I'm sure the AZD TKE house could use some work but it seems to me it would be better for them to rent out the house for the next few years while their house is being built. But then again that's what I've thought since they came to campus...oh well...
And no the house isn't close to the murder sites as far as I know. Some of them happened in the Gatorwood apts on Archer.
If you take the time to look at the changing chapters of UF it's actually fairly interesting to see why groups have come and gone and why some have failed and succeded.

Somehow I think in 3 years when my sister is making her decisions about college I think I will be pushing for FSU and NOT UF after all this....geez...

edited to add: the above meant w/ much sarcasm as it will of course be my sisters choice where she goes to school...she and I joke about her going to college and stuff so I know what I meant but I just wanted to clarify...

FL greek systems
 

I know the FSU comment was a joke- but they're greek system is FAR WORSE than UF's. While I was at UF 3 chapters at FSU closed.
From what I know of all of the Greek systems in FL, UCF is probably the best and most supportive of all of them.
My sis went to UCF and yes her chapter had the same problems with other chapters spying, crap-talking, and BS that goes along with any Greek system. But she also told me about how when 1 chapter was in need of help so that their nationals wouldn't close them, all of the other chapters rallied around them.
Never in a miilion years would any chapter at UF do that for another.
Sad, but true.
UF Greeks are worried about their chapter and their chapter only.
C

It does seem to be that we only care about our own chapters here, and we pretty much have to be. The entire system has been based on it for years and it's not going to change overnight. With the way chapters are treated by the Univ. and their nationals, it's supprising that there is as much "Greek Unity" as there is. OH well...
As for the UF greek system being better I'm not so sure about that. The sorority system may be better but but Univ.s fraternity systems have taken hits in recent years.

This post reiterates to me why I did not attend Florida.

Why must it be so difficult? :confused: Do some of the other houses (and Panhel, for that matter) really want Greek Unity?

I thought Rush was going on, or was over, by the time the Gainesville murders occurred. I doubt there's someone on the board who actually was there then. Otherwise, I'll have to dismiss that as urban legend.

Okay, I came from a colony. We colonized the Eta Kappa chapter of DG here at NCSU. We were chartered in November and promised the house would be done by January, in time for informal rush. Then it was announced that the house wouldn't be done until March. And now it will not be done until August. But it WILL be done in August. Anyway, we had to hold informal rush in different rooms around campus and it was a HUGE problem. It would have been so much easier with a "home base." People got the locations mixed up and missed parties...even some of our sisters got the locations mixed up. I'm thankful that when formal rush comes along we will have a house. Cut DZ a break. It's hard to be new somewhere. Like other people said, not having a house in the first place on a good Greek campus is going to hurt them enough! Don't be selfish. It's unbelievably hard to colonize and get things up and going. Everything has to be built from scratch. Plus, on most Greek campuses, certain sororities and certain fraternities tend to pair off. I know at NCSU there are certain sororities that tend to do things with certain fraternities and vice versa. As a new group on campus, it's natural that all the fraternities want to do things with them, including ATO. You just sound selfish by saying you don't think they should be allowed to use their house. Like everyone has said, the girls will know it's not their house...and it'll hurt them enough already. The Greek community is about helping eachother out. ATO is just trying to help.

Here's the actual paragraph from the Alligator (I was getting concerned I misspoke so I got off my duff & searched):

This is not the first time the chapter has recolonized. In 1990, the sorority had difficulty recruiting new members because of the fear of being out at night at the time of the Gainesville murders.

I think this may have been some editorializing on the part of the paper.

I was at UF from 1985-1989, and I went back during Rush (okay, to party - hey, I was in grad school) from 1989 - 1991.

Pi Phi, who did not have a house at the time, rushed (or at least preffed) at ATO. It might've been AGR at some point - yes, there is a difference between ATO & AGR - but a sorority using ATO back in my days sounds really familiar. Pi Phi was the only group without a house, so i'm pretty sure it was them.

I think after that (early 90s), they rented out the Phi Mu house for a couple of years.

Just so you all know, the ATO house is a block away from the Kappa house - neither are on Sorority (or Fraternity) Row.

AZD had an old house, but they always claimed they were getting a new one. But they had low numbers since the early 80s. They finally DID get their new house in the mid/late 90s, but that couldn't save the chapter.



