Damnnn Jae do u have to be so cold? I mean if prettygirl wants to voice her thoughs(some I agree with) then let her. Who or what gave YOU the right to judge anyone. All that shit you said was uncalled for. And how do you know if she saw you she would want you. Huh. What I guess you just Know You look good. It sounds like to me You are the ignorant one. And I don't care if you call yourself cursing me out cause that will show me just how *special you really are*. Please remember ALL people are intitled to there opinion. What cause I don't belieive in mixed races I'm ignorant and a racist to right. Check yo self first.

First of all, I didn't say she wasn't entitled to her opinion, but ignorant comments like I "need a white girl to floss on my arm to make me feel like someone" are uncalled for. She made some points that I agree with yes, but its comments like that that piss me off.

I completely agree with prettygyrl.
We must stick together as a race. In the back of every white persons mind is the word nigga. i am sorry that racism has died in some of your minds, but it lives everyday. And for those of you who support the Civil War as not being about slavery, but politics.....the south is definitely the place for you. You can join in that long ass Confederate Flag debate so it can continue to fly since it is only abour politics. Prettygyrl is only dropping knowledge and if you are blinded then you will never understand. It personally sickens me to see a brotha or a sista dating a white person. They know not your pain. And I am sorry that the past may upset some of you, but in order to move towards the future we must not forget our past. I am light-skinned and I HATE for people to question my ethnicity. I believe in the blacker the berry the sweeter the juice and the deeper the roots.
Our people are in prisons or either trying to kill each other and hate each other over gangs, drugs, and even greek organization rivalries. When will we wake up?
I'm sorry if the white people are offended, but that is life. I can't go everywhere you can go and feel safe. The Klan still runs strong and so do other nazi hate groups. So my brotha whose going to watch your back, that white girl on your arm.......HEll NAW!!!

shalom says:

i find your name pretty ironic, given the meaning of the work shalom.
---------------------------------------------

what's with all the hate-- between all the races/ethnicities/backgrounds/religions here?!

So much for a united greek community.

I'll tell you what, I think every last one of us has their own prejudices. And they are learned behaviors, from family, friends, society, regions, media etc.
I can remember growing up and going to a pretty large baptist church. There were a lot of white kids, and a lot of black kids, and some other races as well. I don't recall ever thinking of any of them as being different from me. They were just kids. But as I grew up, I became aware that society made some differences, and then by the time I got to college I realized that they we all are different: we all come from different backgrounds and cultures. There are some African-American friends of mine who are much more like me than some 'white' friends of mine--> it's all relative to our experiences.

I am the first to admit that, yes, I do have prejudices. But I can recognize them and I know where (and why) they come from. And being aware of them, I can also curb them before they affect my personal opinion of an individual.

I still stand by everything in my previous post, from the political stance during the Civil War to the way things are today. I know some of you will flame me for saying I have prejudices... does that mean you don't? Because obviously some people here (of a variety of histories/races/etc.) do. And if you think about it, I'm sure you'll think of at least one of yours.

I've been discriminated against. That doesn't mean that I hate all of those people forever because of the behavior of some of them. No, I don't have to deal with being African-American on a daily basis. I do deal with being a female. (If you think females aren't discriminated against, especially black females, you are just in denial).

The point to all my ramblings:
bad things happened in the past. bad things happen today. bad things will happen in the future.

we have the power to make good things happen now. we have the power to make good things happen in the future.

What am I doing to help ratify race in the states? I don't hate all blacks or chinese or Native Americans, or .....
I was involved in some multi-cultural organizations in college. (In fact, I supported a lot of the African-American student organization's events now that I think about it). I don't, nor have I ever, limited my friendships/relationships to any one race/religion/creed/etc. I've made a point to learn about the cultures and histories of my friends so I can get a little of their perspective. Never underestimate the power of education.

My GLO has different religions, nationalities, races, and genders, and is supportive of campus events such as 'World Week' and our Martin Luther King, Jr. Day of Learning. I'm happy that the brothers and sisters of my chapter weren't filled with hate and bitterness.



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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

I'm a member of a mailing list where we're having a similar discussion. A Soror on that list brought up a good point. The disdain that some African Americans, particularly women, have for the concept of inter-racial dating is related to society's and the media's view of "beauty."

When I watch TV or read a magazine, unless I'm watching BET or reading Essence or Ebony, I rarely see anyone who is a reflection of me...no one with my broad nose, my full lips, my caramel complexion, my full hips and rear, my kinky hair. For some reason, that is not considered BEAUTUFUL. But I KNOW it is. WE KNOW it is. Our Mothers and Fathers have told us so. But no matter how much we KNOW that WE are BEAUTIFUL, it still HURTS to see an African American man date and marry a non-African-American woman, and ESPECIALLY a Caucasian one. Why does it hurt? Because it can be read as that African American man telling every African American woman that she is not BEAUTIFUL, that she is somehow sub-standard. To put it another way, interracial dating/marriages are and have been viewed by some as an INSULT.

I'm not saying this is what happens in all cases. We've been though the whole "love has no color" thing, but think about it this way....why are you wearing the clothes you have in your closet? I'll bet it's because you like they way they LOOK on you. Humans are very visual when it comes to choosing a mate. Any of you who are going to attemt to tell me you were first interested in your current boy/girlfriend because of his/her mind is LYING (unless you met them over the internet, but that's a whole other issue). Most likely you were attracted because of some PHYSICAL attribute. Because you liked what you SAW. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that some non-African-American men are not attractive....I'm not blind. But I LOVE and APPRECIATE the BEAUTY of an African-American man more than I feel an non-African American woman can.

It's wonderful to have someone else tell you you're pretty, cute, handsome, whatever, even when you know you are. But when it doesn't happen, it hurts and you start to wonder if you really are as good-looking to others as you are to yourself.

