Recruitment-"my child does no wrong"

[carnation]

Arrrgghhh.

So some woman posted in a group that her daughter is rushing at an SEC school with a high GPA and a lower SAT. (of course, her daughter "doesn't test well". Who really does?) She wanted to know if sororities at that school look at SATs and ACTs. I replied that yes, at least some do. She didn't like that.

I wrote that one reason for that is high schools that toss out A's like candy so as not to be sued by parents. This has been going on for years, and the only way to compare grades among students is to have everyone take the same test. She and her buddies didn't like that.

As a professor and teacher of maaany years, I have seen what happens if colleges don't use standardized tests. We would get the applications from the students with the high GPA/low tests, and be suspicious about the student's college capabilities. Sometimes a committee member would beg to admit the student, that surely no one could have a 4.0 and do badly. Yes, they could. Especially if they were from this one nearby candy-tossing high school, they often didn't make it past freshman year.

So some of the women went on and named someone in their past who succeeded in college with low test scores--and great for them! It is not the norm! Then they went on to say how unfair it was that their precious daughters might be judged because they didn't test well.

I guarantee that these will be the same moms who call Panhellenic after recruitment and scream that their kids didn't get a fair shot at "a good sorority" and demand that they get to re-rush immediately. Waiting to hear Little Darling's recruitment results...

[FSUZeta]

Hear, hear!

[Phrozen Sands]

They’re still going to be judged regardless. That’s just life.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by carnation

Then they went on to say how unfair it was that their precious daughters might be judged because they didn't test well.

Can't WAIT to hear the end of that story! And BTW, is HeliMom unaware that college, and indeed LIFE, is FULL of tests???

[carnation]

Probably not, she'll be the mom that calls and screams at the kids post-college bosses for years.

[Phrozen Sands]

Originally Posted by thetalady

Can't WAIT to hear the end of that story! And BTW, is HeliMom unaware that college, and indeed LIFE, is FULL of tests???

Lol! Facts!

[lake]

I would've been so pissed if my mother had inserted herself into things she had no business researching or asking about on my behalf before I went to college or prior to recruitment. I was a young adult and acted like one.

Things are so different now.

[jolene]

As far as SAT, I teased our daughter that the farther from home she took the test, the better she did. We had a last minute visit to Chicago for a memorial service and switched her SAT location. She did the best ever. I joked that if she wanted to take it again, we're sending her to Alaska.

[Sciencewoman]

The ACT and the SAT have becoming optional at so many schools, I don't think we'll be seeing them have much impact moving forward. The latest statistic I saw is that over 80% of schools are now test optional for admissions, as is the state university where I teach. As a department chair, I get the weekly admissions and enrollment reports. For this year's incoming class, 58.3% did not submit test scores. Last year was 30%.

https://fairtest.org/test-optional-list/

There is mixed data on whether test scores predict college success -- check the source, because there is "pro test" data from studies that were funded by the the test companies themselves. Other data indicate a stronger correlation with HS GPA.

[AnchorAlumna]

I've seen plenty of girls (and guys) with low ACTs/SATs and great grades. I think it shows they're willing to work hard for good results.
Do they work to Phi Beta Kappa level?
Usually no, but they still pass with decent grades.
Regardless, that first and second year of classes is what sorts them out.
High ACTs/SATs don't guarantee anything.

[andthen]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

I've seen plenty of girls (and guys) with low ACTs/SATs and great grades. I think it shows they're willing to work hard for good results.
Do they work to Phi Beta Kappa level?
Usually no, but they still pass with decent grades.
Regardless, that first and second year of classes is what sorts them out.
High ACTs/SATs don't guarantee anything.

This!! I was one of those who scored poorly on my SATs and yes when I went to college it had an impact on my application (I got rejected from some schools), despite the fact that I had a good GPA. In college I did well, in part because the classes I was taking were classes that were of interest to me and of course classes associated with my major.

I am glad there is less emphasis on SAT scores, I've seen plenty of people with high scores either 1. barely graduate high school, or 2. flunk out of college due to poor grades.

On the flip side yes there are people who get fantastic scores and do well grade wise in college but to just lump people into this or that, just stinks. And nope my parents never called anyone to intercede on my behalf. I had a high school guidance counselor tell me to not apply to one state U because she said I likely wouldn't get in. I applied anyways and got in, and while I didn't go there, I did it more just to spite the old bag. And yes I made sure I stopped by her office after i got the acceptance letter from that particular school.

[jolene]

Where she applied SAT/ACT was a big factor. She did get into the honors college at my alma mater, but she graduated with a 4.0 (had athletics, extra curriculars, and volunteer stuff) and only got wait-listed to one of her choices. If you are applying to a competitive school they do matter.

[Sciencewoman]

Originally Posted by jolene

Where she applied SAT/ACT was a big factor. She did get into the honors college at my alma mater, but she graduated with a 4.0 (had athletics, extra curriculars, and volunteer stuff) and only got wait-listed to one of her choices. If you are applying to a competitive school they do matter.

The Ivies are test optional now, as are many flagship publics (Michigan, Texas, etc.). I don't think that it hurts to submit tests if you're a strong test-taker, but the list of schools requiring them has really shrunk in the past 3 years.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman

The ACT and the SAT have becoming optional at so many schools, I don't think we'll be seeing them have much impact moving forward.

There is mixed data on whether test scores predict college success -- check the source, because there is "pro test" data from studies that were funded by the the test companies themselves. Other data indicate a stronger correlation with HS GPA.

My completely anecdotal experience is that the people who test "well" don't always get where they want because the testing doesn't reflect their actual grades or success in school. My husband's nieces both took the LSAT during the summer of 2021: one is super smart but has okay grades, didn't study, and got a 174; the other had excellent grades, studied her butt off and got something like a 170.

Who actually got into her first choice law schools during the first round, and who ended up being waitlisted every place she applied?

Long story short, there isn't much correlation with retention after freshman year. With that in mind--my take is that an SAT score is irrelevant for sorority recruitment. They've already gotten into the college!

[aggieAXO]

I was one of those students that tested poorly on the SAT. I was a straight A student and knew how to study and take tests in various courses but was horrible at standardized testing. My brother was the same way. I succeeded in college despite this - getting into veterinary school at Texas A&M on early admissions which was very difficult to do. My brother, who made only 1 B in college,graduated Summa cum laude in computer/software engineering. I went to undergrad with several of my high school friends who were merit scholars and they were very mediocre students, one almost failing out. I truly believe standardized tests are useless and do not show what a student can really accomplish.