I think we need to be realistic. In some schools, having a sister who is pregnant and/or has a child would be ok and others it would not. As for the 28 yr old sister, I don't see a problem with that. Some women don't want to be married with kids, some never get married, or marry late. Mentality has alot to do with it. I have friends that are in different stages of their lives and friends of all ages. A daughter of one my mom's friends was active in Chi Omega in her sophomore year. This is the same year as her 10 year high school reunion. She apparently got along great with her sisters. I guess what I am trying to say is different strokes for different folks.

Bravo!!! You turned out very well, did you not? And you mom is better off as well.


And for the people who disagree with me... What you are doing is imposing your idea of motherhood onto someone else. The truth is we have no clue how committed a woman with a child would be to a group, since it would change from person to person. It is true, that some women with children would never work out, but I am sure there are mothers who would love to join a social sorority and would be great members, AND great mothers, and great students. I think saying "no way" off the bat to a mom or a woman who is older is the same thing as saying "no way" to someone who comes from a different ethnic background, or to someone who needs to work to pay for college. People decide to do things differently everyday, it's not our job to say what is right for whom, or if that makes them a good or bad mom.

Also, I am totally against the 80's backlash "you can't have it all..." blah blah blah. There are many things I want to do in my life, and while some compromise may be in store, I think it's shameful for us to be telling women everywhere they need to be putting certian things first. Of course, most will say that this movement only recognizes the need for careful choices, but I disagree. I disagree only because I hear everyone preaching about how they need to take care of their family. "I won't let someone else raise my children" or "You aren't a good mother if...." Honestly, I think there are MANY ways to be a good mother, and resent this popular movement because it seems to be a step backwards in the womens equality movement, which had its first generation of success with our mothers (not too long ago!). I would rather see women lobbying for greater practices of part time work, or other ways to keep careers going while fostering the other important things in life. The reason I would like to see such changes is the grim fact that most women do not stay married, and many must support themselves after they have taken time off to have children.

Well spoken, XOMichelle. :)

I'm not sure where this over-protective "I must be the only person watching over my children" phase has come from. If a mother chooses to be that way, that's fine. I also realize that every child is different, and some do need more supervision than others-- but if a chapter is willing to put through a mother with child (or children), I can't see how it would be a detriment. If anything, that particular sister becomes a mentor to the others who haven't experienced reality-beyond-college yet.

~ Mel.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with adpiucf. I wouldn't think a pregnant women or woman with a newborn baby would be interested or have a priority of joining a sorority. Maybe it's just me, but if this is what she wants to do as a pregnant women, she may need to rethink some things.

As others have said, if we had a woman going through recruitment that was pregnant, it would be the talk of rush, bet on it. And the chapter she got a bid from, they'd be part of the trash talk.

I guess my view is that the world isn't all love and flowers, and sorority life isn't for everone...

Like everything else in life I'd say "it depends". It depends on the house, the lady, the circumstances and the chapter. What there definitely needs to be is honest open communication. If there is a requirement for new members to live in the house-bring that up. Say, we really like you but we can't have kids here and that's one of our rules. If you have a prblem keeping girls in the house, then maybe it is not a good time for her. Maybe she could COB later or something.

If there is not a house to worry about then there are different circumstances. Does she live close by or is she commuting an hour one way to school? Does she understand the meetinf schedules and fine schedule up front. I know we hate to divulge all our "dirty" rules like fines to a PNM, but here, once again, if you really really like her, maybe you could talk to her. Once she realizes what a huge committment financially etc it is she may whithdraw herself.

Now, if you have a smallish chapter, with no house and rush isn't super competitive and a little more laid back, she has a nice support system at home, you like her/she likes you-she might work out just fine.

Basically though, don't totally dissmiss her. People join Junior League, PEO and are super involved in other demanding things in life and they have kids and it works out totally fine. Why a sorority should be any different is unclear to me. I mean most of your alumnae and super duper committed national officers aren't that old and they have kids.

I went to a southern college and we had a PNM go through who had a little girl and let me tell you, the sorority girls were lining up to hold her/play with her! She ended up getting into one of the top houses and she was s good member. Sure she didn't go to every fraternity party and sometimes didn't make the socials, but she came to all the important stuff. And she didn't always bring her child, sometimes yes, but only when it was appropriate like maybe a field-day philanthropy type event or basketball game.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bama_Alumna
[B]If a sorority here had a pregnant pledge or active, it would be the talk of the campus. I knew a couple of people who got pregnant when they were in college, but they dropped out of their sororities when they found out.