The murders happened the weekend before classes started - Rush had ended by then. The murders did not affect rush.

Thank you. Please people, let's not create moral outrage where there isn't any. I seriously doubt any GLO would tell a student newspaper that this was the sole reason their efforts were not what they had hoped.

I think its fine if we use the ATO house....and just an fyi the ATO house was used for our recruitment in september when we were first colonizing so why wouldnt it be used again? Yall didnt have a problem with it then why now? And if I am not mistaken Panhellenic is made up of girls from every different chapter on campus and they all had to decide where to let us have recruitment, so if the representatives of 15 different sororities on our campus thought it was okay....id say its fair.

Please don't judge UF's ENTIRE greek community by a thread started by ONE member.

I agree that DZ should be given a fair chance at recruitment and holding parties in a fraternity house seems to be the way. UCF has done it for a while, and they've been successful.

The only thing I wonder is how a new chapter participating in rush is going to affect the smaller houses?

Also... if DZ took in about 150 girls for their colony... and there are only a few girls graduating this year.... how will this affect their numbers? If they meet quota the next two years... they're going to be huge, and only negatively affect the smaller houses (as mentioned in a previous rush thread somewhere....)

UF Panhellenic would not have invited DZ to colonize if it would hurt smaller houses...houses must be making quota and at total before they would consider opening up a new house. Panhellenic had to vote to let DZ on campus...so it's their issue. I say, best of luck to them.

WRONG
 

Being a UF Greek Alumni I can tell you that there are 2 houses who haven't gotten quota in years and are no where near total.
The big houses were bitching that they were getting too big! That's all that mattered to them and PHC, because the exec board of PHC are from the bigger houses!! The smaller houses didn't matter when I was there and matter even less now. What the big houses don't realize is if the smaller houses close, someone is going to have to take their place at the bottom and oh what a reality check that is going to be.

As I said before, the big houses are getting bigger and the smaller houses are getting smaller.
UF PHC does not give a crap about the smaller houses!!
:mad:

These are facts- from someone who spent four years living it!!!

I agree that it SHOULD be this way, and I don't know specifically what the situation was at UF, but there is no rule that says all groups must be at total and making quota before expansion occurs, and it does often occur when there are struggling houses, and does often hurt those houses.

hey curlygirly nice to see you still around....hope everything is great for you in kappa. DZ is not made up entirely of 150 freshman. The way the recruiting was done was so that our chapter was made up like most other chapters on campus. If anything we have way more juniors than any other class. There are four seniors actually graduating this semester but there are still like 20 other seniors plus another 20-30 juniors who will all be graduating next year just like every other chapter. So we wont be giagantic...besides a lot of chapters at UF are way bigger than we are with 200-210 members. And I disagree about the heads of panhellenic just coming from the big houses because I know of a couple of girls in panhellenic that are influential that are from the smaller houses. And UF is just like any other school the chapters are cyclic and in the four years I have been here I have seen two chapters in particular go from the middle popularity region to the top and likewise seen two kind of fall in stature. But I honestly believe that UF has a great greek system and being new we have felt very welcome. 154 girls from other chapters signed up to be our big sisters for two weeks and treated us like they would their own within their own chapters. We have been invited to dinner from a couple of other houses and have started planning with other sororities to have social events together next year. We have also felt welcome by the fraternities as well including ones letting us use their houses for banners and events. So maybe a lot of the groups are very about theirselves but it seems many more are doing bigger philanthropies and doing them in groups together and not by theirselves. And if that doesnt isnt unity i dont know what is.

Re: WRONG
 

I'm sorry to hear that, but to the best of my knowledge, expansion requires a UNANIMOUS vote.

But remember that even if they only have a few girls graduating this year and next . . . they could have a hundred girls graduate the year after that! :eek: Even if they do pick up quota the next two years, they might be big for a couple years, but it will even out by the time you graduate, so I wouldn't worry too much about their size.

I think DZ may have some trouble attracting girls because of their lack of a house, however. Even if they're having a gorgeous one being built, most girls want to live in when they're sophomores or juniors . . . not seniors. If the house won't be built for a few more years, girls may bypass DZ for that reason alone.

Yes, you're right about this point. Some girls want to join a sorority that has a house, a campus tradition, etc. But other girls like the excitement of starting something "all new".

