Defense of Alumni Initiation Sub Forum

[Tom Earp]

Some years ago, this Sub Forum was requested by many people on GC.

John Hammell (ADM) decided that it was a right move to come from The Main Alumni Thread as it was getting clutered.

As many can see, there have been many New AIs who may have learned about it through this Thread and are thriving Members of Their Respective GLOs.

But, there seems to be some of the same people who now want to do away with it. I can only guess what the alterior motives are at this time.

Granted some do, some do not and some do it differently. There have been accusations about going AI is for those that did not make it in Undergraduate Recruitment. This is a very malicious thing to be said.

There are many reasons that some people could not attain College status and have turned to AI. Many of the (LOSERS?) can be found on here.

Blowing Sun Shine up somes rear is totally uncalled for. The Current AIs have been through a very tough process and are extolling what they have found.

I have been in contact with John Hammelll about this and have asked Him to extend a Mod Ship as it were to a person who I felt would be a great addition to the Thread.

I nor LXAAlum are offering to step down from the Free Time Position of being Co-Mods of this Sub Forum.

It is a valuable Thread that can be very informative to some people.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

The initial question was NOT about the appropiateness of the AI subforum. The question is about the need for a different moderator for the subforum.

That's it.

The forum is quite useful (most of the time). The current moderator situation is not.

[navane]

I totally hear what you're saying, SmartBlondeGphB - and you are correct in your statement. However, out of fairness, we have to admit that, in spite of the fact that GP's thread was only asking a single question, people took the topic and ran with it. People got wound up and started suggesting that, instead of fixing the moderator situation, we should just close the whole sub-forum. I went back and counted six posts from five people where the idea of closing the forum was suggested or supported. One person in particular wrote, "That is if we continue with this wretched subforum." Wretched? I respect people's right to an opinion; but that statement seemed a bit too strong to me. This is one of my favorite forums on GC. If people are going to make statements like that, others *will* defend their desire to keep the sub-forum.....regardless of what "the original poster was asking".

To keep this topic out of that thread, it would appear that Tom is now starting a new thread of his own to address the topic. So, I'm not sure why you have objected. It seemed reasonable to me to object about the other thread getting "off-topic"; but it hardly seems fair to come on a brand new thread and say that it is not on target. As far as I can tell, this thread is for discussing keeping the sub-forum, that thread is for discussing a change in moderator. Tom's said some goofy things on GC, but it's not his fault that other people didn't stay on topic in the other thread. Isn't this what some people wanted? For the closure topic to be out of the other thread? I'm confused.

.....Kelly

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by navane
One person in particular wrote, "That is if we continue with this wretched subforum." Wretched? I respect people's right to an opinion; but that statement seemed a bit too strong to me. This is one of my favorite forums on GC. If people are going to make statements like that, others *will* defend their desire to keep the sub-forum.....regardless of what "the original poster was asking".

AXO Alum checking in to get credit for my post of calling this whole entire subforum wretched - yes I did, and I'll tell you why... because for too long this subforum has been a breeding ground for people who do not want to do their homework and just pop into GC and sorority-shop.

Like I said to ms_gwyn in the other thread (which she understood my position after clarification of my intent) - I am not going to write a personal letter to everyone on GC that this does *not* apply to - if it doesn't apply to you, then its not about you.

The word "wretched" is my opinion when it comes to the problems that this forum has helped foster. Its the only word that came to mind when I think of all the problems this forum has led to for some people (people, keep in mind, that did not want to work for AI but rather were led to believe "oh - I got cut from all 17 houses, but there's always AI")

I give major credit to people who couldn't pursue collegiate membership, and face the long, hard road of AI membership. They know what it takes, and they have done their homework to get them there - they are members of their orgs, and the route they took to get there does not matter - we have a lot of those people on here (ariesrising, bluangel, ms_gwyn, valkyrie, etc.)

Its simply an issue of people using this forum to bypass the work needed to become an AI.

Again - if this doesn't apply to you, then its not about you.

