Re: Nice guys finish last....
 

Well let me be the girl to say I love nice guys....and the only time I do go out with jerks is because they trick me into thinking they are nice :eek: hence why I am on strike from dating!

If you are truly a nice guy, in the end you will win a girls heart!

OH NO!!!

OK, I'm still in school and remember all too vividly what it's like to be a freshman girl very much interested, in a the charming, handsome, older boy, and I really hope you're "reading" this girl right lifesaver!

While others who've posted have legit perspectives on what she may be wanting, no one has mentioned this side:

I guess a lot of this depends on her "history", but it really sounds to me like any *young* girl who *ASKS* "wanna *try* sex?" is really saying: "if I let you have sex with me, will you like me enough to date me, 'cause I REALLY like you, and maybe this is what you're expecting/used to and maybe this will make me seem exciting/desireable enough for you to stick around......."

Now, it seems to me, that if the girl were the ready & rarin' tigress type she definitely wouldn't have ASKED. Maybe not jumped your bones per se, but at least have "shown you the way home"

THEN the next date, brings up the "US" talk? Dude she really digs your azz! But, also really doesn't want to be a HO (ie. this girl isn't the gratuitus sex type, no matter what she ends up letting herself do to "get" you) and at the same time might not think she'll have a chance with you if she doesn't perform.

As far as her not beating down your door to tell you how much she wants to be the mother of your children, or as you put it "let you know she's interested"..... Dude, if you were a GIRL who initiated the sexual advancement and got "shot down" (you're from Texas right?, things really ARE different as far as that kind of thing works here & conservative south in general), would YOU want to be all over the guy the next time you see him? No way! You wouldn' want him to think you're one of "those girls". Especially if you liked him. Plus, if you really believe she wasn't ready (YOU SAID IT), she was probably playin a little defensive ego recovery.

She wouldn't have even brought up the "US" talk if she didn't want there to be one (of some kind)..... Not with the way she handled the sex situation. But here's the deal. The way you answered her sex question.... Well, my friend THAT's why you got the "US" question. You told her that you'd like to wait until you knew each other better etc..... Well THAT implys a "future" of some sort (however short-lived). Her reply wasn't out of nowhere.

I really hate being a killjoy, I promise. Please, you've got to believe me on this one.... But, if here you've got this girl hooked (thinkin your "so sweet for wanting to take it slow")*HELLO NICE GUY*, then turns the tables and says you just want to try the "friends with benefits, but maybe something might work out" (I call BULLSHIT!!)*HELLO ASSHOLE*. Well, what's a girl to do? You just told her that you expect benefits, if there's even to be a friendly relationship. So, she caved.

Lifesaver, I've really liked ya buddy.... But something ain't right here. If you've not really had the "time" for dating in the past, (did you really not have time for the friends with benefits type of thing you offered to this girl?), and now suddenly when you're abt. to graduate you start looking to date only to end up with "friends with benefits?" I don't get it. It really sounds like you're kinda confused abt. what you're looking for too. I've got plenty of guy friends who are bonafide, sworn-in, dedicated skirt chasers who, once they get near graduation, balk a little and think, well, maybe they missed something by not trying the steady thing while they're still in college. The ones who don't realize this is the case end up with a really confused ex-fling. I have, though known a few to really realize that they want to try something special and end up with great loves out of the deal..... I guess I just can't peg which one you are. Do you know either?

AggieDZ-very interesting post. Incredible insight to a confusing and potentially painful (for SOMEbody) situation.

lifesaver, are you listening?

I think you're the "GOOD GUY"!

Listen To AggieDZ on this one everyone. THAT is the voice of experience and knowledge right there.

I wish I knew what I know now back when i was making mistakes in college with both younger and older women, I could have avoided hurt on both ends. The worst thing to have is miscommunication. God forbid you get into a situation where you aren't on the wrong page you could have what I call the "Jerry Maguire Syndrome". Ya know, you really do LIKE someone, but she LOVES you, and thinks you feel the same. The worst thing that any guy (or girl) can do is wake up the next morning and realize that last night was a mistake. Not necessarily cause you are now a "ho", but because now you have to deal with the repercussions and emotions that come with having sex that was a mistake.