There was a girl in my chapter before i cam in that got pregnant. She quit, though she couldve gone inactive. I know of girls in other chapters that have been in the same situation that have gone inactive.

Quite honestly, I would not have wanted a pregnant girl in my house when I was in college.

We had a girl who got pregnant and she went alum., which I think was appropriate. It's not that we didn't want her to be a sister anymore - it was her choice - and of course she will always be a sister, but some circumstances make it rather difficult to be an ACTIVE sister.

I am not saying that no mothers could, but I would say that most young mothers would struggle to balance the responsibilities of motherhood and sorority life.

I know everyone will probably get mad about this, but on my campus, it wouldn't look very good for the chapter either. But then again, I went to a school where the sororities are on the traditional side - not to the Southern degree, but the girls are always 18 to 23 or so, live in dorms/sorority houses/apartments, don't commute, etc... It just would have stood out, I guess. I am sure things are different at some schools, or maybe some chapters would be willing to take a stand to try to make things different at theirs.

First of all i want to say that you are not suppose to discriminate against PNM, & if you are not giving someone a bid because they are pregnant or have a child THEN U ARE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THAT PERSON.

I see NO problem with a member having a child or being pregnant. My big had a little boy before she came thru, who stayed with her mom & she went home (or he came here) almost every weekend. the sisters all loved him, we spoiled him like crazy, let him come to events, and done everything w/ him.
Last year my best friend came thru she had a young son & was pregnant w/ her little girl. everyone thought it was great!!!!!! Again, the sisters just adored him. helped baby-sit & was there for her during some hard times. Now dont get me wrong it was a little different because we were local @ the time. my big is now alum. & the friend did not go thru nationally because she took the qtr. off to have her baby when we were going national. she still wants to go thru & at the point she is not in school but she has been thinking about coming in as an alumni int. But the sisters still invite her to things & tell her to bring the kids by etc.

Okay, I suppose you are right. But there are only so many spots we can fill, and there are hundreds of PNMs. We have to cut somebody, and if the PNM is pregnant, she is going to be cut. Plain and simple. First, she is more likely to drop out. Second, she is less likely to be financially able to be a member. Third, she will probably not have the time to be as involved as a woman without children.

And yes, people do talk... it is generally not looked upon favorably to have a child out of wedlock. That is true no matter what part of the country you're in. I suppose one might be judged less harshly in some areas than others, and I'm not saying that it is good or bad...to each her own! But a sorority at a conservative and competitive school like Alabama or Ole Miss is not going to have a pregnant undergrad walking around in their letters! And even if she's married, the same reasons apply--time and money.

We have to cut somebody for some reason. You can't say that everyone we cut is because we are "discriminating" against that person. I suppose that when we cut someone we are also discriminating against people with bad fashion sense, people whose parents didn't teach them good manners, people who can't afford dues, etc. With 1000 PNMs and 55 spots to fill, someone is going to be cut no matter what.

Sororities are discriminatory by nature. We pick and choose who we want as members of our organization. I see having a child (or being pregnant) as a very large time commitment, like having a full-time job or being a triple major. While none of those things are dealbreakers for me, I would think twice about extending a bid to someone with ANY of those qualifications. Being an active, visible, participating member of the chapter is a requirement for being a member in Phi Mu. If I felt like she would not be able to adequately devote time to my sorority, I would probably question her motivations for wanting to become a member. I get stressed with time, as do most of my sisters... I simply cannot imagine if there was a CHILD thrown in the mix.

I agree that discriminating against people is wrong...

HOWEVER, when PNMs are cut during Membership Selection there are usually reasons. If a PNM said she hated going to class and she gets crazy drunk all the time, she would probably be cut...does this mean we are discriminating against people who get drunk all the time and skip class? Sororities discriminate against older students ALL THE TIME...look up posts on this board. Sororities want members who will match their values and ideals, furthermore, they want members who can meet all sorority obligations...I personally, do not think that a pregnant PNM would be able to meet all obligations. She would have a lot going on in here life.

ETA: Oh Darn, someone beat me to the point I was making...ah, well, great minds think alike.