I'm not saying any of this to "condemn," as some others have, those who choose to date or marry outside of their ethnicity/race. If anything, I'd like to applaud you for having a love for others that most of the rest of us have yet to understand. It's going to take a while for this nation to be truly tolerant and respectful of each other, I seriously doubt it will happen in our lifetime.....it sure didn't happen in Martin's. Our society has ISSUES.....women are still fighting for fair and equal treatment, homosexuals are still waiting for the day where they can be open and honest about their sexuality and love for each other as heterosexuals, I'm not even going into the plight of non-white Americans as a whole.

Those who believe interracial relationship will be widely accepted within our lifetime are naive at best. We have too much to do as a society before that day will even dawn.

------------------
Kelli
12-DN-94
SSU c/o 1997

Pretty and Shalom - You both have such pride in your heritage as you should. No doubt that knowing the history of your people has served to make you the strong women you both are now. I have read other things you both have posted on other threads and I can see evidence of your concern and love for others. You are both women of great worth, but some of what you have written scars that and is, quite honestly, very ugly. No one can tell you how to feel, but I would hope that in the wisdom you obtain throughout your life, you may come to find that you are better than the petty bitterness displayed in this particular thread. May you both find yourselves surrounded throughout your life by people of worth and many different backgrounds, as variety is what makes life interesting.....

As for the ability of a white woman to watch her man's back - when the situation arose, it was never a question - I had his back every time. The color of one's skin does not determine strength - physical or otherwise.

[This message has been edited by babyyblue (edited May 25, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by babyyblue (edited May 25, 2000).]

Opinions, Opinions, Opinions

Learned behaviors:
"That which is different from me is bad"
"Only those that are like me can ever understand what I'm going through"
--How often have I fought against these --

If we are to allow the walls to fall down amongst the sundry cultural differences of the citizens of the United States, must we not attempt to understand our fellow brothers and sisters, must we not attempt to reach out and comfort one another, must we not attempt find commonality were we see only physical differences? -- We have more in common then we have in differences.

Many of us come together for a cause and ideals given to us by the founders of our respective sororities and fraternities. United we stand under our beliefs - the walls fell then. One step further, we can reach out to others in the greek communities, and further to those in our community - children learn by example.

We reached the moon, but we have yet to reach out to our neighbors.

-------

Many moons ago, I saw a short. I remeber it often in discussions that have cultural/ethinic tensions:

The movie short flips between scenes of mothers preparing their daughters for the first day of school. Depicting 5 different girls (white, black, hispanic, indian, asian), each was dress in identical outfits except for the color. They even had the same style backpacks. Upon the girls being sent to school each mother instructed the child: "Now remeber, only play with other children like yourself." The girls arrive at school, look around at the playground filled with different students. Each child remebering what their mother's instructed them found the only logical solution: The last scene shows the group of girls who were dress alike - except for the color of their outfits - jumping rope and enjoying themselves.

*meow*

Username.......are you blonde with blue eyes???? Just wondering? Look you have your world and the shit you say is typical of a white person to say. You really do not have to say nothing cause you got it all right? I am just another nigger to you soo save your energy aiight!!!! Cause what you say means nothing to me and i do not know WHY what I say bothers you I mean if you are not like what I say yall are like then why even bother to respond or get angry. FEELING A LITTLE GUILTY MAYBE!? Mgdzkm........ I would not get angry if you said you did not want a black person in your bed honey ACTUALLY I would be glad that you chose not to partake in something that i loathe so much. So say it and by all means DON'T DO IT!! Jae....... you are the funniest because I never said you specifically were flossing a white woman for this reason but if the rope fit NIGGA get hung with it you know what I am saying????? No i would not want you nor would you do me any kind of way!! I am not usually attracted to weak ass men and besides I would not be your type because my reflection is a pretty brown without a tan ya dig! Shalom I am gald you see where I am coming from alot of people agree some just won't admit you know but its cool. Especially if the White women are with men like Jae hell they can have his Uncle Tom ass!!!! Monique thanks for sticking up for me. I LOVE THE BLACK UNITY LETS KEEP TIGHT SISTERS AND BROTHERS MUCH LOVE TO ALL YALL!!!!!

lol... well spoken pretty gyrl.. no matter how smart we are or how much money we have or how many so called white people are *down* for us.. We Are Still Just Another Nigga.. point blank. I'm sorry if some of you are living in lala land but hey, thats just the reality of it. I really don't see why black men date white women. I mean whats she got that a sister don't got huh. Money, credit cards. What? Can a black man please tell me why they date white women cause I really won't to know. And please don't try to give me a half answer like "cause i want to" cause that ain't telling me shit.

Monique, now I've never dated a white girl, but if you ask me I think some brothers go for the white girls because they automatically associate them with wealth and affluence. Maybe they've dated Black girls all their life but once they get to a certain level in their life they feel it's time to "take a step up". The thing is I feel that many brothers only value the sisters for their bodies but the white girls for their minds. They see them as more classy, respectable, and intelligent than Black females. Why? Look at TV. Turn to MTV and BET and in ALMOST EVERY Black video you have sisters in their shaking their t!ts and a$$. 504 Boyz, Dre and Snoop's new joint, Ghostface... The list goes on and on. I mean yeah, white girls do it too, but in my opinion not to the same extent. I's gotten ridiculous. As a result I feel many brothers don't respect sisters. They don't value them. So when it's time to pick that someone whom you want to spend the rest of your life with, cats are going to pick a woman whom they deem worthy and respectable. And too bad a lot of brothers think only the white girls are.

