I haven't... yet. I didn't know whether I could do that, since I'm not an officer. Plus, I don't want to get my chapter in trouble if there's a way to fix it without involving nationals.

It is not vain or superficial to care about appearance. It does however, show that you take pride in yourself and your organization. One thing that is dangerous, especially to struggling organizations, is the idea that nothing else matters, because we have great bonds of sisterhood. Thats very important, but I hear such organizations constantly rationalize their poor performance on campus with phrases like that, or that "they don't wanna be the cookie cutter sorority or fraternity." Sorry, but to be good on your campus, you'll most likely need to do what other sororities are doing. I mean, it makes sense, what fraternity wants to hang out w/ girls who don't take care of themselves? I know good sororities don't want socials with fraternities that act in that manner. This goes beyond greek life as well, into getting a job, and the way society treats you in general. Start taking care of yourselves, clean up the problems, and start being exclusive in rush. Don't take just take girls because they're attractive, but don't just take them because they're nice either. I'd say take a mixture of both, but it needs to be a mix within each girl which will make the difference. Having a few cute girls and a bunch of "good personality" girls arent gonna make the difference.

Now, I'm not being accusatory, but are you TELLING people that you're doing aerobics classes to help the "bigger" girls lose weight? 'Cause I'm telling you, if you are, than the people who "need" to go to the classes are sitting back at the dorms (or house) going, "Oh, my God! Can you BELIEVE sock puppet?! She's such a b***** for trying to make us lose weight." Don't make it obvious.

Can I tell you, I was in a sorority that wasn't the "stereotypical" sorority, and I have tons and tons of friends who were. I was on sorority council, went to bars and parties with girls from other sororities, etc... I know the frustration with not being able to have mixers with the fraternities that other sororities can, so I understand what you're saying about wanting to do the stereotypical "greek life" things. But there are ways to still do those things. And the fact of the matter is, although I still did those things, and was well liked in the greek community (that's right, I said it!), my chapter contains 100+ girls that I can turn to with my problems. My 4 closest friends are from my chapter and pledge class. That's why I still love my chapter and sorority, and never regret my decision.

I don't think she's stupid enough to say "you look fat" to anyone.

I love how people get all offended if somebody has anything to say about the appearance of sorority members. If sockpuppet4 registers and posts about how she wants to improve her chapter's GPA or involvement in community service, you'd all be up her butt. Why is this any different?

I hear you. No, I'm not telling them anything like that. (And I agree that people would think I'm bi#@cy if I did.) It started off with me saying something like, "I'm going to aerobics class, but I'm the only XYZ who goes. It'd be nice if I had a sister or two there with me."

Then, I got responses like, "I'd go, but I don't want people to see me looking like a fool."

So I said, "I have some tapes, we can have XYZ aerobics here! That would be sooo fun!"

I've already indicated the kind of turn-out that got.


And, for those of you who are sticking up for me and giving me helpful replies, thank you. You're the reason I came here for help.

Are there any other girls that feel the way you do and are willing to back you? If not quit, sometimes you just can't fix something thats broken. It's unfortunate that a handful of lazy people do your chapter that much harm. And with what Shinerbock said, if these girls are too lazy to comb their hair they are prbably not that motivated to better their sorority or even more themselves.

I know I am not the person to say anything about how your Sorority operations...

But I do know there are plenty destituted, homeless and abused women on the street that probably look far worse than your sorority sisters...

I agree with the posters that stated the participation with a philanthropy... There are several "Dress For Success" programs that are supposedly instituted in various cities for destituted, homeless and abused women, if your sorority would "co-sponsor" and spend some time with these women for a worthy cause, then maybe your members could realized what it means to have a better "representation" of themselves. I know Nordstrom's main philanthropic efforts on the West Coast is all about that...

I know these community groups strongly need the support. And the problem you are describing sounds like an internal one--like a low self-esteem issue. It has been my experience that one the first ways to improve self-esteem is to start with appearance--not new clothes, per se, but basic grooming issues. If you start with women who have actually been beaten and down-trodden to improve their self-image and self-esteem--how much more could it help you all? Just a thought.