And BTW - this thread is only another way for Tom to lash out at me, kddani, SmartBlonde, and several other female mods that he continues to trash on a daily basis because he thinks that we shouldn't be entitled to our opinions, only the ones he wants us to have (notice his use of alterior motives - whatever that is!)

[navane]

Originally posted by AXO Alum

Like I said to ms_gwyn in the other thread (which she understood my position after clarification of my intent) - I am not going to write a personal letter to everyone on GC that this does *not* apply to - if it doesn't apply to you, then its not about you.

I apologize that we seemed to have some kind of misunderstanding. I did not ever think that you were personally trying to point me out. There's no reason why I would - I think I'm probably the only AI on this forum that everyone can have a 100% degree of certainty about. Really, anyone who questions my membership would have to have very poor reading and comprehension skills. I have several GC eyewitnesses to my initiation and there are photos posted of me standing with international officers. I'm not a faker and I certainly did my homework.

All I was trying to say was that I liked the forum and I don't think it's as bad as some people say. Regardless of whether or not there are "crazies" and "fakers" who are trying to AI, I like the forum and I find it useful. I feel that perhaps you (?) are trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

How about the Recruitment Forum?

* Every year we get at least one faker on the Rush forum who never got a bid like she said she did.

* I have seen lots of threads from rushess on that forum who post "How competitive is rush at LSU?" and "How do I get recs?" and "What do I wear to rush?". They don't do their homework either - they just come to GC and expect everyone to do the work for them instead of asking their campus' Greek Advisor or actually reading previous threads.

* There have been several girls who got cut heavily during recruitment and GC members told them it was "ok" and they should "try again".

Using the same standards, the Rush forum seems like just as good of a candidate for deletion as this one. How come the rush forum isn't held to the same "wretched" standard?

The word "wretched" is my opinion when it comes to the problems that this forum has helped foster. Its the only word that came to mind when I think of all the problems this forum has led to for some people (people, keep in mind, that did not want to work for AI but rather were led to believe "oh - I got cut from all 17 houses, but there's always AI")

Yes, that is your opinion and, as I stated previously, I do respect your right to have one. Honestly, I do respect it. However, I just don't *agree*. I have seen many *excellent* AIs come out of this forum and I feel bad that the good of the many AIs and PNAMs is being outweighed by the tackiness of a few. I personally was lied to by one of our infamous PNAM/AIs and I was not too happy about it (and darn it, I know for a fact that she is not a member!). But should I then turn around and have mistrust for everyone? I'm not naive, but it's not in my nature to not give people the initial benefit of the doubt.

You and I are actually in agreement on one thing; I also don't like the idea of encouraging people who got cut lots of times with "...oh but that's ok, there's always AI". I abhor that...it cheapens the hard work of the AIs and invites people who may not be good candidates to try when really they shouldn't be.

Other than a wholesale deletion of this subforum, do you have any ideas for what can we do to make improvements here? Adding an NPC/AI moderator was one suggestion. Also, maybe those of us in the know can post corrections in the rush threads whenever people tell failed rushees that they can always AI. Anything else?

.....Kelly

[kddani]

The difference between the Rush forum and the AI forum is that the Rush forum is well moderated by knowledgeable GCers. The Rush forum mods do not publicly post incorrect information, they respect the membership selection policies of other groups, etc.

Also, the rush process is fairly uniform throughout the country (we're talking about NPC rush, which is the vast majority). Styles may differ slight, but the process is the same.

AI is a WHOLE 'nother ballgame. Every single group does things differently. A lot of members don't know how it's done, because it's rare or it doesn't happen in their area. Therefore, a heck of a lot of misinformation gets passed around.

I guess it might be a necessary evil, but at the same time, changes NEED to be made.

[Tom Earp]

I guess My Point was well taken about some posters.

I do not know anything about AIing along with The Fellow Mod of This thread.

He never was AIed either. But I am the One who is pointed out.

Amazing that one poster said not All GLOs did the same thing but needed an AI Mod.

I guess My Question is Why would an AI from One Glo really know about AIing from another GLO?

Yes, With Any GLO Of AI whether Be From A Fraterity or A Sorority be able to make a definite decission either way with out some one complaining about what was posted.