Ok...I think something has been misunderstood here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The only time I get upset is when sisters hate a brother when he dates a white girl. If he was to only date white girls, then I could see their anger, but to hate on a guy because he has dated a white girl or two is fucked up.I would personally be pissed if I was talking to a girl and she didn't want to talk to me anymore because I had dated outside the race. Don't get me wrong, I have much love for my sisters (my current g/f is a chocolate Zeta) and they are my preference, but overall in my opinion ethnicity doesn't matter.

I think this one is gonna be long... I have a bunch of responses to comments made by different people:


shalom says:
"In the back of every white persons mind is the word nigga."
prettygyrl wrote:
"I am just another nigger to you soo save your energy aiight!!!!"
Monique wrote:
"no matter how smart we are or how much money we have or how many so called white people are *down* for us.. We Are Still Just Another Nigga.. point blank."

It would be a sad, sad day if every white person felt how you describe and if every black person felt the way you do.


Monique wrote:
"We Are Still Just Another Nigga.. point blank. I'm sorry if some of you are living in lala land but hey, thats just the reality of it."

Black or white, not everyone shares YOUR version of reality.


shalom says:
"i am sorry that racism has died in some of your minds, but it lives everyday."

Racism hasn't died in my mind. I know that it still exists. All I can tell you is that I am not a part of it and don't ever plan to be.


shalom says:
"I can't go everywhere you can go and feel safe. The Klan still runs strong and so do other nazi hate groups."

I can't go everywhere that you can go and feel safe either, go figure. The klan & those nazi hate groups make me sick. All those people seem to want to do is hate everyone who isn't like them. Do me one favor, don't judge ALL white people based on what those fools (the klan & nazi hate groups) do. More white people are against the klan & nazi groups than you realize.


shalom says:
"So my brotha whose going to watch your back, that white girl on your arm.......HEll NAW!!!"

I was watching a television talk show about a year ago - the topic was hate groups & there were klan & nazi group members on stage. One of the things I remember about that show was when members of both groups said how they hate the whites who date blacks just as much as they hate blacks. So, it seems to me like inter-racial couples would need to watch each others backs when it comes to dealing with members of these hate groups or any other people who would hate them for being together. By the way, the klan/nazi members looked like fools by the time the show was over.


prettygyrl wrote:
"Username.......are you blonde with blue eyes???? Just wondering?"

If I was, what would be your reply? That I was a racist, bigot, pig-headed fool because of it? Would you really judge or stereotype me based on my hair or eye color? To answer your question, no, I am not blonde & blue.


prettygyrl wrote:
"Look you have your world and the shit you say is typical of a white person to say."

Hmmm.... Saying that the driving force behind the civil war was the fight against slavery and that white people did die while fighting for that cause, or that people should judge other people based on their own individual actions and not on the actions of others, or that our society is much different than it used to be & continues to improve (with or without your help), or that not all white/black people are bad/good, etc. If saying all this makes me a typical white person, than I certainly hope so.


prettygyrl wrote:
"You really do not have to say nothing cause you got it all right?"

Do you think that since I am white I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth? Do you think that someone being white means they have it ALL? Just like many of my white & black friends, I had to work my way through college. I had to borrow lots of money. I spent countless hours studying to make sure I aced the more difficult courses. Sound like anyone you know?


Monique wrote:
Damnnn Jae do u have to be so cold?
prettygyrl wrote:
"Jae....... I am not usually attracted to weak ass men"... & "Especially if the White women are with men like Jae hell they can have his Uncle Tom ass!!!!"

Monique, maybe Jae is tired of so many people (both black & white) telling him & his girlfriend how much of a bad thing their relationship is. I'm sure they hear too many negative comments from both sides of the track. Monique & prettygyrl, Give the guy a break. Be glad that he can be happy. About prettygyrl saying Jae is "weak ass", considering all the issues surrounding black/white relationships and all the pressures that come with it, I think it takes two VERY STRONG people to overcome that kind of adversity.


prettygyrl wrote:
"Cause what you say means nothing to me and i do not know WHY what I say bothers you I mean if you are not like what I say yall are like then why even bother to respond or get angry. FEELING A LITTLE GUILTY MAYBE!?"

No, there's no reason for me to feel guilty about anything. There is no anger in my responses (go check if you like). Do you really want to know why I "bother to respond" to your comments? It's because maybe one day our families will be neighbors. Maybe our children will become friends. Maybe even you and I would become friends (with this conversation being anonymous, who knows, maybe we already are). Why should we have to hate each other because of the color of our skins? Why should we have to hate each other at all? I think that someone needs to show you that not all people (white/black/etc) feel the that way you think they do or should. I respond to your messages because (I) we are not ALL "like what I (prettygyrl) say yall are like."

This thread is off the hook, good night!!! obviously we will not all agree but i'm glad to see that most are being real about how they feel and i hope everyone will at least listen and try to see where the other is coming from because that is the only way to make process, try to put yourself in the other person's shoes and see how it might feel to walk their walk, i know its hard but its worth a try to find understanding.

And Jae it seems like you are real quick to go off on the sisters when they voice opinions that hit to close to home, no one is saying you are wrong for dating outside, i think you should date outside because its what you want to do (its a variety thing with men i've been told) and i would hate for you to marry a black woman just because society says you should that would not be true to self (and sisters you don't want a man who is with you cause he doesn't have the choice to do otherwise). Do your thang and don't take comments personally, you are probably a great guy and if it doesn't apply to you then dust it off.

Prettygirl you say what alot of people feel and think but are too afraid to admit, although it can come across harsh it is very important to be real, at least people know where you are coming from, i hate it when people smile in my face but hate me in their heart.