I look forward to sockpuppet4 posting about GPAs and community service. It would be a breath of fresh air. We have enough people telling women how they should look so men will speak to them.

If the OP had said "I fear that my chapter is unhealthy and I want to help" then I would take the issue more seriously and think this is about more than fitting into a smaller pair of jeans so people could think they are cute and trendy. Even women who wear smaller sizes and wear makeup can have poor health and a poor self-concept that can impact a group's reputation.

Like it or not, appearances do matter in sorority life. Even if you have a great close-knit sisterhood, fun members and are involved on campus, when, as a chapter, you're not as attractive as the other sororities on campus, it's difficult to be a strong chapter. Fraternities don't want to have socials with you, women don't want to join and retention can become an issue when your new members find out that the chapter isn't the "stereotypical sorority experience" because you spend most of your time constantly trying to recruit new members, not having the socials that the other chapters do. And I say this as someone who joined a chapter that sounds a lot like your own. (And fwiw, I don't regret my decision at all because I had an amazing experience, but that doesn't mean there aren't times where it can be incredibly frustrating.)

We did make efforts to improve our image, both with our current members and with recruiting. I have to second the advice that the best way to turn the chapter around is not with the existing members, but one pledge class at a time. Informal recruitment is a great way to pick up girls, particularly since they'll have more time to get to know your members for who they are than they would during formal recruitment. But the key is then to retain those members. And then get their friends to join. The more "face card" members you have, the more you should use them (for lack of a better phrase) to present a polished image of your sorority.

As for your current members, no, if they don't want to lose weight, they're not going to. But sometimes it's just a matter of doing the little things. You need to get together with the other members in your chapter who do care about appearances and work with some of the others on a more one-on-one basis. Have a girl whose eyebrows are Brooke Shields-esque? Invite her along on to a spa day. The member with no fashion sense? Take her shopping. Compliment your sisters when they where make-up, letting them know that they look good. But you have to approach them as your sisters, not as projects needing improvement.

I don't know what the campus culture is like at your school, but I feel inclined to say that you're being a little naive and close-minded about the situation. I highly doubt that the only reason your sorority doesn't have a great reputation on your campus is beccause of appearances. There have to be other factors involved. It seems hard to believe that there would be an etire campus full of people that are willing to judge solely on looks. It seems to me like you either don't know what your other problems are, are unwilling to admit to them, or don't want to bother investigating them, so you're using appearance as an excuse. And yes, I'm sure it's part of your image problem, but I'd be really surprised if it was the whole thing. I'm sure your sisters are all aware of the image problem, which is probably why so many of them trie so hard to wear makeup and stuff like that during recruitment. Bring this up in a meeting. Before the next recruitment, see if you can find out from people (both non-Greek and Greek) what your reputation is and hear what people have to say about you. It will help looking at it from an outsider's perspective.

WOW this sums it up and I think that's what is sticking in some peoples' craws.

As many times as you say you love your sisters, it seems you could care less if they WANT to do this - or if it'll make their lives any better. You want them to improve their appearance so YOU can have what you consider a fulfilling sorority experience.

I had a sister who was continually helping some of our "style challenged" sisters out with their hair, makeup etc - and yes, I'm sure some of it was to try and give us a bit of a more "glam" image, but the point is she mainly wanted to do it to help THEM out, and she was able to do it in a good spirit without being mean or offensive.

Yep.

But I am treating them like sisters and not like a project. Because that's what they are.

