it go" was directed at everyone who feels compelled to continue this thread from three years ago.
I don't know why no one has come here to rebut her story. My only thought is that: 1) it's none of our business 2) the organization doesn't feel the need to air it's dirty laundry on a message board 3) the "idiots" don't want to dignify such statements with a response. Who knows? And if you are intending to reply with a statement to the effect that I am continuing this thread that I have asked others to end, save it. |
much of this continutation on this thread hasn't even been about the specific situation, but rather the general concept of recolonizing at a school when actives-gone-alum are still present. what would you do if that happened to your chapter and you were asked not to be a part of YOUR sisterhood on YOUR campus?! everyone can say "well, whatever is best for my org...", but the truth is that if it happened to one of us, it would *sting* and our opinions would probably start to reform. besides, talking about something a long time after it's happened isn't a bad thing. people learn from history!
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aopiinthesky,
Some GLOs put a "deuteron" after the chapter name when they recolonize...for example Kappa Beta chapter becomes Kappa Beta Deuteron chapter. I think the majority of groups don't do that, however. We recolonized our Kappa Phi chapter 90 years after its closing, and even though the chapter name is completely out of whack w/ our naming conventions, we kept it. and as for everyone who wants us to "let it go," I agree with Moxie...we need to learn from history, not sweep screwups under the rug and keep repeating them. If this situation helped AXiD and any other GLO who reads this to have it NOT happen again, then I think we've performed a public service by re-bringing up this thread. |
And on top of that, had this thread been discussed so in-depth at the time the chapter was shut down, everyone would have accused g8ralphaxi of being "too emotional" and "caught up in the heat of the situation"... I think the fact that she's had a couple of years to consider the situation, which I am sure she has, most certainly makes her insight valuable, if for no other reason then to warn national groups to be more caring and considerate when considering the fate of a chapter.
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Too many sisters and brothers take their national officers to be infalliable gods of greek life. Like others have said, they're human, mistakes are made.
We should always question them. We should always question ourselves. We should always question our group and our policies. How else would anything ever get changed, how else would progress be made? Blindly following a leader or group of leaders isn't the way. A good citizen (whether it be of a country, state, county, city, or GLO) should always question their leaders. Why do you think we have elections? And at least the national council of GLOs are elected. We have a right to know what they're doing, so we can make informed decisions ourselves. I disagree with quite a few policies and actions of national KD. Doesn't mean that I love it any less, but I do disagree. And guess what, that's okay. The world isn't going to come to an end. There's nothing wrong with this thread. Just because it's something negative, doesn't mean it should be locked. The thread, for the most part, has been conducted very plesantly and fairly. Rushqueen, I don't know what your deal is, but you're the only one being mean-spirited on this thread. We're three years removed from the event. I think that's plenty of time for any anger to calm down and it seems like we're having a very productive discussion here. |
I think it's essential to discuss what happens when our nationals mess up. Just as kddani stated, our nationals are not perfect. They do make mistakes. I believe that it is important to question those decisions and make sure that those decisions are for the betterment of the sorority.
I will add that I was a student at UCF during the fiasco with AZD at UF. We did hear bits and pieces of what happened. I then lived with an AZD from UCF during one summer who was very involved with her chapter's exec board and involved with AZD nationally. She never told me the details of the UF AZD situation but, from the little that she did tell me, it correlated 100% with what G8ralphaxi had to say. Why would G8ralphaxi make this up? What satisfaction would it bring? It's obvious from her posts that she was hurt by something that she loved very much. Instead of critizing her, I think that we should learn from her story. It could happen to any of our chapters. |
This is the last thing I'm going to say here. I'm sorry if anyone took my comments as mean spirited, but I take great issue with some statements that were made against an entire organization based on the comments of one person. That's unfair. And it riles me up a bit.
I agree that we should question our leaders. I question the leaders of my own GLO all the time. But, I do so in a respectful manner, neither insulting them or referring to them as the Village Idiot. I continue to go back to the post pages ago where someone pointed out that we only have one side of this story. If that is true, and we can agree on that, I have to question why it is a foregone conclusion that the GLO "screwed up." Yes, G8ralphaxi is obviously very angry with her national organization. However, the rest of us have no clue what steps were taken or where the miscommunication occurred. We don't know that the national organization flat out said "you aren't wanted here - leave" or "thanks for the offer of your help but we've got it under control." Those are two different things. Granted they can be read the same way by the receiver, but that doesn't mean that the person saying it felt that the assistance offered was "inferior" or "embarrassing"...just not needed at that point in time. For the national organization to tell the newest members that they can be a part of the colony and then renig on that - that's not cool. I have to wonder, however, knowing that I was a collegiate member who often heard what I wanted to hear instead of what was said whether or not this was yet another in a long line of miscommunication. We don't know. Quote:
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I will admit it - even though several years have passed, I am still unhappy with the way my chapter was treated. Guilty as charged! Or maybe I'm just human.
