Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2136650)

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2136654)

I can't look at this guy anymore. If this were the 'You laugh, you lose' thread, I would have lost 5 times already.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 2136653)

shirley1929ity?

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136657)

I've never seen this post before or heard of Shirley, but if I had a chance to meet her I would say BRAVO!

I'M NOT SAYING GREEKS ARE MEAN, for the 2nd time. What I advocate in this post is simple. When you go into your voting process for your next recruitment, don't vote against someone because they depledged or left recruitment! I cannot think of a simpler way to phrase that! I'm not saying the GCers are going to solve this problem or are the only thing that needs to change. The root of the problem is what needs to change and that is allowing for these girls to not have a fair chance at being Greek. Rather than saying XYZ has a competitive Greek system, sisters should advocate to raise campus total, etc. so they can reach a wider pool of girls. We can't pride ourselves on rejecting PNMs, we need to pride ourselves on positively effecting young women through involvement in Greek Life.

I know Bama and Ole Miss have competitive recruitment processes. Without naming my school or organization, I will say that I go to a university with one of the most competitive Greek Life systems in the New England/Mid-Atlantic regions. I have done the whole, fill out recs, meet alumni, talk to advisors thing when I went through formal and informal recruitment (which isn't forgiving at all at my school!) and only received a bid after extremely unusual circumstances. I just think that WE need to keep an open mind as much as we encourage PNMs to do so.

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136657)

I've never seen this post before or heard of Shirley, but if I had a chance to meet her I would say BRAVO!

I'M NOT SAYING GREEKS ARE MEAN, for the 2nd time. What I advocate in this post is simple. When you go into your voting process for your next recruitment, don't vote against someone because they depledged or left recruitment! I cannot think of a simpler way to phrase that! I'm not saying the GCers are going to solve this problem or are the only thing that needs to change. The root of the problem is what needs to change and that is allowing for these girls to not have a fair chance at being Greek. Rather than saying XYZ has a competitive Greek system, sisters should advocate to raise campus total, etc. so they can reach a wider pool of girls. We can't pride ourselves on rejecting PNMs, we need to pride ourselves on positively effecting young women through involvement in Greek Life.

I know Bama and Ole Miss have competitive recruitment processes. Without naming my school or organization, I will say that I go to a university with one of the most competitive Greek Life systems in the New England/Mid-Atlantic regions. I have done the whole, fill out recs, meet alumni, talk to advisors thing when I went through formal and informal recruitment (which isn't forgiving at all at my school!) and only received a bid after extremely unusual circumstances. I just think that WE need to keep an open mind as much as we encourage PNMs to do so.

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136623)

Have you ever thought about how close minded you all sound on this forum? I have a message for both my fellow Greeks and for PNMs which might (probably) will offend many of you, but I think it needs to be said.


It’s almost a daily occurrence a young woman will come to this forum asking questions about standing out at recruitment and getting replies about how she should just give up on Greek Life because she screwed up and there are no second chances in life. These young women come to this forum because they are actively seeking help because they want to join an organization to meet people, make friends and have a positive experience in college. No one would seek out an organization with the mind set, “I want this experience to ruin the best year of my life for me. I want to ruin the lives of hundreds of girls in my (soon-to-be) chapter by creating a bad name for the organization”. They see the embellishments of Greek Life like lettered shirts, big/little baskets, parties, etc before they join, but what keeps them around are the real meanings behind being in a sorority; the friendships, experiences, accomplishments. Deep down, whether they realize it or not, that is what they really want when they say they want to affiliate. Why else would they put themselves through hours of recruitment parties in uncomfortable shoes making small talk with girls they have never met before with the potential of getting rejected even though they are doing all they can to fit in? They want to belong! They want a community and they want to be a part of something bigger then themselves.