I have really learned a lot by reading through all the messages here. I agree when people say that it's difficult to understand without being in their shoes. Maybe we can turn this into a more positive discussion by us all answering a simple question:

Do you want the problems between white & black people to continue?

i have been a silent monitor of this forum for a while but i had to respond to this topic.
ok.......... first of all EVERYBODY is entitled to their opinion regardless of how simple it may be. and going back and forth is not going to change the mindset. so, say your piece and roll out.

prettygirl: for whatever reason you are really bitter. but i think that you are taking your anger out on the wrong people. the people, (in my opinion)in this forum are at least trying to have an open mind about various issues. why would you come off like that especially with that lanuage. there are minors reading these message boards.

my opinion.....i think that you date who you want to date, why would i care what is going on in someone else's relationship? have i ever dated a white man? no. but that does not mean that i would never date one...who knows i can't predict the future. but right now the man i am with is all that. i'm out!!!!!!!

As I read through the various comments, as an African-American woman, I was very appalled at some of the ridiculous, and just down right ignorant comments that have been made in this forum. I realized that allowing myself to get "caught up," in debating this issue would be counter productive. I also realized that this thread has really gone on too long. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You dont have to love each other or like each other but everyone should at least pay each other the respect that you would like paid to you. I realize that we do not live in a perfect world, and we all have very different opinions about this issue and others, however most of these issues(especially this one) arent about to be resolved here on this forum. By making such nasty comments to one another, you are only adding fuel to the fire. You dont actually believe that you are going to change someones mind in here, do you? For the purposes of this forum in particular, I think we should all agree to disagree.

I agree to disagree....I am not trying to change anyones views at all trust me! I just speak my mind. I could careless whether someone agrees or not. Noone can change how I feel. And I expect to change noone! ENUFF SAID!

Wow...I can't believe the things that people are saying. For ANYONE to stereotype an entire race based on something that happened a long time ago or based on the actions of a single person is unbelievable. Everyone in the history of the world has been discriminated against at some point. It doesn't make it right, that's not what I'm saying, but we have to remember to help each other and not push others down.

Prettygirl, it really isn't fair for you to use such harsh language towards other people. Based on what you have been saying, should I hate all black people because of your racist point of wiews? NO, I would never do that because I know not to let one person influence my mind. And yes, your views are racist, no doubt about it.

I live in the South, and there is no strong Klan presence here. If there is, they keep themselves hidden and never do anything. Let's remember that the Klan hate all people, INCLUDING whites who aren't Protestant. They hate Jewish and Catholic whites as much as blacks. But let us not forget the Black Panthers, who hate whites and non-blacks. Basically, we will always find a group of people who think that they have the right to hate a targeted group of people. These people are mainly non-educated, trashy types of people.

Anyway, Prettygirl, I think you'd be surprised to know what type of person I am. You don't know me and therefore cannot judge me. I could be black, I could be white. And what if I'm Asian or Hispanic? I'm still the same person. I really hope you can put your pride aside and go into the world with a positive attitude. This type of hatred is not needed in our already turbulent nation. We need strong black women to bring up the positive aspects of the culture, not the negatives of other cultures. We also need strong white women, asian women, hispanic women, as well as men to help all cultures come together as AMERICANS.

Stop crying about slavery. Were you even alive during those times? No, and either was I-so don't hate me cause I'm white. Besides, if slavery never happened, you would have never been born here, and never would have had the life you now know. Get over it. As far as interracial marriages, I kind of agree with you. The values of most races and cultures are so different, that I don't see how people of different races have enough in common to marry. Love is one thing, compatability is another. I am attracted to certain people from all races, but I know that there is some common bond missing when I date outside of my race.

One more thing. Username is an incredible person. I admire her tact, her views, and her beliefs. Respect people like her. Just another tid bit of knowledge. I am a white guy, and in no way is my life a bowl of cherries. I work full-time while going to school as well. No one has, or is giving me anything. I've also served my country for almost four years to get help funding my education. I am earning everything I have. I feel discriminated against sometimes because I am a white male. It seems to me that scholarships are majorily for minorities, and admission policies are more in favor of filling the minority quota. I have to do twice as well to get the same chance as a minority, because I am white. Hey, I'm happy for everyone getting a chance, it's not easy for anyone-"surprise" even a white guy. But, I can't let that keep me down. I have to succeed, and if that means working twice as hard-then so be it.

This is in response (not retaliation) to pretty:

I have read all your replies in all the posts. I am intrigued by your strong personal beliefs and curious as to the cause. What happened to make you believe so strongly that the world exists as you vs the entire white race?

I am a white, middle-class, American male. Based on your posts, I am the epitome of all that you hate. If we were to run into each other on the street, would you scoff at me? If I were crying out for help, would you walk away?
Remember, you don’t know me; to you I am just another white menace keeping you from achieving your goals.

I can tell you this; even if I knew who you were, and what your beliefs are, I would be the first to smile and say hello. Were you in need of help, I would reach out my hand. Were you hurt, I would assist. Would you pay me the same courtesy? Where is your line? When do you put away the hate to recognize that you can love and be loved by anyone from any race?

thank you "just an observer". you have made your point well!

I've learned a lot from this whole message board, to say the least. I've learned when things get heated, just keep your mouth shut. Despite the fact that it might not be the best defense, I've found that in message boards, people LOVE to see you get mad. Sometimes it's the whole point of a post! The way I see it, nothing negative has to be said at all in most of these posts, just state you opinion, leave out the specifics that will, in most cases, offend someone, and the topic would be fine. Topics such as this are fueled by tempers. The more and more you defend, the more and more you get mad. So my suggestion would be, if you feel yourself getting angry at any post, offended by any post, just drop it and move on, because like many people have said, nobody will change anybody's mind. There is no use in getting angry or defensive. I myself have been such, and I find myself in an even worse state of mind when I defend myself to no end. I realize that not everyone is like this, but to those of you that feel your temperature rising, think before you post. Are you really going to make a point or give someone some satisfaction. I hope that this turn around in posts continues, and I'm glad that there really is no longer much tension. When we feel strongly about something, we tend to want EVERYONE to feel and think like we do, and that is not possible. So, like I said, think before you post. This is just some friendly advice. Take it or leave it.

