Ha!

I see what you're saying. I personally would be worried about making a big emotional investment in someone knowing that there's a good chance we'd get to a point in the future where there would be no way to work out our differences on an issue. I'm kind of odd though (ha!) in that I have a pretty large list of deal-breakers that would cause me to not get involved with someone who might be really cool but doesn't meet my mad crazy specifications. :)

Her point though is that here, the emotional investment would be totally unrelated to kids, since the relationship is no longer a sexual/long-term type one, but rather one of friendship . . . this conveniently leaves what some would describe as a girl's dream situation intact, whereby he realizes how dumb he is and falls all over her feet, changes his mind, and decides to have kids - but we'll ignore that for now, and pretend like "just friends" is the real goal.

Update.....
 

He called me last night and wanted to get back with me. At first I said no way because there is not going to be a second chance to break my heart. Then, he said that he would rather talk in person before I made up my mind. So, tonight @ 7pm he is picking me up and taking me to my favorite place (park) to talk and see what we can come up with.

Before I made the decision to see him I politely asked him what he wanted from me and why he couldn't just leave me alone. Basically, I was lashing out from being hurt. He asked me if we could work this out. I said, how when you were ADAMANTLY sure that there was no compromise and/or other way to solve this problem. He said, my mind can change. I was like, how? Did you suddenly realize that you were a JERK? That's when he asked to see me before I just walked away.

I went into work to talk to a guy that has helped me in the past with the way guys think. He says that one of two things are running through his mind. One, he really is serious and thought about maybe having kids in the future or AT LEAST is open to the possibility OR that he is going to tell me what I want to hear just to temporarily fix things.

To the guys: Is the last sentence true? Do you all say things to girls just so that they will stop fussin about whatever you said/did?

I don't know what's going to happen, but I will hear him out. I will talk to him rationally and calmly.

Thank you for all your viewpoints.
Q

Re: Update.....
 

Far be it from me in how a guy thinks, because I am a woman...

But your friend is right about your love's 2 things running thru his mind... And it is not one or the other--it's both.

Some people like to have their cake and eat it too...

Now you have to ask yourself do you want "it" to work out with this particular guy? Because apparently you do by going out with him tonight... I'd say have an open mind. Have expectations of yourself--how you expect to be treated and respected. How you expect to treat him and respect him.

And I am not feeling such a private place that you all shared when you all were fancy free and dating. That is somewhat a "borderline" mind game that is about to get played... But that's my opinion... However, in most serious discussions, there will be times that it might get heated, so please let a friend or somebody you can always trust know where you are and when you are expected home--a park can be isolating... And my opinion is, (and I admit, I could be wrong), he dumped you showing you how his lack of trustworthiness--and he has lost his "regaining trust back" with you by asking you to take you that "special place" to discuss anything... But that's my opinion...

Every girl needs a guy friend to decode. :) Seems like your guy friend was right.. So what happened?

So many women spend too much time trying to change a guy.. He said he didnt want kids ever, so you have to take him at his word for now.

Thanks Rob, but I really DID mean an actual friendship. I'm not talking about hoping he will change his mind. I really am merely meaning that it is better to have that friendship with someone than nothing at all. :)

Update Again....
 

We went out and nothing felt like it "normally" did. I mean he was trying everything to get back with me. Bought me flowers (I have a thing ofr blue roses which I don't think exist) but he bought some fake ones and some white roses and gave them to me. Then, when we got to the park things were okay, but still not quite the way it was suppose to be. We argued and got loud and finally, after some hours just decided that this wasn't going like either of us had hoped.

The night ended with a mutual agreement to just go our separate ways. He drove me home and I got out of the car with the flowers still in the back seat. All I had to say to him was "bye". Then, I noticed that he didn't pull off right away, so I looked out there from my porch thinking something was wrong. He called me back to the car to give me the flowers and to say that he was sorry. I stood there for at least 5 minutes in silence. He said, say something. I said, what is there left to say and I left.