For those of you who are taking issue with what I have said, let me clarify a few points that may have been lost in my admittedly long, possibly rambling posts. There were a number of officers from high in our organization who were involved in the situation. Not all of them were bad. Several I actually liked and respected a lot. (Any Alpha Xis out there - the "Care Bear" lady = good person :D ) These women tried to help our chapter, but were outnumbered or outranked by the others. When I say "idiots" I am not referring to everyone. "Village Idiot" was our nickname for the consultant they sent down in the last year we rushed - clearly the most crucial year for our house. She had never been a consultant before and had just graduated from a small northern college. OK, we're in serious trouble, and you send an unexperienced newbie from up north to help us figure out rush at a big Southern university? We tried to give her the benefit of the doubt but she really was not that bright. She spent most of her time ignoring us and sending IMs and emails to her friends up north. Plus her stories about how her 1st choice was "ABC" but she ended up an Alpha Xi and it was "okay" so she stayed. Thanks for the inspiration. There were a couple other idiots, too. One who thought that we could just sing our troubles away. The last year our chapter was in existence, and she's trying to make everyone stay after dinner and sing. Now, I'm all for sisterhood activities, but singing every day? This isn't a Disney musical, darling. I'm not going to waste your time with a play-by-play of all the idiotic things that I witnessed, but I stand behind what I wrote. Some of these people were IDIOTS. Then there was the "Someone-Who-Shall-Remain-Unnamed" who was one of the most vocal. To this day I do not know exactly why she was so bitter towards our chapter (I heard that she was pretty nice to other chapters), but I heard a rumor that some unknowing sister had failed to recognize her and show her proper respect as an alumnae several years before I came (i.e., not standing and clapping upon her entry and giving her the traditional introduction), but that was only a rumor and I can't say for sure. Note: See the part that says "that was only a rumor"? This is the first time in ANY of my posts on this topic that I've said something that I didn't know 100% was a fact. I take offense when I say "They said X and then did Y" and someone thinks I'm distorting the facts. As far as whether we were "hearing what we wanted to hear" - I don't think that's the problem. Believe me, those of us involved talked about all of these events A LOT. Everything that I witnessed was also witnessed by other sisters and we are in agreement about what happened. If you have a couple dozen people and they all tell the same story, I really doubt that they're suffering a mass delusion. Again, it doesn't come down to something that happened on just one day; there was a consistent pattern of behavior over several years. Once again, I will say for the last time, I have been very careful to only post what I know as fact. Events I saw firsthand, verifiable by other people. I would gladly testify in court that everything I have written is true. As far as why there is no response from the "other side" - I would be shocked if there was one. In Fall 2000, the Alligator article at the beginning of this post appeared and the recolonization fell apart, the response from Nationals was that they didn't get enough interested applicants. However, the Alligator had reported that there were 200-300 women who had showed up at the interest meetings. When DZ colonized here recently, they attracted virtually identical numbers at their interest meetings, formed a colony of about 150 new members, and are very successful today. Reread that last paragraph - you judge for yourself whether Nationals was being truthful. I wished I'd saved a copy of the letter they sent out afterwards to the alumnae of our chapter and others in Florida. It was full of so many "inaccuracies" it made my head spin. I doubt that Alpha Xi Delta will be back at UF for a very long time. UF's deans of Greek Affaris told us that they were so horrified by the actions of our National representatives that they would not welcome recolonization efforts for at least the near future. I would not expect them to try again until there is a complete turnover - both at Nationals and at UF, with all of us graduated and new advisors. The house was rented out to TKE for awhile and now is some kind of women-only housing. The quill has been taken off the door and our beautiful letters that were part of the front porch now have an ugly mat glued on top of them. It almost breaks my heart to drive by, so I usually avoid it. I stand by everything I have written here. If you think I've been unfair or mean-spirited, fine. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect your First Amendment rights. Please respect mine. "The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it. Ah Love! could you and I with Him conspire To grasp this sorry Scheme of Things Entire, Would not we shatter it to bits - and then Re-mould it nearer to the Heart's Desire!" from the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, by Edward Fitzgerald |
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I just hope the Village Idiot and the Disney musical director don't have internet access or know about greekchat, and if they do, don't read this thread. Being publicly defamed is a high price to pay for not having the skills to help you save your chapter. That said, all the best to you and your fellow alums. I hope this chapter in your life is the worst you ever face. And I don't wish this on any organization or chapter ever, ever again. :) |
Geez. Somebody forgot to take the broomstick out of her ass today.