I know I keep saying this, but when I was @ UF in the 80s, Pi Beta Phi did not have a house. Twenty years later (yes, I know, sounds like a long time), they have the most modern house of all sororities and are still going strong. :)

Re: Re: WRONG
 

This varies by campus. The by-laws of the campus Panhellenic Council govern this...it is quite often a 2/3rds vote. The school in my current home town follows this rule. For them to expand, 7 of the 11 existing sororities would have to vote affirmatively. Sooo, it is quite possible that a very small house could be out-voted by the groups that are way over total and obvsiously quite strong.

Re: Re: Re: WRONG
 

I stand corrected. Either way, however, I think that bringing a new group is good for everyone, if the smallest group can stick it out a few years.

This is ridiculous! The UF campus is the most competivie campus I have ever seen. And I have seen a lot. Because Gainesville is such a small town and there aren't even enough jobs for the people who want them, the Greeks have way too much social prominence. So now we have this perverse Greek world at that campus. WHO CARES WHERE THE DZs HAVE THEIR RUSH? If they want to have it in the middle of the street, who cares? They are new and need to have it in a house to be more like the other groups. GIVE IT A REST!!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: WRONG
 

The problem is that the smallest group often can't stick it out. The overall health of all groups should be considered before expansion happens. Sadly, this is not always the case and the smallest just get smaller.

Let's clear up a few misconceptions...
 

OK, I haven't posted in a very long time, but just felt compelled to do so after reading several of these posts.

I was a member of the Alpha Xi Delta chapter at UF, rushing in 1996. I was very involved with the chapter, and knew a lot of our alumnae from the 1980s and earlier 1990s. My senior year was the last year we were active before our national's horrendously mismanaged attempt at recolonization.

(basically I'm just establishing that anything I say here is from my own first-hand personal observations, not the endless chains of hearsay and rumor upon which several of you are relying)

1. We did NOT try to blame any problems we had in 1990 on the Gainesville murders. At least not any of my sisters. Either the Alligator made that up, or they were misinformed by someone from Nationals who didn't know S*** about Gainesville or our chapter. (not the first time)

2. The AGR house is NOT appropriate for sorority rush. Fun bunch of guys, but the house is basically a collection of small concrete rooms. It is a small dingy house. If you tried to put more than 50 people in any of the common rooms, you'd have a problem. WTF is DZ supposed to do with 150 of their own members, then the 100s of rushees?

3. everything that has been said about UF being competitive is not true. IT'S WORSE THAN THEY HAVE SAID. let me tell you, it's a really fun experience to see my roommate, who was a rho chi, crying hysterically on Bid Day because several of the other rho chis told the whole rushee group that we were in trouble and being closed down. Not true.

The houses are all out for blood and pounce at the first sign of weakness. The only houses that I remember not showing this too much were the upper-upper echelon that knew their spots on the totem pole were pretty safe. The worst houses of all were the ones in the middle.

And forget being supportive of smaller houses. One of the previous Greek advisors (that charming guy who fled town after being "outed") actually told our chapter president that he wanted to improve UF's greek system by "weeding out" the weaker houses if they couldn't step it up, including ours.

4. Regarding our old chapter house...oh what a mess. I blame Nationals, and always will. Don't promise a chapter a house and not deliver. For years, the women in our chapter were promised a great house that would compare to others at UF. Then, when construction started, for some reason the 3 story house that was planned was suddenly only 2 stories, and the back wing was not going to be built. We didn't have a chapter room, and the residential areas were not up to par. Definitely the smallest bedrooms of any sorority house on campus. The entire house was one big illustration of low-bid construction. Somehow in between the planning stages and the construction, someone had decided that we weren't worthy of a better house.

So now visualize rush in the late 1990s - you are rushing and have just been to XYZ, and they have a huge, beautifully decorated chapter house, large sprawling front lawn, rich wood furniture, nice bedrooms, etc. Then you come see our house, with the folding tables in the dining room and the closet sized bedrooms.

Every year, we would work really hard to get sisters to live in the house, and have to do a lottery to fill the house. Without fail, several would get picked in the lottery and decide to either go ahead and pay rent but refuse to live there or to just give up and turn in their pins. Let's think about this - either way, morale is screwed up. Paying rent for a room you don't use causes resentment, and losing a sister for something like housing is such a headache. Plus, as many of you know, if one person leaves, it makes it that much more likely that their best friends in the house may leave one day too. Many other houses on campus had waiting lists, sisters desperate to live in the house.