As far as the friend with benefits thing goes, well, I'm not really sure you can "find' yourself in the situation even when you are looking for a relationship. The bottom line on that one is, if you liked the girl enough to want a relationship in the first place, the hooking up part wouldn't have happened so quick, it would have waited until it actually meant something.

This is where I have no pity for people when they say they legitimately "want" a relationship, yet don't have the self control to keep their dick in their pants. EVEN if the girl was the one to initiate the action...if she was younger, and inexperienced, and worst of all, unsure of herself with you, you took advantage, plain and simple. Women are real delicate and all when they are getting into these types of experiences for the first time. Now, while i wouldn't call the guy an asshole for finding himself in this situation, i would say that he F*$(#d up. All isn't lost, cause if he is legitimately a good guy, the issue won't ever come up again, cause he will know better. That happened to me freshman year and I felt like shit, i couldn't even talk to the girl for two months. Since then, I've learned to communicate better and be upfront and honest about what you really want from her. if it's only ass that's fine, just make sure she's on the same page. But if all you want is ass, even when you know she wants more, and still take advantage of the situation, well, there's no excuse on that one.

Of course, don't think I'm passing judgement on any one person or anything like that. if there is a guy who has messed up in the past, it was me, but at least I learned from it. No excuse not to. That's what separates a legitimate "good guy" who messed up from a guy who has the potential to be decent, but has poor judgement.

I totally agree that this is what the freshman girl was thinking. I'm a Junior in college, and even though the Freshmen are only 2 years younger, there is a huge gap in "life experience" and knowledge of how college relationships work between 1st term freshmen and Junior and Senior guys. It's completely true, every older college girl can name some "older guy" that they had a huge crush on freshman year... then they hooked up with him... and they didn't end up dating the way she had hoped. It is a common experience among my female friends.

Actually I agree with AggieDZ, Twinstars and partially with PKTSU01, although they wrote it much better than I did :) .
My sentence got lost in my tendancy to become a little silly, and start gaving useful advice for mutually beneficial emotional manipulation.

KillarneyRose, that hasn't happened to me yet, a girl giving the talk and saying upfront that she wants to keep it casual so I can go forth and sample the wares of others.

And I have never brought up the committment thing with anyone first, I was always like:

The more I like you, the more I time I will want to spend time with you, and the more I will let you know the intensity and breadth of my regard both verbally and demonstrably (was that even a sentence?) And I am pretty verbal and demonstrative.(Authors note: Demonstrably is spelled corectly even though it doesn't look right).

With the converse also being true. I have left relationships when I would rather have sat home playing computer chess in the nude listening to big band music from the twenties than go spend time with the girl. In otherwords poison ivy can become preferable and a welcome excuse.

PKTSU01, I don't agree with the blame issue or labelling the offending guy an asshole. I (you and others may) have never been able to read minds. So I really don't know what her intentions are one way or the other. So as long as I don't lie to her and mislead her, and she still wants to have sex, why should I double-think my way into blue balls and a cold shower? I am not sure the moral obligation that requires I be punished that badly. Surely, I am then the victim for her getting me all hot and bothered when I didn't realize she wanted some frightening level of the "C" word.

Also, and this has happened to me, I have found myself agreeing to a committment because she brought up the talk and I realized its awfully difficult to step back a pace in a relationship. Ever try and start seeing others after a long term committment? Someone always gets devastated. So, I am mentally thinking a fair answer would be, shouldn't we wait a little longer to see if we are more compatible?

However, I can see her exclusively WHILE we figure out whether we are compatible, which isn't always bad cause it gives the person a fairer chance than they may have gotten. (If you are dating two people you are paying less attention to each than you would be if you dated one).

But if I don't agree, she is going to feel rejected unless she is unusually mature, in which case she may not have brought the subject up so early!

That is why I mention the word/mind games as a way to buy time!

Well there! *pant*

did you ever ask that girl out or what?

What??

Did Lifesaver keep seeing that Filly?

