Gay alumni

[midwest00alum]

I'm an alum that's about 10 years out of college.

I just moved to a new city for a job. It happens to have a major university with a very, very large Greek system.

I am interested in, and excited about the possibility of, getting involved as an alum. I feel I have a lot to offer, and also it would be good to meet people including the other local alumns.

The only thing is -- I'm gay. In the years since I left college, I've become active in the gay community, and also have a very low tolerance now for bullying and other behaviors that marginalize gay people. I'm not one to make a scene, but it hurts when I see those kinds of situations, and I hate seeing others get hurt or demeaned by thoughtless behavior.

So, I'm wondering about this choice. I might meet the chapter members and alums, and find them to be terrific people who could care less about my sexuality. Or I might find out that it is a place where intolerance reigns. That would be disappointing, because when I joined my fraternity many years ago, I always wanted it to be a lifelong affiliation.

Another two choices, I suppose, are these - I could contact the interfraternity council and see if any volunteer help is needed for campuswide Greek events (thus avoiding a possibly uncomfortable direct interaction with the chapter.) Or, I could try to find out which fraternities on campus have a reputation of being tolerant, welcoming, and gay-friendly, and explore volunteer opportunities with them. But, the doors might not be open to me as an alum of a different fraternity.

And the third thought is, do I be upfront and let people know I'm gay right when I meet them, or do I just let that fact be known to people subtly as I get to know them? Would any brothers, parents, or alumni be upset if I kept that private? It's just an awkward situation. Fraternities and sports might be about the last two places where there is still a lot of discomfort about homosexuality.

Thanks for any ideas.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by midwest00alum

I'm an alum that's about 10 years out of college.

I just moved to a new city for a job. It happens to have a major university with a very, very large Greek system.

I am interested in, and excited about the possibility of, getting involved as an alum. I feel I have a lot to offer, and also it would be good to meet people including the other local alumns.

The only thing is -- I'm gay. In the years since I left college, I've become active in the gay community, and also have a very low tolerance now for bullying and other behaviors that marginalize gay people. I'm not one to make a scene, but it hurts when I see those kinds of situations, and I hate seeing others get hurt or demeaned by thoughtless behavior.

So, I'm wondering about this choice. I might meet the chapter members and alums, and find them to be terrific people who could care less about my sexuality. Or I might find out that it is a place where intolerance reigns. That would be disappointing, because when I joined my fraternity many years ago, I always wanted it to be a lifelong affiliation.

Another two choices, I suppose, are these - I could contact the interfraternity council and see if any volunteer help is needed for campuswide Greek events (thus avoiding a possibly uncomfortable direct interaction with the chapter.) Or, I could try to find out which fraternities on campus have a reputation of being tolerant, welcoming, and gay-friendly, and explore volunteer opportunities with them. But, the doors might not be open to me as an alum of a different fraternity.

And the third thought is, do I be upfront and let people know I'm gay right when I meet them, or do I just let that fact be known to people subtly as I get to know them? Would any brothers, parents, or alumni be upset if I kept that private? It's just an awkward situation. Fraternities and sports might be about the last two places where there is still a lot of discomfort about homosexuality.

Thanks for any ideas.

I suppose I'm going out on a limb here, because I'm straight...but...

I think you're over-thinking this. Why don't you get involved with your specific fraternity, and if it's not a fit for you to volunteer there (for whatever reason) then don't continue past your original commitment. Like it or not, college kids (boys, in particular) can be immature beings, so things can be said that are ignorant and without thought. Here's your opportunity to gently get them to thinking about the other side of issues. Start thinking now how you would handle a situation that you're uncomfortable with...would you make a big deal of it? Maybe, if the situation warranted it. More realistically, you'd find a way to gently pull the offender aside and give them food for thought.

Also, I don't think you need to make some public announcement about your sexuality. Much like I don't walk into a room and do the same.

Here's the thing, I would be upset and having a "teaching moment" with an undergrad if she said something offensive about gay people or other ethnicities, etc... That's just part of being an advisor.

Feel free to bash on me if I'm crazy here...

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

Also, I don't think you need to make some public announcement about your sexuality. Much like I don't walk into a room and do the same.

Privilege is invisible to those who have it. --Dr. Michael Kimmel

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Privilege is invisible to those who have it. --Dr. Michael Kimmel

Ok, because I'm having a dense moment...what exactly do you mean by that? Frowny faces in your signature are throwing me off...?

[Senusret I]

If you are a straight person, you do not have to think about what your daily public proclamations of being straight are - but you do indeed make them.