Just an Observer.. you need to shut the **** up... What right do yo white ass has to tell someone to stop crying over slavery? ANd just because we were not there does not mean shit. Our ancestors were. What you think that it was alright to hang from a tree/ I guess it was alright to have your family sold from you. And I guess it was alright to be beaten down like a fuckin animal. Hey lets take you and put you on a poll and whip the shit out of you cause just because I wanted to. Or better yet, lets brand you so other whites can know that you belong to me.I can't believe you just said that. And I wouldn't look the way I do today if your ancestors would have stayed out of my ancestors fuckin bed. But I guess you are for rape huh. So don't tell me SHIT about slavery. Everytime I look In the mirror, I'm going to cry, Everytime I see a mixed baby, I should cry, Everytime I hear The word Nigger I am going to cry. Everytime I see a white person I should cry. I cry evertime I here the word You people. So don't try to get on here and start with that I wasn't there shit cause it dosen't work!! What you and the rest of your "white supporters" need to do is take a african-american class and get some knowledge into that space what you call a brain. I "Hate" people like you who try to justify slavery. It burns me up. And even though hate is such a strong word.... your ass deserves it and soooooooo muchhh more!!

to deja vu and monique-

you show your ignorance and stupidity when you talk the way you do. you are an angry person because you are stupid. plain and simple. no one is responsible for crimes of the past except for the people who lived then. i have hung no one in my life, and you have never been tied to a tree either. don't talk trash. and actually, i have taken MANY african-american classes while at college. it was very interesting to me. i understand that many horrible crimes happened in the PAST, but obviously we are trying to overcome that today. stop your crying and complaining and cussing. i don't owe you ANYTHING. just like you don't owe me or my race anything. SO JUST GO TO COLLEGE AND GET AN EDUCATION SO YOU CAN STOP SOUDING LIKE A WHINY 5 YEAR OLD.

that's my 2 cents

Like I said. Once we say stuff that no one likes were stupid and we need to go do something. Oh well I still say kiss my ass until I die. Thank You and have a nice day.

deja vu posted
Most (if not all) of my direct ancestors weren't even in this country during slavery and the Civil War. But you just assumed that all white people are descendent from racists and slave owners. I will be one of the first people to admit that what happened to the black race in America was both terrible and inexcusable. And that they are still suppressed, to different degrees, today. (Along with any other minority you care to name).

As Mikki said, I'm not going to change your mind. But I would hope that for the minute or 2 that you are reading some of these posts, you could at least consider another perspective. After all, that's what you're asking me to do when you want me to apologize for people I don't know, am not related to, nor would have agreed with in the past. And just so you know, I am sorry that all of that has happened. I don't feel guilty about it, it had nothing to do with me, but it's still a terrible thing.

If you (and I mean everyone reading this) can't at least entertain the ideas someone else offers, whether or not you agree with them, then you will remain ignorant. Because you will never be able to see beyond your own little world and its viewpoint. This board is here so that we can learn from each other.



------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

Hey, all I can do is thankGod for thoseof you who believe that all is well. Well Iam very aware of the prescence of the Klan. I live in the country(in SC). My neighborhood is sperated/segreagated into the Indian,Black, and white hoods. We all road the schoolbuses together. Some people dated and soforth. My cousin owns a store and white,black, and indians go there. BUT......the majority of those whites are in the klan. Hell they hold meetings less than 2 miles from where I live. So I am very aware of my surroundings. AND.....When the message was said that it would be best for us tocelebrate the NEW Year inside of our houses....racism kicked me once again in the ass. So call me ignorant ....call me bitter... or whatever...
All I can say is don't sleep..
I don't blame all white people....But racism is learned and past down from generation to generation...just the same as we as black people have been taught to be racisist against eachother

black is dirty, light isbeautiful
kinky/nappy hair is terrible
fat is ugly,skinny is better
and etc...
We as a race still have not been able to break that slave mentality...

Have you ever noticed that most white women whojoin black sororities only date and marry black men? Is this so theycan fit in? Mybestfriend and I were talkinabout this. Is this the white person's way of saying you can never have anything of your own....I will always be there to watch over you and regulate....Well watchand regulate are extreme but what are people's thoughts on this. I plan to post this under a new topic.

this is all very interesting....the majority of caucasian posters are saying, in essence, slavery happened a long time ago, i wasn't there so just forget about it. and the majority of african-americans are saying, in essence, it's a part of my heritage so i can't forget it....

who was it that said those who forget history are destined to repeat it? just a thought......

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Kelli
12-DN-94
SSU c/o 1997

Black men, white women...who cares.

I don't care how cool you may think some white folks are, it's always during times like these when their true colors show. When it comes to race...their down for theirs and I'm down for mine. All that Human Race talk is a bunch of bullshit. I don't feel threatened by white women and/or the alleged lack of eligible Black Kings.
Do I hold on the things that happened to my ancestors and hate all white folk for it?...No!
But that shit ain't forgotten or forgiven. It is written that the sins of the father will pass on to the sons, it's been that way since Adam and Eve so fuck all the "I wasn't born then shit" cause y'all asses have and will continue to benefit from crimes against my people and others. We have every right to be pissed the fuck off about it when the subject comes up!!! Nothing can ever be done to atone for those crimes and y'all bitch asses can't even fix your mouths to say, "I sorry that my Great Granddaddies or whoever worked your ancestors for free,like mules to build this country while me and the rest of my white race have lived a life of priviledge so I can pledge these "good ole boy or daughters of the confederacy GLOs and continue to move in elite circles of priviledge".