If you are going to build a house that has NO CHANCE of competing at UF, DON'T build it. Wait, save more money, make a new plan, or just never build at all. For the sake of the new DZ chapter, I hope that their chapter builds them a beautiful house that is worthy of them.

5. NOW...as to all the lovely speculation and rumors about why we closed down...

NONE OF YOU WERE THERE. NONE OF YOU WERE EVER MEMBERS OF MY CHAPTER. Even those of you that "think you know something" because you know an Alpha Xi that's still in undergrad at UF, YOU DON'T KNOW. There were many events that happened right before I joined and during my first few years that effected things more than anything at the end.

None of our troubles were ever related to anything disciplinary, EVER. We were never on any kind of probation, either with UF or Nationals.

We were a great chapter. When I rushed, I was struck by how real and genuine everyone was. This was a wonderfully enthusiastic group, the exact definition of what everyone on this website says a sorority is supposed to be. When I joined, we were just under chapter total, and were a very close-knit, fun group.

Then, in between my freshman and sophomore year, our new Regional Advisor (who shall remain nameless, although she really doesn't deserve that courtesy.) decided that we weren't doing things just right. She had driven our Membership VP (aka rush chair) nuts all year, and finally abused her so badly (refusing to approve even minor details and lying about budgets) that the girl finally quit. Turned in her pin and took a whole group of people with her. Then our charming Advisor handpicked the new MVP - a sophomore who had never been through rush on the sorority side before. I think she picked that girl because she thought she could push her around.

So basically, rush my sophomore year was sheer chaos. Everyone came back from summer still hurt that the old MVP had been run off and most of the girls who had left were supposed to live in the house - a sudden loss of a couple $1000 in rent funds.

Now let's throw all that in the psycho rumor mill at UF. Oh man, rush was fun that year.

basically, we spent the next few years trying to recover from that one disastrous summer. Every time we turned around, something else went wrong. Our fun fun advisor kept adding new restrictions - ones that other chapters at UF, or even other Alpha Xi chapters never had. Try explaining to new members why they can't go to that fraternity event, or we can't have functions outside of Gainesville, when all their friends in other sororities can.

We weren't allowed access to our own money, but then she would push the House Corp into spending $1000s on things we didn't want or need. (we got new wallpaper even though the stuff that was there was only 2 years old and still fine, new tablecloths that were so shoddily made that they were ruined the first time they were washed, new plants but they refused to fix the sprinklers so they died, etc.)

This charming lady actually personally pursued several sisters and tried to drive them out of the house, sometimes successfully. These were sisters who had done nothing wrong except dare to speak back to this dragon lady. Again, every time someone leaves there's a domino effect - others consider leaving with them, and those that are left feel hurt.

So now we have a genuine numbers problem. We beg Nationals for help. They sent us one little lonely advisor my junior year - a chick who had just graduated, had ZERO advising experience, and spent hours on her computer emailing her buddies. The girl had the intelligence of your average houseplant. She also charmingly kept telling us that when she rushed, Tri Delt was her first choice, but Alpha Xi was ok so she stayed. Thanks for the inspiration, you retard.

We found out later that alumnae had been wanting to send us money or come volunteer, but our favorite b***h advisor had been telling them not to, that we "weren't deserving of such help yet." We finally caught on because one of the ladies to whom she said such things was the grandmother of an active sister.

In the end, we spent about 2 years working like crazy trying to help our numbers, through rush and COB. Uphill battle all the way. Even during rush, they WOULD NOT let us select our own sisters. The last 2 years, they completely took over and wouldn't let us drop girls with toxic personalities and made us ask back embarrassing numbers. Those of you that know UF know that you can't ask back everyone - it just looks bad. We wanted to drop the rushees taht didn't fit with the personality of the house, or were clearly going elsewhere. Why look desperate by asking back rushees that would not be happy with us, and risk turning off rushees who would?

Finally, during my last semester as an undergrad, we voted to close ourselves down. We took a chapter vote, and told our nationals that we were NOT going to try anymore to bring any more sisters into our chapter. We voluntarily closed ourselves down at the end of the semester.