I dropped out of formal recruitment my freshmen year because I was closed minded and only wanted the house that reminded me of Legally Blonde never giving the other organizations on campus a chance. Do I regret it? Yes and no. Does dropping out of recruitment/new member period hurt your chances of ever joining another chapter? Absolutely! But is that entirely the fault of the closed minded PNMs or is it also our fault? I was one of the lucky few who dropped out of recruitment and a few years later (not long before my graduation) found my home in Greek Life. For me, it was a growing up process that needed to occur before I achieved my letters. I needed to realize what Greek Life is all about before I joined. It gave me an eye opening experience from both perspectives. I would be willing to bet 90% of you joined within the first 2 years of entering college or at the first opportunity you had to join. When you have always been on one side of the story, you never understand or appreciate the other side. You will never understand the longing to be a part of the community that occurs for students who make that decision to leave recruitment/new member process. Most of you will even take your letters for granted compared to members like myself who have experienced that longing and was finally granted the opportunity to affiliate. The legacy you leave at your campus will be defined by each of your actions. Leave a legacy of being a positive influence on others. You don’t want someone else to remember you (or your organization) for being “that girl” to them who rejects and is as closed minded as you describe these PNMs.
Does this mean I condone someone going into recruitment with a closed mind? Absolutely not! What I am asking of my fellow Greeks is to rise above that standard and realize people do change. Look at yourself, are you the same person you were when you joined your organization? Probably not! Give these members a second chance because more times than not, they will be more loyal to your organization than some of the girls in your own class. Give them advice on this forum or in person if you know them. Show them what Greek Life really means. I was fortunate to have a young woman in Greek Life on my campus show me that the letters on your shirts don’t matter, the crafts in your basket won’t last forever and that the petty drama you see so often between girls or organizations will change in the blink of an eye. She helped me realize that Greek Life was about challenging yourself to reach your dreams, to help others along the way, to make a positive difference in the world and to leave your chapter in a better position than how you joined it. If each of us challenged each other to do as she did for me, not only would the Greek community be stronger and gain so many valuable PNMs but it would live up to the dreams the founders of ALL our organizations dreamed and it would break down the negative images society has of us.

What I am asking PNMs is what many have said before me; go into recruitment with an open mind. If you accept a bid and are considering dropping, think for a minute. Will this matter a year from now? Five years from now? Fifty years from now? I’m joining an organization for life. Is the color fabric for the letters going to make a difference when I’m in the nursing home telling someone the stories of my college experience? Remember when you join a chapter, you are only meeting a tiny fraction of the thousands of women who came before you, who currently are active around the world and who will come after you.

Give each other a chance because at the end of the day we all want the same thing and that’s to be happy. :)

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136644)

I’m not saying Greeks are mean. I’m saying for BOTH sides to keep an open mind. These girls want to join and so many are afraid of not getting bids they reach out to us and ask for advice. What they get in return is negative replies of “PNMs never learn. There are no second chances” type attitude. Look from their perspective. They know they “messed up” or are at least facing an uphill battle in getting a bid under these circumstances and now we are being as closed minded to them as they were to the organizations originally. But if you look all over this board you see Greeks telling PNMs to keep an open mind without telling each other to do the same! It’s a double standard that needs to be stopped. We have a chance to give them the impression of Greek Life which is positive and rewarding for all parties involved and welcome them into our community or we can push them away, discourage them and tell the world we think we’re better than everyone else and don’t hold ourselves to the same standards we hold others.

I'm not saying either side is right or wrong. What I am saying is proven in the replies I have received from this. Your holding a negative attitude towards people who are trying to better the community because you think you have all of the right answers. I'm not saying every girl will fit at every (or any even) organization on their campus. I'm saying give them as much of a chance at joining your organization as you would for someone who has never been through the process before!

The title was to get people’s attention more than anything. I wasn’t offending anyone, but if no one reads the post the same attitude is going to discourage more PNMs from joining the recruitment process and those girls who are discouraged could have been your “future bridesmaids” if you gave them the chance.

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136657)

I've never seen this post before or heard of Shirley, but if I had a chance to meet her I would say BRAVO!

I'M NOT SAYING GREEKS ARE MEAN, for the 2nd time. What I advocate in this post is simple. When you go into your voting process for your next recruitment, don't vote against someone because they depledged or left recruitment! I cannot think of a simpler way to phrase that! I'm not saying the GCers are going to solve this problem or are the only thing that needs to change. The root of the problem is what needs to change and that is allowing for these girls to not have a fair chance at being Greek. Rather than saying XYZ has a competitive Greek system, sisters should advocate to raise campus total, etc. so they can reach a wider pool of girls. We can't pride ourselves on rejecting PNMs, we need to pride ourselves on positively effecting young women through involvement in Greek Life.