So really...if you can't say what needs to be said----"SHUT THE FUCK UP BI-ITCH" http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by deja vu (edited May 30, 2000).]

as an african-american woman.....i think that the best thing that we as a people can do is to know our history, become educated, make sure that our decendents are educated, acquire knowledge of self and become financially stable and stay alert. that is the only way that you are/will become an asset to your family,community and race/ethnic group. yes racism does exist both directly and indirectly there is no denying that. i face racism every day at work but i laugh at them because for one i am more educated then them and i make more $$$$$$. so i let them act stupid and guess what?..... they have to come crawling back to me to ask me how to do a procedure. and i simply ignore them!!!!!! so what i am saying is that coming to the forum going on and on about the past is not productive at all. and yes i know that if you do not know your history you will be doomed to repeat it but being a mature adult means (amongst other things) knowing which battle is worth the fight.....this arguement has grown stale and is sooooooo counter productive to us all. so mr. moderator would you please close this thread, so we can all have a peace of mind.

I don't think that ANYONE should forget about slavary and the civil war. Not just because of what happened, but because it's a part of most american's heritige (most meaning that not all americans have roots back that far). What happened is a terrible, enexcusable thing. I really don't know if my roots in america stem back that far or not. I have a LOT of respect for the many black women and men that survived that time period, moved on, and began a whole new life. It was hard, racism was beyond prevelant, and many of the people of that time died. NOBODY should forget about what happened, Black OR White. I also feel for the many Irish men that died at the hands of americans. Most americans don't realize that after the civil war, and slavary was abolished, irish men were HEAVILY discriminated against. They were treated like dogs. And most books will tell you that they were treated WORSE than the slaves. Racism is still prevelent to this day, unfortunatly. We see it everyday, affecting all peoples, not just black. Where does it stop? Instead of arguing about it, why don't we come up with some solutions as how we can change things. Someone asked what I was doing about, well tell me what you WANT me to do about it. How can I help? In an ideal world we will all live in peace, but this isn't an ideal world, we can only work to achieve perfection, and make our lives better, so tell me how we can help. The only way to solve these problems is to work together. We DO need to learn from the past, and I think that most of us have, but healing takes time, years, centuries. . . We have to live with the past, the burning times, slavary, the holicost (sp?), segrigation/racisim, discrimination, women's sufferage. We are all most likely linked to something in the past, and the only thing we can do besides argue about it, is come up with solutions.

[This message has been edited by mgdzkm433 (edited May 31, 2000).]

alot of whites say forget slavery pick yourself up and make it it happen. (we have and will continue to do this) but who are you to tell us what we need to do as if you can even relate. ok say we do forget slavery and we shouldn't, but say we do, what about the civil rights movement? what about all the lynchings then, inability to eat and sleep in hotels, shop in stores, drink out of the same water fountain, separate but equal (what a joke) that was not long ago my parents lived thru that, no civil rights whatsoever, we were no longer slaves but we were still not free to take advantage of the basic human rights (but your parents were, no maybe your parents didn't think it was cool to see blacks treated this way but it didn't stop them from going to the theater, shopping, eating and enjoying their freedom did it nope) i wonder how well the whites would fair if put in our situation with no one to look down at. ok that was just a few years ago, but white people say hey forget about that pick your self up and move on (we have we will continue to). Ok say we do forget the civil rights movement where a non violent man like Martin Luthern King Jr. was shot to death because he wanted equality for all mankind. and we won't forget. but say we do. well what about today when black men are automatically considered more criminal in nature, get stiffer sentences then do whites for similiar crimes.
when blacks are stoped far more by police because they look suspicious (meaning they are black) Where police can shoot at young blacks youths for target pratice (unarmed youths i might add) and get off. but of course we should forget about it right. How can you free a people who served as forced labor for over 200 years, you strip them of their ancestory, history, language, family ties, self esteem and when you are forced to let them free you say ok i've used you and kept you uneducated and you have no savings, your family i've sold across the country, go and be my equal, rise to where i have risen only you have to do it the hard way (no free labor for you), you have to work for generations to even try to catch up to where i am. for you its in the past, for you its not a matter of life or death, your life was not hampered by our destruction (and for you northern cowards who didn't own slaves but participated in the discrimination by saying i don't mind if they are free they are God's creators but they are inferior to us and we must not associate with them or accept them into our circles, lawd forbid they want to marry our white women) at least our men would have the decency to marry your white women, white men just raped black women no wonder most black women don't want their grandchildren next to us today. of course white people say forget about it, forget about it, cause if we forget about it, it will ease their own guilty conscious not for the past but for what they are doing today.

a little test so you say you are not racist.
If your parents think you should only date whites, they are racist.
If you think you are better, or more valuable then a black person then you are racist.

And don't start saying how whites got it hard too, whatever, what ever problems you have we have too and then we have an added problem and that is your deep rooted racists actions towards us blatant or subtle. go ahead ask yourself are you racist, you may be susprised to find that you are, remember you don't have to hang black folks from trees to be racist there are several categories you can fit in.

just an observer, thanks for the comment. But, I have to agree with Monique in that you cannot justify slavery by saying "if slavery never happened, you would have never been born here, and never would have had the life you now know." The USA is a country full of immigrants, except for the American Indians. So it's very possible that if there was never a period of slavery, many Africans may still have immigrated to the Americas in search of the opportunities offered here. If there was never a period of slavery, there would be a number of differences I would expect, mainly the level of tension between white/black people to be much, much less than it is now. I'm sure there would still be some problems because of skin color differences, just nowhere near as much. But, how can you ever really tell what could have been? Maybe racism would be much greater, but there wouldn't have been the history of slavery. This is starting to sound like an episode of Sliders, so on to my next comments...


deja vu writes:
"It is written that the sins of the father will pass on to the sons" & "...and y'all bitch asses can't even fix your mouths to say, "I sorry that my Great Granddaddies or whoever worked your ancestors for free..."