:confused:

If there's a better way to handle it, please tell me. Should I just do nothing and let our chapter continue to flounder? I don't understand why I'm the bad guy for trying to improve things. I've always heard that if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Last night my graduate school organization hosted a Dress for Success program. It was my idea to include a session on makeup. AS many of our presenters said. "in life people are going to judge you by your appearance."
Now that said, there is a difference between being presentable and being "Barbie" doll. (and some times those beautiful woman have a head on their shoulders and they are amazing people). Like Valkie (sp) you really need to shower and comb your hair.
I think that if you try and look your best you'll feel good on the inside also My Chapter wasn't filled with your beautiful members we had all types of women. (I am not one of those naturally beautiful women either), but the sisters in my chapter did make an effort to look nice. We all have bad days (hair or what ever), so don't wear letters those days. And quite frankly not everyone needs to wear alot of make up... some people look great with eyeliner, mascara and lip gloss.
As far as improving relations within the greek community, you need to take the lead. My sorority (and most on my campus) always sent the other chapters a gift (usually some baked good). On year we baked brownies for the fraternities during midterms. This was a double event... we had fun cooking together and some of the sisters interacted with the fraternities as the brownies were delievered.
I can't blame you for wanted to particpate in all that greeklife has to offer. Socials are fun and going out is fun to but it isn't all that greek life has to offer. In KD we have a pace program that was recently introduced, that basically deals with the overall view of what a sisterhood should offer. When I was in school we had a pyrimad where we did a self assetment, and we picked areas that we needed to work on during the year. It is nice to have goals, and something to motivate you. I am sure that most of the sororities have some sort of national program simular to Kappa Delta's.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve your chapter, I think we all want our organizations to the best they can be- but that should be a total goal based on more than appearance. Being the best should ialso nclude your scholastic motivation, your personal goals, and increasing your awareness of the world.

That may be the case IRL, but it isn't coming across on here very well.

We can only go based on our perception of your words in this thread. I think you've gotten all of the opinions and advice that you possibly can, at this point.

HE can help
 

Contact Algore; he invented the internet

not sockpuppet4, but... well here's publicity
 

Even if your girls have makeovers or whatever, the looks reputation will probably take a while to improve. It is a start though.

Keep in mind - some of the fraternities won't mind mixing with a sorority that may not have the best looks reputation, but they will mind if y'all aren't fun and involved.

Additional things you should concentrate on:

PUBLICITY -

a) as an earlier poster said, always look sharp in your letters. Talk about it in meeting that letters are always for looking your best. Plan one day a week for letters and one day for pin attire.

b) website - update it. Add some fun pics; that's what everyone looks for anyway. Perhaps add a (moderated) guestbook, so your friends can say hey. If you want help, send me a PM.

c) put ads in the campus newspaper - perhaps a sister of the week-type thing. Be sure to send them announcements for things like your philanthropies (and a week later send a thank-you announcement to the campus for supporting your philanthropy), new pledge classes, etc. Maybe you can do other ones too like "Good luck on midterms! Love, XYZ". It depends on your campus and the newspaper.

d) fun t-shirts. Screenprints do a great job of getting you noticed because people see the slogan over and over.

e) homecoming, Greek Week, etc. - show up in full spirit! Impress upon your sisters how important (and fun) this type of thing is... don't skip out, don't do it half-assed, and don't do it with a bad attitude.

f) do something fun for a philanthropy. Make sure at least some of your projects VISIBLY are on-campus! This gets you involved on campus, and it lets other Greeks, potentials, and folks in general get to know y'all.

g) invite a fraternity to join you for a philanthropy project and then have a mixer afterwards! I bet they would be excited to do something like that.

h) what other publicity techniques do you have on your campus? Be sure to take advantage of them. We have a (locked under glass) bulletin board with photos, announcements, etc. of our sorority. We also spray paint The Rock (a boulder.. campus tradition) with our letters. What do you have on your campus?