I guess maybe I don't get it. And i'm from a liberal northern school!
What priorities should be:

#1- THE CHILD. Children ain't easy, they require a lot of time, money, love, and nuturing.
#2- School. That's what you're there for.
#3- whatever else, i.e. sororities, clubs, etc

Sororities require A LOT of time (and money), no matter what area of the country you're in. Children require a lot of time (from their parents, NOT babysitters). School requires a lot of time.

Maybe it's just me, but as a parent I'm going to want to spend a lot of time with my kid.

I don't understand why someone would WANT to be involved in ANY ACTIVITY that would require them to spend so much time away from their child.

Yes, it's great to make friendships and stuff. But many of our parents weren't in sororities (or didn't even go to college!), and they have friends- they make them through playgroups, etc.

Guess i'm just from the school of though that children should be the number one priority in your life if you choose to have them...

I think you did a great job of summing up this entire thread in a nutshell, texasgrl!

Ditto my collar-popping homegirl. :D

If you have a chapter at a commuter school with a student body that is not the normal 18-22 bunch, you're going to have all kinds of things that don't go on at "traditional" schools. This is one of them. If you are at a very traditional school where the tongues wag if you pledge a junior, I don't think the mom-to-be is going to be a sister there.

However, I don't think it's up to any of us to judge and say "a pregnant/married/mother should not do this or that." Everyone conducts their life differently. Some single traditional students can't handle being a sorority member and nothing else - some women can juggle 2 kids, a house, a hubby, school and extracurriculars with no trouble.

May I also add this is why we have a pledging period. If ANY woman finds she's bitten off more than she can chew, she can drop out of pledging.

Agreed-- one of the reasons I'm pursuing membership in your particular sorority is its acceptance of women from all walks of life, all finance structures, all body types, etc. :)

~ Mel.

Because you don't stop being a person when you have a child, and if you don't spend SOME time away from your kid, you will go nuts.
Think of it as less of a requirement, and more of a making friends and having fun activity. Besides, what is "appropriate" to your grandmother's friends and what will make you happy can be very different things. Think outside the box, folks!!

Look, I went to Stanford, which although it is not in the south, has a very traditional student body by virtue of being one of the nation's top colleges. Only a handful of people are older than 23 when they are getting their bachelors (off the top of my head, I only knew 5 students that were over 23 when in school), EVERYONE lives on campus, and all the sororities and fraternities that have houses must fill their houses to keep renting them from the University. Not only that, school is hard, and virtually everyone goes into it with the same work-a-holic attitude. This isn't the unconventioal school profile where most of you think the parent or mother would fit in. And, with all of this going against my boyfriend, he joined one of the best houses on campus. In fact, other frats were upset that he joined where he did, since they wanted him too.

So before you start putting your ideas of motherhood or fatherhood in someone else's life, think about this story, and Glitterkitty's story, and keep an open mind about people who make non-traditonal choices with their lives.

Traditions
 

I have to agree that pregnant women and women with children need to place their priorities elsewhere then in a sorority. We have had women who became pregnant during their time and went alum instead of becoming the talk of the town. Rumers are spread, no matter where you go to school and no, people do not have any better things to do then ground an opposing sorority or fraternity into the ground. There are other clubs and organizations for older women who want the sisterhood a sorority can give to them. Most undergraduates have no idea what these women are going through with motherhood and if I was a mother I would prefer to find friends that were on my level.

a sorority is a lot like a jealous lover. it wants you all the time. when you only fulfill the minimum you feel out of the loop. if you work all the time, have a kid, etc., you're not going to be able to put into it as much as you like.

it's a mutual selection process. it is about image. yes, it's superficial. deal with it. pnm's cut houses because they don't like the look of certain women, the colors, etc.

the ages range from 16-23. most of those girls are single, and with ranging degrees of immaturity. a mother needs to exercise good judgement and what works for her single, 19 year old sister isn't necessarily her best choice. and sororities offer a lot of choices and opportunities. how would a mother identify with that level of maturity? the same goes for a 27 year old joining. she should be associating with people her own age, who are on the same level. same goes for married people. your priorities are just different.

it may work for some campuses and chapters, and that's great. no one is trying to change your campus.