Some point was made about some individual who did not make it throught Normal Rush but is trying to use AI as a back door to get in is a slap in the face of so many who have come into the Fold of GreekDom through AIing.

While, AIing is Very New to Many GLOs, it seems that there are more Avenues that seem to be opening for them.



I posted this in My Original Post that AIing is and can be a long and difficult process as many of the AIs on GC Have found.

Does that make them any less True Members of Their GLOs?

This is not about the AI Thread, This is about Me being a Mod on here.

All anyone has to do is read the posts and threads to get a pattern.

I have given John Hammell "A" Name of an Additional Possible Mod for this Thread. As I have said, it is in His Hands.

He will check all of the Threads about AI as I asked Him.

He will then make His Decision.

This kind of reminds me of The Rush Forum where some of the same people were/are complaing about it.

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
I guess My Point was well taken about some posters.

I do not know anything about AIing along with The Fellow Mod of This thread.

He never was AIed either. But I am the One who is pointed out.

Some would say that he hasn't come on here posting misinformation about a process he isn't fully informed about. Therein lies the difference.

Originally posted by Tom Earp
I posted this in My Original Post that AIing is and can be a long and difficult process as many of the AIs on GC Have found.

Does that make them any less True Members of Their GLOs?

This is not about the AI Thread, This is about Me being a Mod on here.

Show me where any of us have called AI'ers less than true members? I know you can't say that about me.

This is not about the AI Thread - its about you being the most attention starved person on GC. When things are going fine, you try to find something wrong with posts from Dani, Rudey, SmartBlonde, me, etc. You continue to trash us in threads all over the boards, and then you get pissy when we throw it back. You DEFINITELY summed it up with these words:

Originally posted by Tom Earp
All anyone has to do is read the posts and threads to get a pattern.

I just don't think that you meant to single yourself out by saying that!

[Tom Earp]

What ever.

Yes, I Post all over The Threads on GC.

Who doesnt?

Now tell Me some That dont of The Names that You mentioned.

Oh Attention starved Person on GC?

I think that I answered that question in the above post.

Why should I Have to Show You when You can Go Back and Read threads. Oh, the thing that some accuse New GCers of not doing any Search of Past Posts that are Years old.

There are Many New People on GC Daily that are not so well versed as some seem to be.


A Few Have made this site so serioius of wanting to control it that THE FUN IS GONE!

Maybe that is why so many have quit?

To any New GCers Who Read This, just keep posting and asking Questions. It is like anything New that You May Join!

There are a Pot Full Of People That Will Be willing to work with you!

Oh, I guess You answered one of My Questions.

Oh, No Names Advanced was there?

GOOD WORD PISSY!

What is the Old Joke?

Oh, if the foo bird________-------S!

[blueangel]

I keep reading about all of these PNM's for AI who "have not done their homework" and who "were cut by all houses in college" and who are "crazies."

WHERE ARE THEY??? WHO ARE THEY????

I have only seen one questionable person posting here, and she seems to have disappeared.

For those so determined to shut down a very helpful and friendly sub-forum, I think you owe us concrete examples. Or do you have another agenda?

Further, I see nothing wrong with the moderation of this forum. The job of a moderator (which, btw is an unpaid position) is to make sure the rules are followed... period!

I think the way this whole campaign was conducted is reprehensible. If there is a perceived problem with a moderator, then it should have been brought up IN PRIVATE with the moderator him/herself. If no satisfaction was given, then this should be brought up to John IN PRIVATE!

I've seen some REALLY awful violations of the rules on other areas of GC-- some hateful and very un-Greek-like personal attacks-- yet nobody is complaining about those areas. Why is that?

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by blueangel
The job of a moderator (which, btw is an unpaid position) is to make sure the rules are followed... period!

What?! This is an unpaid position? Well am I supposed to send back all the money that I have received thus far in my mod career?

blueangel, I am glad that you are sticking up for Tom - someone probably should - but you would know the very definition of the word reprehensible if you knew some of the lengths he has gone to in order to be insulting to so many of us.