I believe there was a movie made a few years back entitled "nice Guys Finish Last." Had Brenda in it from General Hospital. It was filmed in and around the city of Louisville, Kentucky. It was pretty cool, and the nice guy didnt finish last in the movie, he got the girl and helped someone else get a girl too.

i used to believe this. i dated a girl that i treated like a queen and she broke my heart after we dated for like 8 months. she always wanted to try to pick fights with me and would get mad when i wouldnt fight back. i just didnt see the point in fighting with someone when i knew the arguement didnt really matter. i could tell she was just trying to fire me up. but i have a lot of patients. finally she said that it was over and that i was too nice. so i was stupid for a while and became a bad guy. i started drinking and smoking and stuff. and i have to say i had a lot more girls that approached me and it was easier to get a date and stuff, but the thing is none of the relationships ever amounted to anything because there was an emptiness. both of us were not as happy as we could have been, i really didnt like being an a$$ and though it kept her around, she wanted to feel loved. it seems people want what they cant have, and if you like someone but dont think that you can get their love, you try as hard as you can to get it. to end the story i gave up my bad ways when i met my fiance who saw through the crap and took a chance on me. now she is my angel and i treat her like it. though i still have a little streak of it in me.;)

Yea.....nice guys......

In the past I definitely have gone for guys with a little bit of an edge but who were still nice guys, and sometimes I even rejected boys because they didnt have enough of an edge....but now I'm soooo over that. The boys with an edge usually end up being assholes.

Now, I'm all about the nice guys.....but I still like them to have at least a little bit of an edge...

Well, I was ranting about the nice guys and I just want to say that I want a sweet boy who will treat me well, but I DO NOT want a door mat who's going to let me walk all over him--not that I would do that, but I don't like it when I get the feeling that if I did, this would be completely fine with him. I'm also not a fan of the pseudo nice guy; you know, those guys who claim to be nice but are really closet assholes.

Congratulations mattpike!!! I love your story and am so glad it has a happy ending!

Closet assholes are the worst. Girls can be them just as much as guys, but I seem to only hear of guys playing the "nice guy" act and then pulling a dickhead move after a few weeks/months. I agree with you, I want a guy who is confident/intelligent enough to hold his own with me (that can be tough sometimes!) but also has the nice, teddy bear qualities. We all want to be a princess in the eyes of our man!

I completely agree!

I prefer to think of it as men who challenge me.......

In no way do I go for the assholes but I do prefer men with a backbone. Too many men allow women to walk all over them and will do absolutely anything or give them absolutely anything.

Nothing attracts me more than a man who challenges me. I don't mean a guy who picks fights just for the hell of it but a guy who doesn't have a problem with an occasional heated discussion if he doesn't agree with what I said.

If a guy allows me to walk all over him, I will. And after a very short time, I will be sick of it, have no respect for him whatsoever and dump him.

cosign.....esp. the last part!!!!

I think she hit this one on the head. Why did you tell her you didn't want a realtionship when you do?

I think the biggest difference between assholes and nice guys is the nice guys are upfront and honest with themselves and their partners about what they want in any relationship. Jerks cover whatever they need to cover to make things go right. Of course, that never works for long. The other big difference between guys that girls want to stay with, and guys that girls don't want is independence. Anyone who is clingy, overly dependent, or seems like a push-over is a turn-off. Most girls want guys who are independent, can hold their own, and help them be the best person they can be. Do not confuse being nice with being a door mat.

I totally didn't notice this was old... whoops

Yes. exactly. Finally, people who get what I'm talking about! I'm really sick of self-proclaimed "nice guys" who whine that they are alone because girls only want guys who treat them like crap. That is such a damn cop-out.

what sucks is.....................guys that are supposedly nice.....................still end up being assholes.