So there is a lot to recruitment that has to do with image, and that I will agree to. But deep down I still believe that my sorority is about sisterhood and living up to our ideals of being "democratic rather than exlcusive, and loveable rather than popular." To hear y'all go off on how a 20 year old and a 27 year old with children (or the other way around), shouldn't be friends, or should not be interested in fufilling those goals of sisterhood and ideals, well, THAT'S what looks bad to me. Living your life by the rule of the rumor is no way to live. If you are in a place where a pregnant woman would "ruin" your chapter, you should be asking yourself why this is, not how do we get rid of people who din't fit our notion of "appropriate". Also, people SHOULD have lives outside their sorority... if they don't our organizations are not doing their job.

shoot, I'd love to know where you go to school, where people don't judge other people, and the reputation of the sororities means nothing to potential new members.

and a 27 year old who spends all her time hanging out with 19 year olds is a problem.

What you seem to be not realizing is "reputation" is different things different places.

And I'd like to know where YOU go to school where 16 year olds are pledging sororities.

I absolutely agree!

Perhaps it can be simplified as a young mother simply feeling the need to belong.

I mean, let's face it-- those who are non-Greek, yet also have positive opinions of Greek life usually see fraternities and sororities as tight-knit family groups on campus (our internal frustrations aside at times). I was intimidated as heck by the NPC sororities on my campus, yet wanted to be part of one. I decided instead to join TBS as a freshman because the size of the NPC's was a bit too large for my extremely shy, backwater Montana girl self to handle in the middle of Boston. :)

Being 29 and seeing several of my friends going through marriage and first children in the past couple years... it's amazing how many women, despite having a loving husband and young child... and even close friends, just feel like they're ALONE. Perhaps the desire to connect to a sorority is just a basic need to feel like she is part of a sisterhood of women and to reconnect with life outside of the needs of her child.

And really... there isn't a lot out there for women that are older than 22/23 but younger than mid-30ies as far as organizations to connect to... I have been looking. Part of it is simply our generation, I think-- not as many women want to join post-graduate groups. But for those who do, the options are a bit limiting.

~ Mel.

There are TONS of volunteer organizations out there. What about Junior League? Or working with groups like Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Girl Scouts, the Humane Society? You could join a book club or volunteer for the local library. There are church groups for all ages in all denominations.

If you are still in school, there are over 200 student organizations on the UA campus and less than 50 of those are social GLOs. I think most schools are like this in that they have a wide variety of student organizations. There are plenty of good organizations to get involved in if you are willing to put forth the effort and seek them out.

I cannot join any groups that relate to a church or Scouts, unfortunately, due to my faith. I know there is fantastic community there for those it applies to. :) And no, I'm not still in school-- I graduated 7 years ago.

There is no Junior League in my area, unfortunately... or I would probably join it (my mother was part of the local one in the town I grew up in... but that's over 2,000 miles away). I have offered to volunteer at the local library, but they are not looking for volunteers right now. I'm on their "call list". I do belong to a book club via the library, but it's a once-per-month for an hour only, and all of the members are at least ten years older than me-- which I don't mind, but I don't feel like I can connect to any of them beyond my love of reading.

Our Humane Society only accepts volunteers that are available between XYZ hours-- all of which are ones that I am at a full-time job.

Opportunities are difficult to find, depending on where you are.

~ Mel.

I went to Stanford, like I said in one of my previous posts in this thread.

I mean, it's not like these things couldn't be debated. I'm sure it would be a hot issue if a girl did come though rush who had a child. Of course, I would be the first to say to give her a chance. The reputations of sororities matter, but not in the same way that has been described on this board (having a girl who got married or was preganant wouldn't "destroy" a chapter, although I am sure everyone would know. The chapter would likely use it as a way to describe their positive diversity.). However, I've had the opportunity to be close to a few people with non-traditonal lives, and have found out that my narrow notion on how to live life is, well, narrow.

In my experience, I've seen the youngest member of my sorority (just turned 17... that's skipping grades for you) get along with my 32 year old boyfriend. I'm 23, and had a wonderful time with one of my boyfriend's best friends (45) and his two children (10 and 17), along with his childhood friends (30 as well). Not to say that it wasn't awkward to meet my boyfriend's friend and realize he had a daughter 3 years younger than me, but with a little effort, I realized I could be friends with people of varying ages. From hanging out my boyfriend and his friends, with sisters who graduated in 1999, to being friends with people who were born 6 years after I was. It doesn't work with everybody (some people are way to hung up about stuff like this), but it's not unusual, or impossible.