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That was necessary. Thanks for your insight.
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I'll come right out and say that I think rushqueen44 is either one of the national officers that G8Ralphaxi *didn't* name in her thread or is "up there" in the organization today. It just seems like she's spending way too much time trying to undermine G8R's story.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks* :rolleyes: *my apologies to Mr. Shakespeare. I know that phrase is overused, but it just fit so well ;) |
Interesting theory...
That could be true. Then again, maybe I'm just somebody who's been there before, both in G8R's shoes and in the idiot's shoes. Perhaps the lady doth protest because the lady is emotionally attached to a similar situation and knows how much it sucks regardless of which side you're on. |
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G8ralphaxi, you're handling this situation, which sucks, with a lot of class, and I'm proud of you for that. :) |
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As I said before, nobody's saying this is an Alpha Xi problem. It's a problem for all of us. Anybody who's been around GC long enough knows that this happens far too often to too many different organizations. |
Re: Re: Adding my 2cents before this manages to get locked.
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With 26 National sororities ran mostly by volunteers I am confident your situation is not unique. :( I know I would have been devastated in that situation and would probably have cut all ties. I hope one day that AXiD will be able to successfully recolonize at UF and that all chapters at UF will be considered strong in their own right no matter how many sisters they may have or what the chapter "image" may be. |
This thing could go round and round forever. Having worked as a national volunteer for Alpha Xi Delta (although not having been involved with the UF stuff) I know that the lines of communication are not always as open as they should be. While things at UF did not go as the collegiate anticipated, I feel sure it didn't go as FHQ or the National Council anticipated either.
Someone made mention that national officer in general think of things from a business stand point not a sisterhood stand point. I think this is not necessarily true. I think they come at it from a sisterhood stand point until the business part gets in the way. If the group is spending tens of thousands of dollars a semester to in visits and help and the chapter still isn't doing well and can't support the chapter house - yes the business part comes in. Is it fair to all the other chapters that are paying their dues to put their money into beating a dead horse so to speak. While I am not making excused for anyone on either side, I feel sure that there may have been some other things going on with this that G8Ralphaxi may not have known about, just as I'm sure there were things going on that the National Council and FHQ staff didn't know about. As was said many times, we need to remember that our leaders are human and can make mistakes (if the president can get caught with his pants down and be forgiven . . . ) . We also need to remember that these women are VOLUNTEERS. They are thinking about their sisterhood, they are giving up their time, energy and probably money to help their national group grow and prosper. I also would like to urge G8Ralphaxi to become an involved and active alumnae. If you were unhappy with your advisor(s) then what better reason - I know that's one reason I became an advisor and an now have to privilege to work as a national volunteer. I may not always be right, but I do the best I can with the information given to me and with the help of the women in the chapter. I find it very sad that you still have bad feelings toward the national organization because of the actions of a few and define the whole by them. Supposedly, "time heals all wounds" and I hope so for G8Ralphaxi, because you cannot change anything on any level without being involved. As I said earlier, I hope you will become an involved alumnae, either with a alumnae association or with a collegiate group. Your experiences could be of tremendous help. I know that I cherish my experiences with the women I meet as an advisor as much or more than my collegiate experiences - I hope that someday this is the same for you. :) |
Many Years Later
I came across this forum while checking to see if UF's Alpha Xi Delta chapter ever recolonized.
I was one of the sister's who was initiated to find out a semester later the chapter was in trouble. Our sorority house was not paid off and there were not enough sisters to maintain the bills coming in. There was hope that if we increased our recruitment efforts we'd be able to pull through. Unfortunately, by the time we were aware of the financial situation any efforts we made were just not enough to make up for the lack of membership for prior years. I'm sure I speak for my fellow sisters in saying the closing of our chapter was a very sad experience and those who were only a part of our sisterhood for a semester or two of their collegiate experience felt robbed. I look back years later and am grateful for the wonderful sisters and life long friends I made that year, but I have to say honestly the way our situation was handled left a sour taste in my mouth. You only get to join one sorority and have one collegiate experience. |
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I am not an Alpha Xi, nor do I know about the whole UF issue, but it's sad to say this happens more often than you might think to all NPCs. I think that sister/new members probably would also have the same sentiments that you had about how it was handled, but there is no easy way to tell sisters of just a few months that the chapter is being closed because of the financial strain. |
sugarrush, I am very sorry for you and all of your sisters. This may have been many years ago, but I am sure it was just awful for you and those involved. You are right, "you only get to join one sorority and have one collegiate experience".
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And life goes on :)
Thanks for the understanding. I'm happy to say I have since joined an alumnae group with many great sisters.:D
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