This is just all bad

[Pi Kapp 142]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...01/22/stab.DTL

What the hell were people thinking?

[NinjaPoodle]

Apparently they weren't thinking...

We really can't make any judgement calls until more details come in.

[Pi Kapp 142]

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.as...0&nav=5D7lDVaG

[adduncan]

There's really not a lot of information to go on here--are we sure that these people are really guilty of what the article says?

I've noticed this alot in postings here: that if a news article of whatever stripe accuses Greeks of wrongdoing, including hazing, they are automatically judged guilty before (a) the other side of the story is heard (b) NIC or school authorities have a chance to investigate and get the facts, including the ones that don't fit into sound bites and (c) any court of law has a say.

I'm thinking it might be wise to reserve judgement on who is "stupid" or "will they ever learn" or "what were they thinking" and see if they are really guilty. Otherwise, you might end up condemning people who are ultimately exhonorated. Who would be "stupid" then?

Any other thoughts?

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

[Steeltrap]

Channel 11 in San Jose (KNTV) is reporting that this fraternity is involved in the brawl:

http://www.pialphaphi.com/sjsu/

[The1calledTKE]

Here is the article about the two fraternties....

Pi Alpha Phi and Lambda Phi Epsilon

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/5006741.htm

[DRau]

There have been no official releases regarding this fight. Please do not believe everything that is in the media - I have already read many mis-prints.

This is was a tradgic death, but again, nothing official has been released.

[LatinaAlumna]

This is a very sad day for greeks...no matter who is at fault.


Fraternity Dispute Ends In Deadly Knife Fight
Police Interview Several Witnesses

POSTED: 6:30 a.m. PST January 22, 2003
UPDATED: 5:30 p.m. PST January 22, 2003

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- A 23-year-old man is dead and several others stabbed after a massive street fight between two college fraternities in San Jose.


Students at San Jose State are stunned, reported NBC11's Greg Gurule. School officials have not yet commented on the case.

Police department spokeswoman, Catherine Unger told NBC11 the police department isn't sure what started the fight, "We don't know what the beef was. It looks like two fraternities, both at San Jose State, obviously have some kind of issue with each other. One of the fraternities contacted some of their brothers from a chapter in Santa Cruz," she said.

Gurule said those questioned were released Wednesday afternoon wearing white paper jumpsuits. Police confisgated their clothes to use in their investigation. None was willing to speak on camera, but off camera some students said it was a fraternity fight that got out of hand.


The fraternity community at San Jose State is concerned. Shawn Alonzo of the Chi Epsilon Fraternity told NBC11, "I know a lot of people in both and it just distresses us because that's not how everybody is and I hope that what happened, I believe it is an isolated incident," he said.
FeedRoom


Fraternity Dispute Turned Brawl


According to police, at least 50 people were involved in the fight, which apparently started as a dispute between the two groups Monday. Police believe the two groups decided to settle their differences at Flickinger Park in the Berryessa neighborhood of San Jose at midnight.

A resident called police shortly after midnight to report the men fighting in Flickinger Park, said Sgt. Steve Dixon, a police spokesman.

"They could hear somebody screaming `Somebody's been stabbed!"' Dixon said.

Investigators are interviewing between 30 to 40 people who were involved to figure out what happened. Several arrests have also reportedly been made, but officials have not been able to provide many details.

The dead man was later identified as Alam Kim of Los Altos. It was his 23rd birthday Wednesday.

The men were members of San Jose State's Pi Alpha Phi and Lambda Phi Epsilon fraternities. Pi Alpha Phi members from the nearby University of California, Santa Cruz also participated, Unger told the Associated Press.

The altercation apparently grew from a disagreement at a pool hall on Monday. The exact nature of the dispute was not immediately known, but it escalated to egg throwing and, eventually, the brawl, police said.

"They arrived at an agreement to meet in a park in San Jose to resolve their differences," Dixon said.

The group first gathered at Williams Street Park near downtown San Jose but retreated to suburban Flickinger Park when they spotted police nearby.

"Quite honestly, except for the lack of the tattoos, this is a gang fight," Dixon said. "Instead of gang members, it's frat members."

Several people were taken to hospitals by friends, Unger said. Besides the man who died, three people were treated for stab wounds and one for head trauma.

Dozens of fraternity members and witnesses were being questioned at police headquarters. No arrests were immediately made.

Pi Alpha Phi was established in 1926 at the University of California, Berkeley, by Asian students because existing fraternities discriminated against minorities, according to the group's Web site at San Jose State.

Officials at San Jose State, where the chapter started in 1991, declined to comment on the brawl. In Santa Cruz, the university is not aware of previous trouble from the group, which was set up in 1995, said Elizabeth Irwin, a campus spokeswoman.

Jack Hsia, president of the Lambda Phi Epsilon national organization, declined to comment on the brawl.

"It's so sad because they're college students. You'd think they'd be above this," said Unger of the

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by DRau
There have been no official releases regarding this fight. Please do not believe everything that is in the media - I have already read many mis-prints.

This is was a tradgic death, but again, nothing official has been released.

There are a number of reports from several different media organizations, all saying pretty much the same thing.

In addition, there are some official quotes from police spokespersons.