For gay people, living our lives in the exact same way as you (or any other straight person) may indeed come off as a public announcement, depending on who is observing it.

You have privilege as a straight person. It is invisible to you because you have it, just as my privilege as a man is often invisible to me because I am not the oppressed class (when it comes to men and women).

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

If you are a straight person, you do not have to think about what your daily public proclamations of being straight are - but you do indeed make them.

For gay people, living our lives in the exact same way as you (or any other straight person) may indeed come off as a public announcement, depending on who is observing it.

You have privilege as a straight person. It is invisible to you because you have it, just as my privilege as a man is often invisible to me because I am not the oppressed class (when it comes to men and women).

Got it. Totally see your point, SI. But, relating to the OP, (in your opinion) am I correct in suggesting:

Originally Posted by shirley1929

Also, I don't think you need to make some public announcement about your sexuality.

?

My last line in that paragraph " Much like I don't walk into a room and do the same." was probably unnecessary. However it (and I didn't explain this well) was to drive home the point that he's a brother just like the rest and shouldn't (IMO) have to make some giant announcement about who he is. In theory, they should accept him for the badge he wears. However (and this has been discussed here with transfers) that's not always the case.

The other point I wanted to bring up is that if the group is what he fears:

Originally Posted by midwest00alum

Or I might find out that it is a place where intolerance reigns. That would be disappointing, because when I joined my fraternity many years ago, I always wanted it to be a lifelong affiliation.

That this does NOT mean it is no longer a lifelong affiliation. Much like different chapters are different at different schools, he just might not feel a connection with this local chapter (for SEVERAL reasons, the above not withstanding), and that's OK. It shouldn't demean his overall view of the fraternity.

[midwest00alum]

Senusret -- thank you.

The only way I can know if I am going to be welcomed/accepted in an organization is if there is a policy that states it.

The same goes for churches, schools, jobs, etc. etc. that I want to affiliate with. I've become very vigilant about that. Because laws in our country don't provide for my safety and equal treatment, I have to rely on organizational policies.

Otherwise I'm just relying on people to be nice and rely on their own judgement without having any guidance from leadership on the topic, and in the real world, people aren't always nice and don't always do what's kind unless they have guidance, official support, and leadership, i.e., a policy.

I think Sig Ep recently added sexual orientation to its non-discrimination policy. Trust me if that was in place when I was an undergrad, it would have been a major, major factor in my decision of where to rush. I wasn't sure I was gay when I started college, but I sort of knew.

I like some things you mentioned too, Shirley, thank you, but I'm anxious because I don't know what kind of reception I'll receive, and this is big to me, I gave my heart to this organization when I pledged that first semester.

Just like the Catholic church and Scouts retrenched and got extremely conservative and closed-minded about gay issues, I guess my biggest fear is that the fraternities without inclusive policies are in denial mode or retrenchment mode too. And yeah, that's probably a worst case scenario and I am probably worrying too much.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

If you are a straight person, you do not have to think about what your daily public proclamations of being straight are - but you do indeed make them.

For gay people, living our lives in the exact same way as you (or any other straight person) may indeed come off as a public announcement, depending on who is observing it.

Front-loading people about it could make for one awkward moment, but at least I'd have the chance to plan what to say, and I'd find out a lot about their receptivity, and we'd get all those difficult conversations over with, and the air would be clear when all of that is done. That's sort of the proactive way of doing it.

Otherwise, it could make for some surprise moments down-the-line, and if they happen at the wrong place/wrong time or with the wrong person, it might not go so well. That's more like the Don't Ask, Don't Tell way of doing it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

I suppose I'm going out on a limb here, because I'm straight...but...

If you are "straight" then what are those people who are not heterosexual?

And in this heterosexist and heterocentric society, I am sure there are ways that your heterosexuality oozes out of you. Examples include the use of gendered language. For example, heterosexuals are more comfortable (across contexts) to bring up their significant others and it is not difficult to figure out that their significant others are of a different gender than they are.

I often use gender neutral language around nonfriends and nonfamily. One time, I was talking to a married couple at a college alumnae/alumni reunion. The married couple got annoyed because they could not figure out the gender of my significant other, and therefore my sexual orientation, and said "look, you keep saying that...is it a he or she...are you gay? LOL...Why are you talking like that?" When I explained who my significant other is, they said "(sigh of relief) Good! We were getting scared for a minute! So, he's on his way to this event, right?" Um...what in the shit are they scared about?