How do you determine between the sons whose fathers committed the crimes of slavery and the sons whose fathers
died in a war to end slavery? If you're asking for an apology, who do you ask it from? How do you know whose granddaddies "worked your ancestors for free" and whose didn't? You surely can't say that it's just anyone that is white. You can't say that all white people's ancestors were slave owners. If that were the case, the south would have devastated the north during the civil war. There would have been no separation of states & no war to unite the country. The majority of population during that time lived in the northern cities participating in the industrial revolution. The northern armies outnumbered the southern armies by far. The white people who wanted slavery were in the minority, & that's why they lost the war. So today, their decendants are also the minority of white people, not the majority. I don't agree with the statement "that the sins of the father will pass on to the sons", I'm only debating the point.


shalom says:
"the majority of those whites are in the klan"

I would disagree if you said the majority of all whites were in the klan, or if you said that all whites were racist. But I do agree that it is possible that the majority of whites in that specific area/neighborhood/whatever are in the klan. I cannot speak facts because I am not from the area you are referring to, but I'm sure it's possible. I know many white people (along with other ethnicities, of course), but I do not know anyone in the klan. Several (white) people I know do have issues with racism, but these people are probably less than 1 percent of the white people I know. But, I'm sure it depends on where you live. If I lived in shalom's area those numbers would surely be different.


shalom says:
"When the message was said that it would be best for us tocelebrate the NEW Year inside of our houses....racism kicked me once again in the ass."

I remember hearing something about this on the news. That was an awful situation.


12dn94dst wrote:
"the majority of caucasian posters are saying, in essence, slavery happened a long time ago, i wasn't there so just forget about it."

I guess this all depends on how people interpret statements & what the authors intended to communicate. My interpretation is that the majority of white people are saying that slavery happened a long time ago, I wasn't there so... don't hold ME accountable for crimes committed by other people. Do not treat ME differently because certain white people committed those crimes long ago. I didn't do it, I wouldn't do it, I don't do it - so do not treat me like I did/would or do. Treat me for who I am, not for who you think I am because I am white.


12dn94dst wrote:
"who was it that said those who forget history are destined to repeat it? just a thought......"

I agree with that. We should never forget our history, we all need to learn from our past in order progress from it.


Really wrote:
"Ok say we do forget the civil rights movement where a non violent man like Martin Luthern King Jr. was shot to death because he wanted equality for all mankind."

I think Martin LKJ would have continued to make an incredible impact in this world if he were not killed. For anyone who does not know much history about him, he was NOT one sided. He was NOT all for black people and noone else. He had a great ability to see beyond the boundaries of color. He wanted a better world FOR EVERYONE. He deserves much respect.


Really wrote:
"a little test so you say you are not racist."
"If your parents think you should only date whites, they are racist."

I guess this also means that if your parents think you should only date blacks, they are racists as well? This does not only apply to whites, correct?


Really wrote:
"If you think you are better, or more valuable then a black person then you are racist."

Just to clarify, I take it that you mean "If you think you are better, or more valuable than another person because of their color, then you are a racist."

You know at first, I said I was not going to even reply to the post. Because I knew I would see the answers and posts that I have seen.

But I had to respond when I saw how hard people were coming down on prettygyrl and Shalom.

You wonder why they are angry. Being an African-American in this country makes you angry.

When you see the divide in this country, the majority of poor people in this country are people of color, while the majority of wealthy people in this country are white.
Still today Blacks do not make as much as their white counterparts in the same job with the same education. In fact Black college educated females only make a little more than white males who only have their high school diploma. If people want cites to these statistics, I will be happy to give them.

You whites seem to jump down us African-American throats about mentioning slavery. Okay, lets put slavery aside for the moment. Lets focus on segregation. The Civil Rights Movement ended in the late 1960's. Less than forty years ago. My mother was born in the fifties and my grandparents were born in the 1930's. I have an aunt who is in her late nineties. Some white people love to think this is a discussion of the distant past. IT IS NOT. I look at my grandfather everyday and feel sad, he is an extremely intelligent man and could have been a lawyer. (I just finished my first year of law school at one of the top ten law schools in the country. I am his legacy.) But at that time the hurdles facing African-Americans trying to be lawyers were almost insurmountable and he was unable to leap them. He ended up being a mechanic.

THose African-Americans of those era who were able to achieve the impossible, get much do respect. WOmen, like my founders and those of the other BGLO's who were college graduates at a time when it was an extremely exceptional accomplishment. (It is still an amazing accomplishemnt when a Black person graduates college today. Why? Because the overwhelming image of African-Americans in this society are lazy welfare queens or hardened felons. To stay focused and know that this is not true is a battle everday, At least for me it was.) Remember we started BGLO's because we were not allowed admission into white organizations. We started HBCU's because we were not admitted to predominately white colleges.


Foe example train porters back in the 1940's who were African-American were college graduates and even had graduate degrees but the best job they could get were porters. They were more educated than the WHites they were serving often times.

The past, that many whites like to say to dismiss the wrongs of racism and even some Blacks is alive today in my grandparents, my aunt, the many other elderly African-Americans who had to deal with times more worse than these and ME.

Still today people in the South want to fly the confederate flag. A flag that represents a group of people who support and believed in the enslavement of MY PEOPLE.

This is why are ANGRY. And maybe we may displace our anger on issues that you may feel are not relevant. Even if you feel that way, you should RESPECT where that anger comes from.

One person made a comment that just because they were white it didn't mean that their life was easy. TRUE that. But you did not bear the extra burden of being Black with all the stigma that it causes. So you have it much easier. Danny Glover a Black man could not catch a cab. His money, his fame didn't mean anything. He was simply a Black man. That was all the cab driver needed to know.