I know Bama and Ole Miss have competitive recruitment processes. Without naming my school or organization, I will say that I go to a university with one of the most competitive Greek Life systems in the New England/Mid-Atlantic regions. I have done the whole, fill out recs, meet alumni, talk to advisors thing when I went through formal and informal recruitment (which isn't forgiving at all at my school!) and only received a bid after extremely unusual circumstances. I just think that WE need to keep an open mind as much as we encourage PNMs to do so.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 2136653)

shirley1929ity?

Originally Posted by shirley1929 (Post 2136679)

Um no...I can actually put together a coherent thought and have been around for almost 3 years.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2136650)

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2136650)

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136623)

It’s almost a daily occurrence a young woman will come to this forum asking questions about standing out at recruitment and getting replies about how she should just give up on Greek Life because she screwed up and there are no second chances in life.

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136623)

.....Does this mean I condone someone going into recruitment with a closed mind? Absolutely not! What I am asking of my fellow Greeks is to rise above that standard and realize people do change.

Look at yourself, are you the same person you were when you joined your organization? Probably not! Give these members a second chance because more times than not, they will be more loyal to your organization than some of the girls in your own class.

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136644)

I’m not saying Greeks are mean. I’m saying for BOTH sides to keep an open mind. These girls want to join and so many are afraid of not getting bids they reach out to us and ask for advice. What they get in return is negative replies of “PNMs never learn. There are no second chances” type attitude. Look from their perspective. They know they “messed up” or are at least facing an uphill battle in getting a bid under these circumstances and now we are being as closed minded to them as they were to the organizations originally. But if you look all over this board you see Greeks telling PNMs to keep an open mind without telling each other to do the same! It’s a double standard that needs to be stopped. We have a chance to give them the impression of Greek Life which is positive and rewarding for all parties involved and welcome them into our community or we can push them away, discourage them and tell the world we think we’re better than everyone else and don’t hold ourselves to the same standards we hold others.

I'm not saying either side is right or wrong. What I am saying is proven in the replies I have received from this. Your holding a negative attitude towards people who are trying to better the community because you think you have all of the right answers. I'm not saying every girl will fit at every (or any even) organization on their campus. I'm saying give them as much of a chance at joining your organization as you would for someone who has never been through the process before!

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136657)

I'M NOT SAYING GREEKS ARE MEAN, for the 2nd time. What I advocate in this post is simple. When you go into your voting process for your next recruitment, don't vote against someone because they depledged or left recruitment!

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136657)

The root of the problem is what needs to change and that is allowing for these girls to not have a fair chance at being Greek. Rather than saying XYZ has a competitive Greek system, sisters should advocate to raise campus total, etc. so they can reach a wider pool of girls. We can't pride ourselves on rejecting PNMs, we need to pride ourselves on positively effecting young women through involvement in Greek Life.

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136623)

Have you ever thought about how close minded you all sound on this forum? I have a message for both my fellow Greeks and for PNMs which might (probably) will offend many of you, but I think it needs to be said.


It’s almost a daily occurrence a young woman will come to this forum asking questions about standing out at recruitment and getting replies about how she should just give up on Greek Life because she screwed up and there are no second chances in life. These young women come to this forum because they are actively seeking help because they want to join an organization to meet people, make friends and have a positive experience in college. No one would seek out an organization with the mind set, “I want this experience to ruin the best year of my life for me. I want to ruin the lives of hundreds of girls in my (soon-to-be) chapter by creating a bad name for the organization”. They see the embellishments of Greek Life like lettered shirts, big/little baskets, parties, etc before they join, but what keeps them around are the real meanings behind being in a sorority; the friendships, experiences, accomplishments. Deep down, whether they realize it or not, that is what they really want when they say they want to affiliate. Why else would they put themselves through hours of recruitment parties in uncomfortable shoes making small talk with girls they have never met before with the potential of getting rejected even though they are doing all they can to fit in? They want to belong! They want a community and they want to be a part of something bigger then themselves.