I suspect it's likely that what they are reporting turns out to be fact.

What a tragedy.

[Opie25]

San Jose Mercury News
January 24, 2003

SJSU suspends fraternities involved in fatal fight

SAN JOSE, Calif. _ San Jose State University on Thursday suspended both fraternities involved in an off-campus brawl, while police tried to piece together how a series of "very minor issues" erupted into the Wednesday morning showdown that left a student stabbed to death.

Police finished interviewing 70 witnesses at 3 a.m. Thursday and later announced that all of those seriously hurt in the rumble _ as well the dead student _ were from Lambda Phi Epsilon, which faced off with Pi Alpha Phi in north San Jose's Flickinger Park.

University President Robert Caret said the suspension means the rival Asian-American fraternities must cease all activities. He also said some of the students who participated in the fight may be expelled. "San Jose State University will not tolerate thuggish or ganglike behavior from any of its students," Caret said. "Those who were responsible for it have no place on our campus."

Police also said that some of the people who showed up for the rumble may not have been students. One person was knocked unconscious and four people were stabbed in the brawl, including Alam Kim, a 23-year-old college junior, who died from a stab wound to the chest.

Administrators at the University of California-Santa Cruz said Thursday that six UCSC students _ all Pi Alpha Phi members _ were detained at the scene of the fight.

"What we don't know is what their involvement was," said Liz Irwin, an associate vice chancellor for UC-Santa Cruz's public affairs.

Although everyone injured in the fight was associated with the Lambda fraternity, police would not confirm if both groups had weapons. A police log of the day's events states that "members of one group pulled out knives and bludgeoning weapons and stabbed and clubbed members of the other group." It doesn't mention whether the other group was armed.

Police have made no arrests and speculated that it would take a lot of time to find all the aggressors and check out stories to determine who is telling the truth.

"We know some people are providing information on its face that is patently false," said San Jose police Lt. Glenn McCourtie, commander of the department's homicide unit.

What police believe so far is that the rival fraternities had a history of run-ins, which boiled over at Santa Clara Billiards about 1:40 a.m. Tuesday, when 20 people began fighting outside the pool hall. Santa Clara police responded, but the crowd had left before officers arrived.

Later that night, up to 60 people met at Flickinger Park to settle their differences. The fighting probably lasted only a few minutes.

McCourtie said some of the combatants pulled out knives and clubs of many types, and the fight fanned out across the park into separate battles as some tried to run.

Police are still not sure why the showdown escalated into such violence.

"There had in fact been almost a series of friction or conflicts over very minor issues, over individual issues sometimes," McCourtie said. "This seemed to be a continuation of what had occurred in the past."

McCourtie said investigators have collected blood and other biological evidence that could lead to who is responsible for the homicide and other stabbings.

He said some of the combatants and spectators could be charged as an accessory to murder if they helped prevent the alleged killers from being identified.

The combatants could face other charges as well, ranging from public fighting to felony assault and murder, police said.

Officials, members and alumni from both fraternities have generally refused to comment.

Lambdas and Pis at UC-Santa Cruz issued a joint statement Thursday, expressing sorrow for their injured brothers in San Jose and emphasizing they do not condone such violence.

"We hope the media will not use this tragedy to stereotype our organizations as 'gangs' or 'frats,'" the statement said, detailing the two fraternities' community service records, which include bone marrow drives, AIDS walks and multicultural events.

Lambda Phi Epsilon's national president, Jack Hsia at the University of Texas, said he's waiting to see police reports.

Since the incident, both fraternities have taken down Web sites nationwide. Hsia said that may have been out of concern that the sites would be deluged with hate mail.

Hsia denied there was any national rivalry between his fraternity and Pi Alpha Phi, both of which claim to be the nation's first Asian-American fraternities. He said there may be competition between local chapters, but he wouldn't elaborate.

"Most of those are local matters. It's never escalated to a point where a brother was killed," he said. "We worry about the safety of everybody just like you would with your family."

San Jose State officials said the two fraternities, which have 50 students combined, have not been a problem in the past. Campus police had been called to two incidents at the Pi Alpha Phi house recently, one involving a fight between a boyfriend and girlfriend and another a small scuffle.

Police tape was gone Thursday from the gray Craftsman-style house that is home to the Pi Alpha Phi fraternity on 8th Street, and so were the fraternity's Greek letters that dominated a front window. At least one member was moving out and into his parent's house.

Victor and Elaine Huang said they were afraid for their son's safety and were glad he was moving into their Fremont home.

"With everything that's happened, I just chose not to live here," said their son, a 23-year-old graduate who asked not to be named.

Although the university suspended the two fraternities Thursday and ordered them to stop all activities, the Pi Alpha Phi house is not university property so the school can not force members to move out, Angela Harper, coordinator for Greek life on campus, said Thursday. But she speculated that given the fraternity's suspension, among other things, the house would not remain open for long.

Many Lambdas live in a house on 11th Street that appeared empty Wednesday afternoon, with garbage and recycling set out on the curb and mail in the mailbox. A source close to the fraternity said it had retained a lawyer.

(correspondents John Woolfolk and Ken McLaughlin contributed to this report.)

Copyright 2003 Knight Ridder/Tribune News Service