Well as some of my dailey patrons say in my store I am not Prejadice, I hate everybody!

Beleive it or not, that is a in the cheel copliment, uphs being an ex COP!
Last time I saw anyone one Bleed guess what it was not Black, Red, Tan or anyother color but RED! It ain't NO fun!
We all may have all of our upbringing, but all I know is I will have 2 new Brothers soon, One Black and one White!
They will be my Brothers!

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Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

First off Mafia who cares if I cant spell I get my point accross. You sound like my mother correcting me everytime I post. I really dont feel like going through spell check. If you want to criticize me do it for my views, NOT MINOR DETAILS LIKE SPELLING....Secondly I live in Louisiana, Its the sticks, we are not on a national stage like California. Gay people would not bother suing here for stupid things like getting into a Fraternity chapter that they are not welcome in. Once again my view on this topic is We dont want gay people in our fraternity....and I am sure on the left coast that kind of view is "bad", but I dont care, I live in Louisiana. You should be supriesd that we accept people of all races, because the majority of cahpters of fraternities in the south dont accept anyone that isnt white......So go argue with them, and quit correcting my spelling.........PS what the hell was all that Earp?????

We do not currently have any active brothers who are gay, but we have had alumni come out to us after they graduated. It was not that he was uncomfortable with the brothers of the chapter but rather he was not at the point in his life where he wanted to let everyone know. He is a very active alumni member, and honestly, no one ever really remembers that he is gay, and no one really even cared when he told us. He is just a great all-around guy, so the brothers never even thought twice about treating him different.

*shakes head*
*apologizes on behalf of all Southerners*

Being from Louisiana does not excuse your attitude.

I'm (proudly) from Louisiana. I'm Catholic. I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but I wouldn't discriminate against a person or keep them out of my org because of that one part of their life. For all we know, in all the founders of all the GLOs, there may have been one or two homosexuals. Not openly homosexual, mind you. But its really naieve to think that out of all of them, they were all straight.

Don't assume that because we're in the South that people wouldn't sue because of discrimination. Wherever it happens, its illegal. And if a guy was kept out of a fraternity, a job, etc because of his sexual orientation, it would be grounds for a lawsuit.

By the way XOZ, I highly recommend that you and your friend go to your blockbuster and rent the movie Defying Gravity. It deals with the same situation as he does. I dunno, but it might help.

OK Junior girl,What part do you live in New Orleans or Baton Rouge? I live in Thibodaux its the sticks, but either way the majority of our members are from N.O. and they still would never even consider it. I am sure you will not say yall wouldnt take someone because they are gay on this public forum....Because that would go against what people think, but when it came down to it you would probably go the way of your sisters and not allow an openly gay person in your sorority....So dont start condeming me....Also it takes three people to keep someone from not getting a bid....Homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of me and the other members of my chapter, so there would be enough people saying no to keep that person out...Now why would someone want to sue to be in something they are not wanted in? We dont have the other people we reject whining and starting law suits because we dont allow dorks or rapists into our fraternity. Thats stupid, all gay people are trying to do by that is prove a point that they think they should be allowed in anything they want, dont you think there are better ways to go about doing that.....You said so yourself that you are catholic and dont agree with homosexuality, but you would allow them in your sorority, so where do you draw the line do you let them in your house, but they cant go to church with you?.....Honestly whats the point you are trying to make? We have differing views, I dont care what you do in your chapter....Eat all the fish you want, Its just Mu Zeta(my chapter) wont have any homos in it, end of discusion.....Oh and people do sue in Louisiana, over offshore accidents, not homos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm from New Orleans and attend LSU.

Not to start a religious conflict here, but from what I learned in 11 years of Catholic School, EVERYONE is welcome at mass, regardless of sexual orientation, race, even religion. The only restriction is that non-catholics and catholics not in a "state of grace", i.e. have comitted a mortal sin, which sex outside of marriage is (homo or heterosexual sex) cannot recieve communion.
By very definition, the word "Catholic" means universal. In other words, everyone is welcome. Even "homos" as you so eloquently put it http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

My point is, don't think that just because you're in the south that the same laws regarding discrimination don't apply to you. And don't think that someone wouldn't sue over it. Being so open about how you'd absolutely discriminate against homosexuals (especially on a public forum like this) is a good way to get your charter yanked. As has been proven MANY times, these boards have eyes and ears of some pretty high up officials of GLOs.