Moral of the story is: Listen to your instincts. Had I gone with the initial feeling that something wasn't quite right before we even left my house, I would be much happier. However, at least I have some closure so that I could move on.

Q

IT was nice of him to set-himself up so that you could get revenge and closure.

ITs such a wierd situation. Here you are in relationship bliss and all of a suden children come up and thats it.

I am trying to picture a rational conversation about that.

He says, " I don't want children" And you respond, "ok." Because you respect his ability to make a decisiion as an adult.

And then he suddenly flips-out on you and starts a big fight about how he is not going to have kids, even though you jut rationally agreed that it was his right to make up his mind and not be questioned.

That doesn't make sense. It sounds like you questioned him about in a way that sparked an argument . And that you ended up breaking up more because you picked a fight with him than the actual content of the argument.

Then he realized as he cooled down that he still liked you and all, and maybe he over reacted by letting the relationship end because of that heated fight you provoked.

So, he sets out to kiss your ass and try to get you back. And you are all mad and defensive because you think he is a jerk and you're hurt and want him to suffer.

So you give him attitude while he tries to win you back until he gets frustrated and you provoke another argument.

Which is really not fair because most guys are not good enough at dialogue to talk their way past anger nd defensiveness, even if they want to bother.

But you get to feel a little bit better because you got to vent at him. Closure after a fashion.

So what now?

You barely knew him in high school and dated him for barely 3 months. Dudes probably rent hookers in Tijuana for longer than that.

-Rudey
--This ain't the end of your world, nor is it a sorrow most of us would care to share in.

When I was 23, the thought of having children repulsed me. As I am closing in on this decade of my life though, my mind is beginning to change. So many people have said some insightful things in this discussion. Bottom line, making a relationship work takes hard work and overall, MATURITY. It doesn't happen overnight either. It is good to have our beliefs, goals and values out on the table in the beginning of a relationship though. If you strongly want to have kids one day and he is not open to having them when the time is right (or even unexpectedly because as we all know children often are "surprises") then I suggest he is not the one either. I used to date a guy for 6 months who treated me well enough but said from day one, he never wanted to get married, nor have children. His girlfriend before me he dated for 4 years and while they are still terrific friends, he told me they broke up because he didn't want to get married and have kids. I thought at the time that he "just hadn't met the one" but as the relationship progressed, I realized that him and I both were not meant to be together. When it ended, one of my friends pointed out to me that he had been completely honest with me from the beginning that he never wanted anything TOO SERIOUS but I got all caught up in the romantic aspects of the relationship. I think as females we often tend to over-analyze things way too much with the boys, but I always say first and foremost, go with your gut, which it appears you have done. It will never steer you in the wrong direction.

3 months............remember that in any relationship, the first 3 months are only "the honeymoon phase"..............you are only beginning to get to know people then.

Nice recap.

I don't know what happens next. I guess I take it one day at a time and move on.

To Rudey: I knew him well in high school. I just never thought of him as dating material until now.

Q

Listen it's time for you to smoke some dope I think and relax. You burn a couple joints and play some of that hippy music and before you know it, you'll forget about this and probably go around telling everyone to vote for Nader.

-Rudey

Actually. What I meant is that it appears that your own self destructiveness killed the relationship.

There is no reason for the kids conversation to result in a fight. What were you thinking?

And why would you give him attitude showing your hurt and defensiveness when he is coming back and trying to have a sincere dialogue?

How does that help at alll? The scorched earth tactic in relationships is neither useful nor mature.

I think what AKA_Monet was alluding at the end of her post was wondering how mature you could be under pressure.

Whether you controlled your emotions or they controlled you, and whether or not if you were upset you could effectively behave and reason as if you were not.

This situation is not indicative of a failure of your relationship, or even of him, but rather your emotional control.

So it might be to his benefit that you revealed yourself to be easily moved to anger and bitterness over small matters.

At least thats what his friends should be telling him.

Maybe you should call and apologize.