Remember that rush is 365 days a year. You are always making an impression on potential sisters.

during formal recruitment my junior year, a girl came through who everyone was dying to pledge. she was the whole package-looks, brains, personality-you get the picture. she had a full compliment of invitations for the whole of recruitment. she kept going back to one of the least strong chapters, and the whole campus was mystified. she ended up pledging there.we (and all the other chapters) were so disappointed that she did not choose one of us. turns out her mom and grandmother are members of the same sorority, and she really liked the girls. they were a really nice bunch of girls. they also were not very attractive and most of the time looked a little on the sloppy side. many of them were overweight.

she became a little sister to the top fraternity on campus. when they found out where she had pledged, they ridiculed her so badly that she quit the little sister org(the right choice, obviously!). she ended up being president of her chapter the next year. even though she was a sophomore, i think that the chapter realized what an asset they had and wanted her to have as much face time as possible. gradually, over the years,(i would guess 10 or 15, having recently seen yearbooks from 80's and 90's.) the chapter turned itself around and is now competitive on campus.

i really believe that the turnaround began with this one person. the chapter must have realized that to survive they needed to change some things. she undoubtedly looked past the superficial and saw a sisterhood she wanted to be a part of and more importantly, that she could help improve. i also believe that the chapter realized that they were going to have to change some things and improve themselves or they might run the risk of having their chapter closed(we lost 4 chapters during that time at fsu).

have you thought about running for an executive council office? you can influence the most people from a position of authority. what about running for the recruitment office in your chapter?as someone else said , recruitment is 365 days a year. you need to help the chapter to understand this. that includes attitude, grades, activities AND appearance. as recruitment vp or chairperson or whatever your sorority calls it, you might be able to inact some changes rather quickly. just realize that drastic changes probably won't happen easily, and the reputation of the sorority will not improve dramatically during your time at your college. i commend you for not giving up and for caring enough to try to improve your chapter. good luck!!

A great testament for legacy loyalty!

This is a really good post.

I have goosebumps. This is a great example of the power of ONE. Ok, so run for recruitment chair and play U2's One at your preference party and make sure the women going through know that they can make a difference!

there is always hope

She hasn't said one single thing that says that she's ashamed of their size! She has actually said on several occasions that it doesn't matter. What matters is that they are NOT representing themselves well on campus. A size 2 girl can look just as nasty and dirty as a size 20. Her problem here is reputation and presentation!

Don't let them get to you SP3!

Doesnt Hope Ring Eternal?:cool:

Coming from someone who is not skinny...

There is a difference between having a variety of body shapes within your chapter, and being known as the "fat girl" sorority. She is asking for solutions to help her chapter's reputation on campus. Yes, I know that reputation isn't everything and you can still have a wonderful sisterhood, etc.etc. But if I joined a sorority expecting to meet new people (including fraternity guys) and then I discovered that none of the fraternities on campus will mix with my sorority because of our reputation, I would be looking for ways to fix that - because it's part of Greek life and I wouldn't want to miss out. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that.

Re: is there any hope?
 

Wow. As a chapter advisor (who is an admitted lurker here) I am touched and amused by the various responses to your original questions. I've worked with chapters at both ends of the spectrum and will try to answer your original questions.

First, if you are in an NPC sorority, the bid you matched is a result of a mutual selection process. Not to be mean, but your sister's concerns about you choosing your second choice reflects a misunderstanding of how bid matching is conducted (and I've participated in bid matching as an advisor, so I can say that I do know how it works, but I am by no means an NPC expert). However, if she means that she's upset that you actually signed your bid card, then that's different.

Also, the school or university will not pull recognition for your orginazation because of low numbers. At least not in my experience. Your national orginization, sooner or later, might realize that their investment in the campus is not worth the expense. If you are getting constant visits from chapter consultants, or national officers, I'd be worried.

Second, I know from painfully personal experience that you can NOT succeed at helping your chapter if you are the only one to want the change. You haven't mentioned if you have a group of women in the chapter who feel the same way, a "coalition of the willing" if you will. If you do, get together with them and brainstorm on ways you can all run for office to take over chapter operations. Then you can implement change from the inside out, which is key.

Third, your reluctance to involve your chapter advisors (if any) or your national organization is understandable, but unfortunate. It is imperative, and I can not express this enough, that you DO involve them. These women most likely already know that there is a "problem" in the chapter and they would love to have a clue that some of the members are looking for change.