I'm both a mom and a female in her 30's and I see nothing wrong with hanging out with my sisters that are 18-25. Let me tell you my sisters are more mature than some 30-40yr olds that I know. I have much respect for the women in my chapter and I know that they have much respect for me not only as a sister but also as a person and a mom.

I'm sure that my chapter does get gossiped about, (especially since I'm the girl that had her baby in her dorm room alone and didn't know she was pregnant.....long story pm me if you want to know), but we either don't hear it or we just don't pay it any mind and go on with our lives and business. Why let someone else pull your org down with gossip and if you have that much time to spend worrying about what others say about your org then you my dear have way to much time on your hands.

PEOPLE WIIL TALK NO MATTER WHAT TYPE OF PEOPLE YOUHAVE IN YOUR ORG, GO ON WITH LIFE AND LET THEM TALK.

Come on guys! Gossip is all that matters. I always make all of my life decisions based on whether other people will talk about me. ;)

mommag2, you're right. people are going to talk, and if it doesn't matter to the chapter, or the person, then who cares? could defintely take a lesson from XOMichelle's 17 year old sister.

personally, though I still would raise a fuss if it was about a pnm, and I would question her time committment and intentions.

Well, I forgot to mention that this 27 year old was single, no kids, and spent the first years after high school working. She said she was burned out and wanted to wait before college. Since she she was still single and no kids, she had LOTS of time to dedicate to the sorority. I spoke to her yesterday and she told me that there were 3 other girls who were past the "ideal" sorority years besides her. These three were younger than her and the campus GLOs were very competitive.

She says she was nothing but honest with all sororities during recruitment and still managed to get bids to 2 or 3 "top" houses. It probably helped that she looked very young, according to her sisters, closer to 19 than 26.

I know this lady has friends that range in age from 20 to 75, male/female. All her friends have nothing but good things to say about her. In my opnion, anyone who can get along with that wide age range of people should have NO PROBLEM getting along in a sorority.

BTW, she is now married and in Junior League. :)

I also don't see the problem with the age difference....I was 17 when I pledged and there was a 27 year old in my pledge class. It didn't make a difference to us. And it shouldn't.

My biological sister is 7 years older than I am and we hang out together and have a great time. There's nothing wrong with that. Why should it be any different for people who aren't biologically related?

When I was a collegian, I used to attend some of the alumnae get togethers with women who were in their late 20s and early 30s and could actually carry on conversations with them easier than with some of the other collegiate members who were closer to my age.

There just comes a point when age is no longer a factor in friendships. Usually that tends to be sometime around high school graduation when you realize that you are capable of having friends who you once thought were "old." I still hang out with the collegiate members, some of whom are 5 years younger than I am, and I hang out with the alumnae, some of whom are at least 10 years older than me. I also hang out with my sister and her friends and even my mother (Heaven forbid) and her friends. Age shouldn't make a difference and there is nothing wrong with someone who chooses to associate with people who are more than three years their junior or senior.

Thank You for your kind compliment KillarneyRose!! :D

My 2 cents
 

I have read both of the threads about being married or being pregnant as a PNM; and as someone who studies higher education, I want to point out a few concepts about higher education and GLO's....

First, higher education student populations are changing. Numerous studies have indicated that student populations are aging and that more and more "non-traditional" students are attending higher education. These "non-traditional" students include those students who are not only of non-traditional age but also the students who carry non-traditional responsibilities such as family and work responsibilities.

Second, higher education institutions vary in their campus climate and culture. Because of their campus climate and culture, some schools will perhaps not have as substantial increases in non-traditional students, namely highly selective 4-year liberal arts or some Research 1 universities, as others, such as community colleges and comprehensive universities.

Third, higher education itself is changing. Advances in technology coupled with the efforts to make classrooms and universities more student-centered are changing the contructs of higher education. Numerous students are accessing higher education in different ways and through different media than the traditional residential 8am-2pm campus.

Fourth, as is continually mentioned on these boards, commitment to a GLO is a lifetime commitment. The other side of that commitment coin is the GLO's responsibility to its members. That responsibility entails supporting men and women throughout their lifecycle, including growing older, getting married/having a partner (if he/she so chooses), and having children (if he/she so chooses).