TKEmz894,
Whether or not I agree with you is not important. But, like I was saying, many fraternities get sued. Discrimination doesn't only mean not allowing someone in because of their sexual orientation, race, disability, etc. It could be not allowing someone in because you personally don't like them. Why do you think schools do not like to directly speak about us? Or give us good press? Because they are holding THEMSELVES liable. For example, if a fraternity gets sued at UCLA, chances are, the school will be named in the lawsuit. A lot of GLO's are moving away from membership votes. The reason is, that if a person meets your requirements (such as grade policies) you MUST let them in, by law. Instead, we choose to vote on members, thus, in the long run we put ourselves at risk for being sued. So if you did not let John Doe in because you didnt like the way he combed his hair, technically he could sue you (and might even have a valid case if that was the ONLY reason you didn't allow him into the fraternity). He would have to miss out on one of your requirements (such as grades) in order to be denied membership.
This is kind of different, but technically, anyone can go to ANY school they fit the requirements for. Women can go to West Point (traditionally an all guys school) and men can go to womens schools. But for the most part, men are not admitted to womens schools. And if they are, they will not go there because they dont have the balls. So if found that a man was not admittef to a womens school because he was male, he could sue... just like women sue when theyre not admitted to guys schools based on their gender.
Same crap applies for GLOs. A lot of them will not allow people they just "dont like", and onetime, someone is bound to bring a lawsuit. So becareful on why you don't admit someone.

I just felt I had to put my .02 cents in. At present, under federal employment discrimination laws, the only classes that are protected are race, sex, religion, creed and national origin. Sexual orientation is not a protected class. Only 8 states have passed sexual orientation discrimination laws. Just like the Boy Scouts can restrict their membership, so too can a private organization like a fraternity or sorority if the class is 'not protected.' I don't think that any national fraternity or sorority would be so stupid and close-minded as to openly restrict their membership to heterosexual people, but until the laws are changed, chapters like the one mentioned above can--in effect--prevent homosexuals from joining the chapter. While I personally think this is abhorrent, it would be awfully difficult to litigate a case like this, and it would be even more difficult to win it. It is a very sad state of affairs.
That being said, I think that the vast majority of the Greek community is tolerant and accepting of differences. That is something to be proud of. I don't think anyone here is saying that you must actively approve of homosexuality if that is against your own personal beliefs. However, ALL Americans are entitled to equal access and due process under the Constitution, whether you agree with them or not. That is what this issue is really about--and as for me at least --I'll do whatever I can to make sure everyone has access to the same opportunities I've been blessed with.
**Stepping off my soapbox now** http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

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"To hold truth inviolable, sincerity essential, kindness invaluable."

My point is its not happening at my school!!!! My chapter has had acouple of black, hispanic and oriental fraters come through our ranks.....Which is unheard of at most southern schools....And dont try to say otherwise Tiger/juniorgirl, cause my brother goes to LSU, and that is unheard of there to weather you want to admit it or not......Its very racist every where, but our chapter doesnt believe in judging someone on that....But Homos(So elequent dont you think)
are not excepted in my group of friends, whether yall like it or not.....I dont care what anyone in the nation thinks about that, its my opinion....So f*cking sue me and the individual members....all anyone would get was no money(we go to Nicholls), and a kick in the teeth for starting the sh^t in the first place..........You know this really pisses me off, cause I state my opinion and all the sudden people are writing telling me I could be sued, that I am disgracing the state, and that I am some kind of jerk who is stuck in the olden days.....Well I am sorry, I dont like the Medias portrayal of gay people being right I hate MTV, and I hated Pedro from the real world San Francisco...I liked Puck cause he said what he wanted and told everyone to F*ck off....Which is what I am telling Junior girl to do right now! Didnt I already talk to you about who shoved the golden egg up your ass and asked you to represnt our state? OHHH cause your from LSU you are all the sudden the voice of the greeks for the state? I mean if it was about representing the state, then say your thing about yall leting in Homos(So elequent) and go on about your way...But when you say you are representing our state and condemming me, for not liking homos, thats stupid, I mean say your peace and go, cause I really dont care. But as far as the catholic thing go ask your priest about Homosexuality in the church.....You know, I wasnt even representing the greeks for our state, I wasnt even representing My fraternities views, I was representing me and my friends (the majority in my chapters views... We have certain criteria we look for, Homosexuality is not thought highly upon, whether you like it or not.....If that is discrimination where do we draw the lines about discrimination and being selective? But honestly who really cares if you would let them in your sorority? Thats one in fifty, plus if you where so proud of that wouldnt you post what sorority you are in? Wont that hurt your rush? I think so even at the bastion of sanity and free thinking that LSU is.......I mean yall have to be the CU Berkley of the south...............

