Book pledged: the secret lives of sororities

[James]

I thought we might be able to dicuss it a little more rationally over here. Especially for people that may have done something novel, like read it.

A general conclusion: I think she did a pretty good job. She isn't overtly hostile nor is she super friendly towards the greek system.

I think some of her inexperience in life is reflected in her writings and value judgements, but thats normal. This is definitely not like the Sorority version of the Satanic Verses as some GC people have made it out to be.

In fact, most of the book is value neutral and brings up some good issues.

Some talk points:

1. I think she may have a skewed idea of Greek Life because most of her experience was at a big southern school.

2. I think some of her world view colors her perception of Greek LIfe.

For example, she doesn't seem to be comfortable with girlie-girl culture, so when she sees it she despises it a bit.

She seems very Politically Correct. Almost as PC as I would expect a college administrator to be, at least on the surface. IT makes her come across somewhat naive, almost like some people that have been in academia all their lives and have specific ideas about how the world SHOULD be.

3. She seems to value diversisty for diversities sake. She says it like a buzz word. Again like an academic.

There are other things we can discuss also I am sure.

[AchtungBaby80]

Good points, James.

I'm only about halfway through, but so far I like it. *waits for the lightning and thunder and, yes, flames*

[decadence]

Mine's on order & I got an email from Amazon to say it's now been dispatched.

Just wanted to say love your opening paragraph James.

[BGKdLady]

I am about 3/4 through it and so far - even though I went into it expecting to rant about it - nothing has disturbed me that much. I see some very broad generalizations regarding sorority life that, to me, just happen in any group of girls that live together or spend a lot of time together - whether there are 3 girls, 30, or 300. I don't think they necessarily apply only to sorority life.

I also agree that much of the slant is because of the southern location. Much of what she discusses as "extremely important" to Greeks just was not important at all on my northern campus. I can see that traditions are probably more deep-rooted and "die-hard" in the south.

Do we have any idea what school she was at??

[ASTLuv21]

I wanna read this. My library doesn't have it yet and I don't want to buy it in hard cover....

[UKDaisy]

I just bought it today......

I ordered the book online and I got a used copy for $9.99!

I am almost done with "November". Initially I stayed away from reading the previous 2398402340925 discussions related to the book because 1) some of y'all were just wayyyy too biased and haven't even READ it and 2) I wanted to keep an open mind and read it for myself.

The way she went about in gaining her information may not have been the best, but I'll be honest in saying that I'm enjoying the book so far.

Forgive me if I'm sounding like a broken record and someone else has already said this, but her purpose and laying it all out on the table like that has been fulfilled, and it's up me and the other readers to decide for ourselves whether or not we want to accept that as TRUE.

I know what it was like when I was in college, and my experience is similar to that of the thousands of sorority girls everywhere, so I'm not too worried about the fate of sororities after more people read this book. There will be 'haters' (forgive me for not including a better word) out there who will use Ms. Robbins' book as a negative PR tool for Greek life, but I've never been the type to care about what people think of me anyway.

So yes, we here at OTW like this book.

[swissmiss04]

Yes Southern schools do tend to be a bit more extreme, esp. Alabama, Tennessee, Ole Miss, etc. That's not to say that there aren't awesome people in all these places. But Rush here is cutthroat and ruthless. It becomes (for some) more of your identity than anything else. I am curious about the book. If I get a chance this summer while I'm at the beach I may read it.

[ISUKappa]

If it were being sold strictly as fiction? I think I'd probably like it a lot more than I do. It is an entertaining read. You already know I have issues with her information gathering techniques and sources, which seriously question her creditability.

I wonder if she really has good close girlfriends. The kind that you talk about boobs and sex and boys and periods with. I got the feeling through the book and through subsequent interviews, that this was her first experience with that kind of girl talk and friendship. And I think she secretly enjoyed finding that kind of female bond but didn't want to admit it because it goes against every academic bone in her body. Without first having and understanding those types of female friendships, I can see where she can be somewhat negative about sorority life because much of it does center around those types of friendships.

I think almost everyone who reads the book can find some part of it they relate to because so much of it is about college life in general, though she tries to equate it strictly to sorority life.

I think James makes some very good points. (damn, I didn't just admit that out loud, did I?)

There is speculation that it wasn't at a strictly Southern school, but at a large Midwestern school which is similar to Southern Greek Life. I can believe this as the chapter, event and lifestyle descriptions match up better at this school than they would at say Bama or Ole Miss.

[Munchkin03]

I'm looking forward to reading it...it's the book this month for the book club I'm considering joining.

My Greek experience was so different from the "typical one," that I think I might find more in common with it. We shouldn't be that worried about it honestly--if a PNM reads it and decides that Greek Life isn't for her, that's one less person to cut, right?

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by ISUKappa


I wonder if she really has good close girlfriends. The kind that you talk about boobs and sex and boys and periods with. I got the feeling through the book and through subsequent interviews, that this was her first experience with that kind of girl talk and friendship. And I think she secretly enjoyed finding that kind of female bond but didn't want to admit it because it goes against every academic bone in her body. Without first having and understanding those types of female friendships, I can see where she can be somewhat negative about sorority life because much of it does center around those types of friendships.