I dropped out of formal recruitment my freshmen year because I was closed minded and only wanted the house that reminded me of Legally Blonde never giving the other organizations on campus a chance. Do I regret it? Yes and no. Does dropping out of recruitment/new member period hurt your chances of ever joining another chapter? Absolutely! But is that entirely the fault of the closed minded PNMs or is it also our fault? I was one of the lucky few who dropped out of recruitment and a few years later (not long before my graduation) found my home in Greek Life. For me, it was a growing up process that needed to occur before I achieved my letters. I needed to realize what Greek Life is all about before I joined. It gave me an eye opening experience from both perspectives. I would be willing to bet 90% of you joined within the first 2 years of entering college or at the first opportunity you had to join. When you have always been on one side of the story, you never understand or appreciate the other side. You will never understand the longing to be a part of the community that occurs for students who make that decision to leave recruitment/new member process. Most of you will even take your letters for granted compared to members like myself who have experienced that longing and was finally granted the opportunity to affiliate. The legacy you leave at your campus will be defined by each of your actions. Leave a legacy of being a positive influence on others. You don’t want someone else to remember you (or your organization) for being “that girl” to them who rejects and is as closed minded as you describe these PNMs.
Does this mean I condone someone going into recruitment with a closed mind? Absolutely not! What I am asking of my fellow Greeks is to rise above that standard and realize people do change. Look at yourself, are you the same person you were when you joined your organization? Probably not! Give these members a second chance because more times than not, they will be more loyal to your organization than some of the girls in your own class. Give them advice on this forum or in person if you know them. Show them what Greek Life really means. I was fortunate to have a young woman in Greek Life on my campus show me that the letters on your shirts don’t matter, the crafts in your basket won’t last forever and that the petty drama you see so often between girls or organizations will change in the blink of an eye. She helped me realize that Greek Life was about challenging yourself to reach your dreams, to help others along the way, to make a positive difference in the world and to leave your chapter in a better position than how you joined it. If each of us challenged each other to do as she did for me, not only would the Greek community be stronger and gain so many valuable PNMs but it would live up to the dreams the founders of ALL our organizations dreamed and it would break down the negative images society has of us.

What I am asking PNMs is what many have said before me; go into recruitment with an open mind. If you accept a bid and are considering dropping, think for a minute. Will this matter a year from now? Five years from now? Fifty years from now? I’m joining an organization for life. Is the color fabric for the letters going to make a difference when I’m in the nursing home telling someone the stories of my college experience? Remember when you join a chapter, you are only meeting a tiny fraction of the thousands of women who came before you, who currently are active around the world and who will come after you.

Give each other a chance because at the end of the day we all want the same thing and that’s to be happy. :)

Originally Posted by CloseMinded (Post 2136644)

I’m not saying Greeks are mean. I’m saying for BOTH sides to keep an open mind. These girls want to join and so many are afraid of not getting bids they reach out to us and ask for advice. What they get in return is negative replies of “PNMs never learn. There are no second chances” type attitude. Look from their perspective. They know they “messed up” or are at least facing an uphill battle in getting a bid under these circumstances and now we are being as closed minded to them as they were to the organizations originally. But if you look all over this board you see Greeks telling PNMs to keep an open mind without telling each other to do the same! It’s a double standard that needs to be stopped. We have a chance to give them the impression of Greek Life which is positive and rewarding for all parties involved and welcome them into our community or we can push them away, discourage them and tell the world we think we’re better than everyone else and don’t hold ourselves to the same standards we hold others.

I'm not saying either side is right or wrong. What I am saying is proven in the replies I have received from this. Your holding a negative attitude towards people who are trying to better the community because you think you have all of the right answers. I'm not saying every girl will fit at every (or any even) organization on their campus. I'm saying give them as much of a chance at joining your organization as you would for someone who has never been through the process before!

The title was to get people’s attention more than anything. I wasn’t offending anyone, but if no one reads the post the same attitude is going to discourage more PNMs from joining the recruitment process and those girls who are discouraged could have been your “future bridesmaids” if you gave them the chance.

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2136681)

Yes but that has never stopped people from creating sockpuppets. ;)

Even if you were CloseMinded, no one expects you to admit to it. That would miss the point behind a sockpuppet.