Taken together, higher education students are changing, and higher education students are changing on many campuses. If GLO's wish to survive on some campuses in these times of academic/student diversification, then perhaps they had also better consider the needs of the various PNMs who will be coming to the institutions.

My academic 2 cents....
Silver

Re: My 2 cents
 

Wow, well-said! I cut some of your statements down, if that's okay. :)

We go on and on about how membership is a lifetime commitment, and NPC/NIC groups often receive the brunt of questioning about how we tend to be a "college thing." Well, when we're not accepting of the wide range of what someone may experience in a lifetime, we're making light of that commitment. Not everyone's life trajectory goes from Daddy's house to sorority house to husband's house--we must be more accepting of "non-traditional" life paths, because they're becoming the rule, not the exception.

----------------------------
If a married woman wants to join, she has probably already weighed the pros and cons and is making the best decision for HER. You don't have the right to tell her what she should and shouldn't do, and you don't have any right to tell her what her priorities are or should be when you aren't her.

Did any of you think that maybe, just maybe ANY non-traditional member would have the seriousness of purpose to contribute to your sisterhood a little bit more than organizing the mixer with Kappa? Did anyone stop to think that she probably knows how to juggle her responsibilities and priorities a little bit better than a 19 year old? Did anyone stop to think that, at an age a little bit older than your average collegian, GPA might be a top priority and wouldn't consider joining if her grades and workload could handle it? No, probably not--because so many of the young women who posted were more concerned about how it "looks" to have a married or pregnant prospective member, and what other people would "think."

Women have been juggling marriage and academia for decades now, with a considerable degree of success.

Re: Re: My 2 cents
 

Thank You for your post.

You are so right when you say that most of the post have been about how it "would look" and "what would be said about XYZ" if theyhad a married/mommy/pregnant PNM/NM/Sister in their group. It is so true when you say that most older/married/mommy's would be more concerned about gpa's then a party with MNO, I know I am.

Having a Non-Traditional student in a sorority can be such a positive experience. She would bring a different perspective and ideas to the group concerning various issues.

Another thing Non-Traditional students are growing in numbers and some wonderful ladies out there right now are going back to school and some will be rushing in the Fall. So please keep an open mind and don't just cut someone because they are older or have a child, or are married. If you do you just might be MISSING OUT on ONE HECK OF A SISTER.

I'm GLAD mine didn't.

Frankly, and I know I'll get flamed for this... I think that if she got pregnant in the first place, she probably wasn't being responsible with birth control. But I think that you and I are on two different wavelengths in this thread anyway. When I see the phrase "a pregnant PNM" I envision a 17 or 18-year-old freshman, because those are the PNMs at my school. Yes, there are the occasional sophomores or juniors, but by and large we are talking about girls straight out of high school. And if one of them is pregnant, rush should be the last thing on her mind, and it certainly shouldn't be a top priority.

I would be highly suspect of any pregnant or even married woman who wanted to join the collegians for Tuesday and Thursday night swaps, weekend parties, study hall hours, weekly chapter meetings, etc. I would also be suspicious of a twenty-five year old who wanted to join a sorority here, because there is such an enormous age difference. I am under 30, and I can't imagine wanting to go to a fraternity house with a bunch of 18 year olds, even if they are my sorority sisters!

I also think that any of you can do anything anyway you want to on your particular campus. At my campus, it ain't happening. Maybe in the future, but right now? No. The houses at Bama aren't "recruiting" members into our sororities, the PNMs are coming to them. This year, my house will have far more legacies going through rush than they could possibly accept. These girls' mothers, sisters, & grandmothers, who are alumnae...most even alumnae from my chapter, are breathing down our actives' necks. If my chapter gave Suzy Pregnancy a bid instead of one of them, they would have a lot of explaining to do. It would greatly hurt the chapter's relationship with alums, and would more than likely hurt numbers in future recruitments. Which would hurt the alum relations even more...which would lead to a decrease in funds... it's a downward spiral. So, there is a lot more here than meets the eye. And you can say all you want that "that's not the way it should be." That is the reality our chapters are dealing with. And I think it will continue to be like this as long as there are hundreds of women competing for a bid.

Wellllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!
My thoughts exactly.

Well, let's just say sometimes I get down on my knees and thank G-d that the world is larger than the University of Alabama's NPC Greek System. :)

When I said that, I was referring more to married and older students.