I guarantee you that if your chapter is having membership/recruitment problems, which is what it sounds like, that they ALREADY know and are concerned for the health of the chapter. As an advisor I would, hands down, rather deal with a risk management problem than a membership problem. The former can be dealt with through education and policy enforcement, but the latter is a touchy situation that deals with core self-esteem issues not easily resolved.

Forth, change has to come from the general membership. To repeat, you can not be the only member wanting to improve things. No matter what you do, if 99% of them don't want to turn things around, it's not going to happen.

Last, as a way to improve general appearance, and by this I don't mean being Barbies and fake, try going in the back door. Invite speakers on how to present yourself at job interviews or in interviews for internships/scholarships/etc. The seniors in your chapter will need it soon. Like it or not, the collegiate experience - the sorority experience - is a perfect training ground for your future careers. People that show up at job interviews looking like slobs will not be hired, or if they are, they will be offered less money than someone who shows up in a nice suit, combed hair and a smile. It's a fact of life and if you don't think so, just give it a try at your next interview.

Other suggestions here on volunteering with the less fortunate are valid and will give everyone a healthy dose of reality and good resume building material. Ideas about publicity are great, too. As are trying to build personal relationships with a few fraternities and then having philanthropy/social events with them. Take the men cookies, invite them for a home cooked meal. It sounds basic and rather 1950s, but men are suckers for food.

Again, as a chapter advisor and for the love of all that's holy, talk to your advisors/national officers about how they can bring in resources to help you. They are not the enemy and you won't get in trouble for trying to ensure your chapter's success.

This is a hard battle that will not be won in the next year. You can only hope to build a legacy for future classes to carry on. Several years from now the baby steps you have taken will be evident, but when you are in the fight it is easy to be discouraged. If you care as you say you do, don't give up, but do get help. Good luck in this.

^^^ Cheers to that.

Applause for SLB!!! Thanks for coming out of the lurking shadows with sound advice!!!

Denise

Yes, get your chapter advisor and the national headquarters to help you get your sisters to lose weight and start wearing makeup. Don't forget the cookies for the frat boys. Sorority life is a blast.

And once again, chapter advisors vary WIDELY in the degree of effectiveness, involvement with the chapter and knowledge of sorority life. Chapter advisors are not always alums of the sorority, or of ANY sorority for that matter. Especially if the school requires that they be faculty or affiliated with the school in some way.

We had some really nice women as our chapter advisors, but frankly, there were a lot of things sorority-wise they didn't know crap about. But we didn't really have a choice. We were stuck with someone school affiliated - and even if we hadn't been, the school really wasn't in an area where a lot of alums were around.

I know this is the exact opposite of what many chapters have, but I just want to say that "ask the advisor" isn't always an option that will do anything for you.

Yeah, mine was a school like that (the faculty advisor thing)... ours was a DG, but I've seen women advisors of fraternities... always perplexed me, but that's for another thread.

I agree with what you say... Advisors are KEY to the success of a chapter (start sucking up NOW ladies!), but sometimes in unfortunate circumstances the women do not feel they have advisors that they can share their concerns with. And unfortunately, that sometimes ends up in miscommunication between the chapter and your nationals/HQ/EO/etc... Very unfortunate, but if you have any chance of using your advisors to help you through, realize that you do need them.

Women advisors for fraternities? I'd rather make sweet love to Cindy Sheehan.

-Rudey

I think she meant advisor for the school's greek system. Our chapter advisor is always an alum from our chapter but the schools greek advisor is pretty much whoever the dean of students decides to hire.

No, she meant advisor for a chapter.

We've had several chapters with male advisors.

We had a male advisor - he was a Kappa Alpha Order. He was awesome.

Dude advisors are OK. Fems are not.

-Rudey

"Fems" is often viewed as a deragatory slang term that isn't synonymous with females or women.

How about FemBots? You wouldn't want a FemBot for an adviser. There would be marabou and bullets everywhere.