I'm not meaning to sugarcoat things - all of these problems did cause stress within the house. The sisterhood within the house were obviously affected by all of these events. But, even to the end, we had something good going on. My best friend in the entire world is a sister. Despite everything, I don't think I would trade it for anything. I just wish some of the external stresses hadn't so adversely affected the chapter.

...ok that's it. a rather long rant, but cathartic for me. I've been in Gainesville straight since 1996 (in grad school now), and every single time my house has been mentioned in the last 3 -4 years, it just seems that no one has the story right.

G8Ralphaxi
proud member of the Zeta Omicron Chapter of Alpha Xi Delta

Bravo for your reply
 

It is nice to set things straight and even more refreshing to have someone who was actually there come right out and tell it like it was. I wish there were more like you on GC. I hope everyone can learn from your sorority's experiences.

I agree with DGMarie

Applause to G8Ralphaxi for telling it like it is and setting everyone straight.

I'm surprised that during this whole thing, no one has questioned the total lack of journalistic integrity on the part of the Alligator. I don't think anyone said AXD used the murders as an excuse.

i'm a pretty firm believer that "journalistic integrity" is an oxymoron...... ESPECIALLY in college papers

G8Ralphaxi, I am sorry that your chapter went through so much.

G8ralphaxi,
Thanks so much for your honest reply. I certainly didn't mean to imply you guys had said that - just that I didn't understand the reference in the paper.
As long as you still enjoy and foster the friendships that you made, you have won in the end. A house is not a home, as Luther so eloquently said.
"33"

With all the talk about fairness and recruitment at ATO house, I would like to make a side comment and say GOOD LUCK TO THE DELTA ZETA LADIES! as well as the rest of Panhellenic. I hope that everyone can put the actual place of recrutiment aside and work together and have respect for other chapters during the most important time of the year.

On Behalf of the Pi Alpha chapter THANKS kellbell!!! :D

;) I actually met two DZ girls from UF at SEPC...I don't remember their names, but they were wonderful and so friendly! I know y'all will do fantastic in recruitment! I'm from UT Knoxville and I remember them talking with a DZ here about recruitment stuff (haha-we were in the bathroom and ended up using my lip pencil for them to exchange emails! :D )

At Elon when a new org is recognized they have to go unhoused in the greek courts for 1 year. however, they do have a suite floor in one of the other buildings. of course you can't hold recruitment in them! Panhel, IFC and NPHC have always cooperated with one another in regards to allowing chapters to have recruitment in the different houses, allow the rho chis & pnms to use their bathrooms and to get out of the rain or bad weather.
in the past sigma kappa held rush in the sigma chi house, AXO held their parties in the kappa sigma house, phi mu has held them in the sigma pi house and AZD has held them both in the KA and LXA houses. and the ladies of AKA were always extremely hospitible to the Rho Chis as a break house.
But these houses are also all owned by the school and that may make a difference, but i simply don't see what the big deal is. when the houses were being built and other houses were used pnm's never assumed that these were the houses they were going to live in, and it was constantly said and reminded at all parties and at panhel functions.

I know that this thread is a couple months old, but I wanted to add some coments. Phi Sig was at UF in the past. Established in 1967. Beta Psi chapter. They didnt have a house. Closed in the 80s due to low # (they didnt have a house). Re-opened a little while later maybe mid/late 80s. Then closed in the mid/late 90s. I know of the latests alum from '95 so I dont know exactly when they closed. They closed again because they were the only ones without a house. They STILL to this day own property. I am not sure why, perhaps a current or past UF student may know?? Are they planning on coming back again?!?! It is right near sororoity row, near the college of education.
I feel that if a sorority is the onyl one without a house, they do suffer! Anyone that has more info, please PM me, I would like to know. I have been up to UF many times (my boyfriend went there and so I was up there twice a month for 2 & 1/2 years). Thanks!

I think you have the dates mixed up. My sister & I were @ UF in the 80s (she was there 82-85, I was there 85-89). Phi Sig was not there during this time.

They must've been there in the 70s...and then tried to recolonize in the 90s.

There were 2 sororities that truly DID have number trouble from the early 80s to the 90s. Alpha Xi Delta gave their all trying to stay open. And Phi Mu closed in about 1986, and then reopened in the early 90s.