I really agree with this. She seemed pretty dismissive of how important strong female friendships can be and I think that makes her viewpoint a little skewed. There was a lot of talk about how sororities can negatively affect women's self-esteem (i.e. Amy and the date rape guy, how Beta Pi convinced Vicki to break up with her boyfriend) but a lot less emphasis on how they can positively affect it (ultimately, Vicki was much happier, confident and less homesick at the end of the year than she had been at the beginning).

Like I said in the other thread, there were some parts that I thought she handled very well, others just ok -- but there was very little that was really really horrible and inaccurate. (The only thing that comes to mind is the Naked Party/Boob Ranking stuff that seemed like she was overemphasizing for shock value -- I would be very surprised if that happens in more than a couple houses around the nation, if at all, but maybe I'm just naive.) I also didn't agree with her revealing the ritual of some groups at first -- but eventually I realized, hey, if that's what it takes to convince people that initiation doesn't consist of goat sacrifices, I'm for it.

[AchtungBaby80]

OK, I finished it today. I still really liked it. To be honest, a lot of that stuff did go on in my chapter...not, like, the drugs and stuff, but the drama, for example. It's a given. It's not like exclusive to sororities--my sophomore year dormmates were a lot bitchier than most of my sorority sisters--but it's inevitable when you get 100+ girls together. She did say several times that the drinking, the "scandalous" behavior, is representative of all college students pretty much, so I have to give the lady credit for at least trying to stay neutral.

However, in some parts Ms. Robbins does come off as extremely naive. I mean, extremely. It's almost as though she believes herself an expert on all things Greek simply because she spent a year in the close company of some sorority sisters, which would be like me saying I'm practically French because I spent a couple of summers there. She has the same viewpoint on the actual value of joining a sorority than many anti-Greek people have--that it's pretty much a waste of time when you can join other groups that do more for the community and less partying--but I just chalk that up to the fact that she's not an initiated sister and doesn't know what it's really like. Because no matter how many members you interview, you still don't know how it feels firsthand. I felt the same way she does before I decided to rush, so I understand where she's coming from. I was naive, too. It's just something that, as cliche as it sounds, you have to experience to understand.

Also, I didn't understand the part about revealing "secrets" and ritual. Was she trying to show people that we aren't heathens and that we really don't drench our new initiates in animal blood during the ceremony? Or did she write it because she wanted to try to "out" us and take away that bond shared by sisters that she thought was BS? I really don't know. But I will say that I got a really big kick out of reading about my sorority's "secrets." But hey, at least she didn't try to call us "Daughters of Zeus" like everyone else...I do give her credit for creativity!

I think she should've stopped the book before writing the "Recommendations" part at the end. Up til then, it was an entertaining read, but she had to go and get all preachy on us. That's where the naivete really comes out...she has good ideas and all, but I wonder if she honestly thinks anyone will take them to heart? I personally think things are fine the way they are, but...I guess that's just the unqualified overzealous sorority girl in me talking.

Bottom line is, good story. Worth my $15. Will read it numerous times, probably. But I still think Ms. Robbins secretly wishes she could've joined a sorority in college.

[azdtaxi]

I thought it was a good book but thought many of the things talked about were extreme. As for her exposing ritual secrets that just was not cool. I mean I don't know. Anyway I liked it but I also hated the last part about how we should change recruitment blah blah blah

[BGKdLady]

ok, I finished it today. Nothing in it was very disturbing to me at all. Pretty much NONE of it applied to my sorority experience. I do think that some of the things may possibly happen in some chapters on some campus, but by no means the majority.

The thing that disturbed me the most is her constant talk about hazing. My chapter did absolutely NO hazing (and I don't mean I didn't SEE it as hazing, I mean NONE) and that was (gulp) 20 years ago when the first anti-hazing laws were being pushed by NPC. I can't see that on a campus with a large Greek system, when pledge classes can number in the 40's and higher, that if such nasty things were going on that at least ONE girl would stand up and say this is BS and "out" the chapter.

Secondly, she seemed to really "diss" the NPC's commitment to philanthropy. She talked about a pancake night at one chapter and said the girls talked about guys and clothes while making pancakes, not about community service...like you can't have a good time while raising money for a philanthropy??

I would have much more respect for this book had she presented a balanced view. It is definitely very one-sided. She doesn't "follow" or even present people who had a wonderful sorority experience, like myself and like thousands of women out there.

[Wine&SilverBlue]

I just finished reading the book (well, except for her advice at the end... maybe ill get to that later) and while it was an interesting read, i feel like it did not apply to my sorority experience AT ALL.

I do not go to a big state school, greek life is not that intense at my school, we do not have sorority houses, we do not have serenades, and sororities (at least mine) do not haze AT ALL. (they can "suggest" that we wear our pledge pins, but they cant tell us to.. and innocent stuff like scavenger hunts would even be considered hazing here).

I guess I'm a little confused about her information -- did she follow these girls around everywhere? (if so, how did she pretend to be an alum or whatever for 2 different sororities on the same campus without blowing her cover?) also, wouldn't these 4 girls and/or their friends realize what happened when the book was published?

also, where did she get all of the ritual information? did random girls just go around telling her this or did she just make it up/find it online? i wonder if any of it is even accurate..

overall, this book read like a novel... FICTION. the "secrets" part just seemed really out of place, and was unnecessary.