I had serious issues with interracial dating: Blacks and Whites. And I uses to question myself was I a racist. And I realized after hearing someone speak on the issue that my anger and hurt was valid because it was based on a system of opporession. A system that has historically glorified whiteness with beauty.

And Jae so the anger you get from many Black women is the feeling that somehow you are affiming society's stereotype that whiteness is to be prized over Blackness. We get so much grief from those outside our race. WE expect support at least from those within our race. And so as a Black women that is where the pain and anger comes from. I am not saying it is right, it could very well be displaced and that is probably not the reason at all you are dating white women. But as a Black man, especially, you should be able to respect those feelings.

At this point it does still make me angry and I prefer that Blacks and Whites do not interracially date. But if a Black and White happen to fall in love, then by all means be happy. I would be upset if my son brought home a white girl. But I think that is different than a white not wanting their child to date a Black. Why? Because often times whites are not for interracial dating because they believe that Blacks are not as good as whites. I believe that Whites are equal to Blacks. I object for societal reasons. Because no matter what we know or all the good comment by whites that they are not racist. Racism still exists. I think it is critical for the success of the Black communities that there are strong BLACK families. Do you as an individual Black person bear a responsibility for your "race"? YES Why? Because our ancestors died and risked their lives and I am not just talking about slavery. for the freedom that you have today.

Everytime I sit in class, one of the 6 Blacks in this entering class. And hear the ignorant comments made by Whites. I get angry. And if it were not for those Whites who do reach out to me and remind me that there are those who sincerely care about racism and other issues and want to be on the front lines in the battle against it. I must say it is only a few. When I think of those whites like Thaddeus Stevens and William Lloyd Garrison who did spend their lives fighting for racial equality, I always rethink my view on hating all Whites.

Buit it is hard to keep that perspective. I have a four year old son who thinks police are cool. But when he becomes a teenager and fits the stereotype of a "black male criminal", they won't be his friends any longer. When his father is stopped and harrassed by cops because of the melanin in his skin. When I was worried about my brother moving to New York, after the Diallo incident. When I look at my son and cannot say with the same confidence as a white mother that one day my son can be president.
I remember as a little girl thinking about wanting to be president, but even at that early age I knew my dreams were futile. I was Black and a woman. That is painful. This is the pain of Blackness. But then there is the pride of being from a group of people who survived despite this oppressive situation.

I am angry everytime I go home to Compton. Where you see no White people and see the situation that Blacks and Hispanics live in. When I see the kids playing in the projects, kids whose whole life is spent in the ghetto and know that their future is dismal.

This is why African-Americans are still angry. For you white people who can't understand the anger. I hope this helps. And I hope the next time you try to jump down a Black person's throat for having animosity toward whites, maybe you will think twice and instead be an example of why their stereotype is wrong. Just like for many years African-Americans have worked to show that the stereotype of Blacks is not true.

All of my white friends are those who can understand these feelings in me. I still associate with those whites who don't but we can never truly be friends.

These are the everyday issues that African-Americans have to deal with.

And please stop saying that slavery does not matter. History, does not matter? Does the history of your Greek organization not matter? Don't you take credit and pride in the good accomplishments of WHites in this country? We glorify them right. We honor Jefferson and Washington, both slave owners. Oh I see selective history, take credit and honor only the good things but the bad things brush under the rug. I DON'T THINK SO. IF HISTORY DOESN'T MATTER THEN WHY DO WE LEARN IT IN SCHOOL. ANYONE WHO MAKES THE ARGUMENT THAT HISTORY DOES NOT MATTER IS IGNORANT. ANYONE WHO DOES NOT REALIZE THAT THE PAST AFFECTS THE FUTURE IS IGNORANT.

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Aim for the moon,.... if you miss you'll be among the stars.

[This message has been edited by chAKAlate (edited May 31, 2000).]

I'd just like to know---I am from a country in the Middle East. My people have been enslaved, raped, beaten and killed by neighboring states. Let's remember that racism is going on RIGHT NOW!!! In Iran, Syria, etc... People keep talking about "Well, why aren't you white people doing anything to stop racism?" I ask you, "Why aren't you AMERICANS doing anything to help people in the Middle East???" I'll tell you why--it's too hard to make a significant difference in the world. I just wish we could all make little changes in the way we treat others--all those little changes could add up to a few big changes.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I don't see why blacks are angry. I'm a black female and I know how the world can be when you're brown. Personality wise, I'm pretty moody and I there are a lot of things that can set me off. But as I've gotten slightly older, I have seen that sometimes it's all about looking at the big picture. Currently I'm working as a sales person at a Nordstom in Northern Virginia where there are a lot of wealthy white people. Contrary to popular belief, most of my customers are nice. But sometimes I can get those one or two customers who think that I just got off the slave ship. While I was complaining to another black sales person about I realized in 1895 I would have never been able to walk into a Nordstrom, let alone work there. I was unhappy with my current situation but then I realize how far my people had come and I felt happy and proud.

In my lifetime, the status of my people will not reach it's deserved place, but anger has no place in progress. Still, some people need to realize that a person's attitude depends on many things, such as how you grew up. People that are used to seeing blacks in average to good living/working situations might have a less harsh opinion.

When I look at myself I see a person. Even though there is a brown face and kinky head in the mirror, I just see Pop. I try not to get angry about things because there are enough of us who are angry. All I can do is keep the GPA and positive attitude up and try carry myself like a role model for anyone who needs one (especially my young sista's). I will never forget the past but even when it's thrown in my face I use every ounce of power in me to swallow it even though it's bitter medicine. That's something that blacks just have to do. It comes with the territory.



[This message has been edited by Poplife (edited May 31, 2000).]

Soror chAKAlate....all I can say is AMEN and SKEEEEEEEEEE-WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

I'm just wondering when this topic/question became a race war? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

theXgirl