a lesson i've learned over the past year... :(

Nice Guys
 

There's a lot of truth in this thread. I think that for undergrads the thing is that people are exposed to such a huge environment with way too many options running around. Most guys and girls that leave home for the first time go nuts!!! Hey, it's part of being a young undergrad. Most young women in college, in my opinion, are not ready to settle down. If they did they wouldn't be the ambitious young college women (Goddesses) I used to chase as an undergrad. They would settle down and get hitched. Now in some cases, I did run into those chics that would only go to college to enroll in the "Wife Degree". Usually these were easy to detect and didn't have that ambitious attractiveness that I used to love. Guys are the same way. As a young undergrad, and maybe I'm speaking for myself, we don't want to settle down with a wife/kids. We're in the prime of our youth at the time are ready to rock and roll. I will admit that when the cocky, arrogant, A$$H0L3 side of me would roll out, I generally did a little better with my women. I think for me a lot of it was a pride issue. I would strive to take out the Playboy bunnies to my formals/events. At times, it wasn't even because I liked the girl but it was mostly to impress the boys and supply some good eye candy!!! I remember taking this MEGA B1t3H out to a formal and it was the most horrible thing. She was hootched up to the tee and the boys all enjoyed that but that was it. Anway, I grew up a lot since then and that's just it. These same Guys and Girls, hopefully, will grow up someday and realize that values, respect, and being yourself really do go further than not being yourself. Women deserve as much respect and thought as do men. Cheers~ Boodleboy322

nice guys don't finish last.

guys that dont have game and whine all the time ....THOSE GUYS FINISH LAST. if you do this, you will end up in the friend zone. though it is possible to get out of the friend zone (as evident in faby spice saying she is willing to marry her best guy friend), it is a zone you DONT want to be in...unless you dont want to bang her.

so quit being such pussies and quit your whining. for god sakes, no woman wants a pansy.

remember that line. nice guys don't finish last. guys that dont have game finish last.

BUMP

Just wanted to throw this into the mix:

You think any of it has to do with association? Like, I've seen instances where the dude is nice and the girl is down, but the minute they meet his friends/bros, she's turned off because she think he acts like them in reality, and that the niceness is a show.

Truer words have never been spoken. Here's the thing that most women are too nice (i.e., wussy) to admit -- it's not nice guys that are the problem -- it's wussy, no-self-esteem-having pushover doofi who don't stand up for themselves.

Let's take an example from valkyrie's dating history. There was this guy, we'll call him Big Loser (BL). BL and I would hang out and I was sort of interested in him until he started letting his BL tendencies show. He'd say stuff like "You're so wonderful...why are you hanging out with me?" and after hearing that a few times I was like you know what dude?! I don't know! Go away.

I think it's human nature for people getting together to sort of test out each other's boundaries in the beginning. Right off the bat, I let it be known that if someone doesn't call when he says he's going to call, that's not cool and I've probably made other plans for the night. I expect a guy to be the same way -- don't be a wuss, and don't let me or anyone else take advantage of you. Guys have such an easy time seeing the difference between an asshole and a nice guy, but sometimes they just can't distinguish a nice guy from a wuss. I don't like assholes, but I'd probably have more fun with one than hanging out with one of those spineless guys who only says "Whatever you want to do is fine, sweetie."

Of course, physical attractiveness figures into the equation as well, but that's a-whole-nother discussion.

The irony is the weak assed punks that don't have game turn out to be asswipes overall...

That nice guys who folks seem to think finish last--finish best... These guys eventually get the girl of their dreams...

Pansy ass guys work on their game skillz and turn out to be perverts that go to peep shows/XXX stores at 12 noon... And think all the girls at the strip club are his friends, when in all actuality, these guys may need screening for American's Most Wanted Serial Killers...

THE Key to getting girls is being yourself. If you're not conifedent in yourself you'll never get laid.

theres absolutely no such thing as a nice guy. they are at first thats so he can get in ure head that hes the only one out there for you and then a few weeks or months down the road he'll screw u over.

this is my edit: if there is a nice guy out there that has respect and can treat a great girl rite then great. i wouldnt believe it until i see it.

i guess its bad that im overly confident..not concieted..im fun and i can chill with the guys and still be a great girl..im one of those token girls that wont nag(no offense to anyone)..i am myself but thats not good enough lol..damn im bitter..i guess the best thing of it all i do get laid

I think Blake Shelton's music video, "Some Beach", fits this topic well.

well said.