Damn, you are SAD....stereotype central, here we come!!!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

oh yeah - it's UC-Berkeley (Univ. of Cali at Berkeley), not CU- CU is Colorado U. Get it right.

Can ya please be more PC/SMART about this...I am ASIAN-American and we ASIAN-Americans HATE the term Orientals...it's just downright disrespectful. Can ya get with the program here???!!!!

You ARE stuck in the olden days. So when are you gonna accept the fact that homosexuals ARE in existence and WILL always BE in existence? That's really sad that your brothers refuse to live in the year 2001.


[This message has been edited by newbie (edited July 05, 2001).]

I normally don't engage in conversations like this; they eventually lead to pettiness and empty conversation.

I do, however, feel compelled to add my thoughts regarding this:

TKEmz894 and I obviously have different views/opinions on this topic; me being homosexual and him being very set against homosexuality.
I admire TKEmz894 for stating what he believes, be his beliefs correct/incorrect/bigotted/christ centered... whatever.

I would only say that its sad that his chapter may turn down a fantastic potential brother due to his sexual orientation. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

Perhaps there will come a time when negative views of the homosexual community don't exist... until then, I think that those of us who are understanding of the changing times should just step around those who are not.

Arguing against someone's beliefs and morals is futile...

Thanks for listening.

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Faced with the Divine, I was asked; "What one gift do you seek?"
I answered ever so meekly; "I seek Honor, Truth, Integrity, and Wisdom, yet those are four. How am I to choose?"
The answer came as a pounding whisper; "The four you seek are but one. I grant thee Compassion; for without it the four make none."
Author - me

This is not completely true. Being a law student, I do know a bit about this. The laws you speak of are the ones that the Supreme Court has listed as Suspect Cases. Unless you have a compelling reason to discriminate against people under these catergories, you will lose a lawsuit. Under those there are other catergories. Using case law, right under suspect cases are ADA (american disability act, sexual orientation etc, to name a few). These also require a big compelling reason to discriminate. Besides that there are A LOT of other catergories. Technically, you can sue for anything... when it comes to discrimination, the lower the class, the smaller of a reason you need to prove why you discriminated. In this case, you need a BIG compelling reason to why you discriminated. Look it up.
Secondly, GLOs are NOT private organizations in most cases. If the are registered by the school AND recognized on campus of a public school (or a school that recieves substantial federal aid) they become a PUBLIC organization. Just because our national headquarters is private, doesnt make the local chapters private... just means we are chartered by a private organization.

Hi mafia,
Its always good to see another law wonk on the boards http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif. The federal law I was referring to is Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. It was amended in 1991 to include the ADA, but I'm pretty sure sexual orientation is still not there under Title VII.
I believe what you are referring to is the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. Under the EPC, sexual orientation only triggers a rational basis test (which you know is the most lenient), AND a court will only review on an EPC basis if it finds 'state action.' I don't believe that fraternity recruitment practices would satisfy 'state action' in this case.
I'm hoping that Romer v. Evans and other cases like it will allow sexual orientation to become at least a quasi-suspect class, so it will trigger intermediate or strict scrutiny. I hope that is the direction the Supremes are going in permanently.
Either way, I think that we both agree that, practically speaking, a suit like this would be tough on everyone. Fair-minded people like us still have a long fight ahead.
(PS: If you ever need outlines, study guides, etc, please feel free to let me know. I still have all my class outlines, and my BarBri California Bar exam materials. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif )

Okay people, lets READ things here, not just make things up. I never said that LSU is so amazingly free-thinking and that discrimination against homosexuals never occurs. I simply stated I attended LSU.
I also stated that being in the deep south does not leave people immune from having a discrimination lawsuit brought against them.

I also never said that it wasn't an outrage that the GLOs at LSU remain practically all white. I do find it offensive that things are so incredibly segregated. It never came up, however, because that's not the topic. Is it really necessary to bring race into this and accuse me of being a racist simply because I kept my statements on topic? The fact is ALL discrimination is wrong, be it because of age, sex, race, or religion. But this discussion was on homosexuality, not race. Please read more carefully before making such serious accusations.