As far as this forum goes - I understand that it can and has been helpful to many people. Believe me, I am not alone in thinking that is has also been detrimental to the AI process in other ways (aka, blowing sunshine, etc. etc.). I am sorry that I cannot revive old posts that have since been deleted where people repeatedly say "oh well - there's always AI" or "I really wanted to be an XYZ, but only LMN gave me a bid - they are the loser org, so I'm going to wait for AI" -- IT HAPPENS. If you haven't seen it, then you are lucky.

Sorry, but hateful isn't a violation of the TOS. If it were, then I think that GC would be a very empty place. Everybody has their opinions about things - its learning to respect their right to have their own opinion that gets so many people hung up

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
A Few Have made this site so serioius of wanting to control it that THE FUN IS GONE!

Maybe that is why so many have quit?

How much more fun has to leave before you quit? Just asking for future reference

[blueangel]

<<What?! This is an unpaid position? Well am I supposed to send back all the money that I have received thus far in my mod career?>>

I thought it was. I'm a moderator of four forums (not on GC), and I do it because I love it, I don't get paid for any of them. I wasn't aware things were different here. I stand corrected.

<<blueangel, I am glad that you are sticking up for Tom - someone probably should - but you would know the very definition of the word reprehensible if you knew some of the lengths he has gone to in order to be insulting to so many of us. >>

If what you allege is true, do two wrongs make a right? Wouldn't it have been a better tactic to e-mail the person you felt was insulting you? And.. if you didn't get satisfaction, don't you feel it would have been prudent to go straight to John in private? Why the need to go public?

<<As far as this forum goes - I understand that it can and has been helpful to many people. Believe me, I am not alone in thinking that is has also been detrimental to the AI process in other ways (aka, blowing sunshine, etc. etc.). I am sorry that I cannot revive old posts that have since been deleted where people repeatedly say "oh well - there's always AI" or "I really wanted to be an XYZ, but only LMN gave me a bid - they are the loser org, so I'm going to wait for AI" -- IT HAPPENS. If you haven't seen it, then you are lucky.>>

Yes, I've seen posts that said, "Well, there's always AI"-- but I've seen them on the RUSH forum. So... this being the case, do you feel the rush forum should be eliminated?

I haven't seen any posts about people wanting to go AI stating the only bid they got was to a loser organization in college. And.. since nobody has been able to reproduce these alleged posts, then they must be quite rare. So then, why the need to destroy a forum which helps so many PNMs for AI when the posts you speak of are nowhere to be found?

<<Sorry, but hateful isn't a violation of the TOS. If it were, then I think that GC would be a very empty place. Everybody has their opinions about things - its learning to respect their right to have their own opinion that gets so many people hung up >>

I'm sorry to hear you feel that GC would be a very empty place without being "hateful." This is disappointing to me because I had always thought that as Greeks, we strive to live our ritual. Isn't being "hateful" contrary to that?

Don't you agree there are other ways for people to express their opinion without being "hateful?" I'm sure you've heard the "attack the idea, and not the poster" phrase. In the forums I moderate.. that is the golden rule, and I've found that we're more popular because people know they can post their opinions without being attacked. I'm all for a good, juicy debate.. but done so with respect.

For example.. one of my best friends is on the total opposite political pole as I am. We got into some pretty good discussions during the elections. But, in the end, we always agree to disagree, and then go shoe shopping together!

__________________

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally posted by blueangel
[BIf what you allege is true, do two wrongs make a right? Wouldn't it have been a better tactic to e-mail the person you felt was insulting you? And.. if you didn't get satisfaction, don't you feel it would have been prudent to go straight to John in private?
__________________ [/B]

You're assuming this hasn't already been done............which would be a VERY bad assumption.

[33girl]

The only reason for the creation of the AI subforum was the AI threads were taking over the alumni forum. Real alumni issues weren't getting discussed because people were tired of wading through the AI threads and avoided the forum totally. So, we split it. The intention was not to further publicize, condone or push AI. The same thing happened with the splits in the Chit Chat forums.

However, since doing that some people seem to think that since there's a forum for it that it is much more common than it really is.