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Privilege is invisible to those who have it. --Dr. Michael Kimmel

Indeed it is. The power majority does not have to walk around proclaiming or explaining anything--but they still do so.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

Got it. Totally see your point, SI. But, relating to the OP, (in your opinion) am I correct in suggesting:
?

My last line in that paragraph " Much like I don't walk into a room and do the same." was probably unnecessary. However it (and I didn't explain this well) was to drive home the point that he's a brother just like the rest and shouldn't (IMO) have to make some giant announcement about who he is. In theory, they should accept him for the badge he wears. However (and this has been discussed here with transfers) that's not always the case.

I know what you intend to say but, again, heterosexuals make announcements practically all day and everyday. Heterosexuals don't necessarily walk around proclaiming and explaining for the sake of "pride" but it still boils down to pride in a sexual orientation that is not labeled as deviant.

Do you think he would walk into the meetings/gatherings and automatically say "hello, I am homosexual....?" Perhaps he would say something that heterosexuals say all of the time "my life partner/or significant other/or boyfriend/or husband, Tom, and I went to an awesome new restaurant today..." and that is how the "announcement" would happen.

[DTD Alum]

I always thought an interesting way to sort of "expose" the privilege is to take a day and mentally count every time you see or hear something that is definitively about straight relationships/sexuality (a magazine ad, a commercial, lyrics to a song, a co-worker talking about a date using gendered pronouns, a couple holding hands, etc) and then compare it to the number of times you see/hear something comparable about gay relationships/sexuality. Once you realize that 99.999999% of the things you'll witness/hear in a given day are specifically about heterosexual relationships, it gives a little insight as to how a gay man or woman simply saying something as innocent as "Oh, I went on a great date last night with this guy" is viewed as flaunting your sexuality or making a statement.

I always thought it was interesting that one ostensibly gay "thing" (for example, a commercial with a gay couple) is often criticized by the masses as being "too much"/"we don't need to see that!" and over the top, whereas gay men and women could easily be subjected to hundreds of comparable commercials and ads featuring straight relationships in a given day. And then you wonder why gay youth feel abnormal even if their family/friends accept them...it can be hard to already feel different and then see dozens (if not hundreds) of references to the "normal" sexuality in a given day, while seeing none that represent your views. It can be very isolating.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

I always thought an interesting way to sort of "expose" the privilege is to take a day and mentally count every time you see or hear something that is definitively about straight relationships/sexuality (a magazine ad, a commercial, lyrics to a song, a co-worker talking about a date using gendered pronouns, a couple holding hands, etc) and then compare it to the number of times you see/hear something comparable about gay relationships/sexuality. Once you realize that 99.999999% of the things you'll witness/hear in a given day are specifically about heterosexual relationships, it gives a little insight as to how a gay man or woman simply saying something as innocent as "Oh, I went on a great date last night with this guy" is viewed as flaunting your sexuality or making a statement.

I always thought it was interesting that one ostensibly gay "thing" (for example, a commercial with a gay couple) is often criticized by the masses as being "too much"/"we don't need to see that!" and over the top, whereas gay men and women could easily be subjected to hundreds of comparable commercials and ads featuring straight relationships in a given day. And then you wonder why gay youth feel abnormal even if their family/friends accept them...it can be hard to already feel different and then see dozens (if not hundreds) of references to the "normal" sexuality in a given day, while seeing none that represent your views. It can be very isolating.

And by "gay", you mean "gay or disabled or jewish or black or fill-in-any-non-majority-group here".

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

And by "gay", you mean "gay or disabled or jewish or black or fill-in-any-non-majority-group here".

Well frankly no, I meant gay specifically since the thread was discussing how simply telling somebody you are gay can be seen as flaunting or making a statement.

[ElieM]

I hope you give your alumni group a chance, as you say is your first thought.

Perhaps if they are less than welcoming, you could work to help the fraternity as a whole adopt the kind of non-discrimination/acceptance policies you seek in the other organizations you affiliate with, thus making your lifelong affiliation with your fraternity something you feel you can be proud of.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

Well frankly no, I meant gay specifically since the thread was discussing how simply telling somebody you are gay can be seen as flaunting or making a statement.

Thank you.

I get what she was trying to say, but I've never had to decide whether or not I'd be proclaiming my blackness when walking into a room.

[als463]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Privilege is invisible to those who have it. --Dr. Michael Kimmel

Seriously? The fact that you just quoted one of the most incredible men in academics makes you awesome in my eyes! I cited him in many of my papers in my 1st Masters program and I had the pleasure of hearing him speak when he came to my campus last year. You are officially awesome in my book!