Black Conservatives and Bro. Joseph C. phillips

[The Cushite]

How many of you knew that "Martin" from the Cosby Show is a brother of Alpha Phi Alpha and a black conservative writer
http://www.josephcphillips.com/. Anyway, he was on a panel at The New Black Vanguard Conference II that was basically about black conservatism and it's response to black leadership. The panel came on C-span 2 today and I was amazed at how the moderator (who was black preacher named Rev. Jesse L. Peterson) was able to say some of the most outrageous, self hating garbage about black people (he actually stated that "most black folks are just immoral", and that "You can't be a Christian and vote democrat"). I just can't believe that the Heritage Foundation and the conservative movement in general give this guy credence.

Back to "Martin" er..uh, Bro. Phillips, after listening to him, I don't think that this guy is a political conservative in that he just simply holds traditional values about personal responsibility, faith and family. These are not politically conservative values. He often found himself disagreeing with the other panelists because they were actually political conservatives in that they believed that inequality is justified and is mainly caused by the immoral actions of individuals. I think that his views were along the lines that America has gone away from valuing things like family and faith and the result is we see an overall decline in the quality of life of everyone. The government is charged to "Do its duty" to protect the natural rights of citizens that have to make good (read "moral") choices in order to have better lives. This isn't political conservatism, this is more political libertarianism. Political Conservatism wants to limit government unless it rewards people for having capital, while libertarianism is more about focusing government on protecting the natural rights of people rather than giving people percieved advantages. Neither one sees the realistic possibility of nor necessity to address social inequality in a profound way.

Check out these websites of the people that were on the panel and tell me what you think of conservative thought in light of the struggle for freedom, justice, and equality for all black people.

Heritage Foundation Website: http://www.heritage.org/press/events/ev101105a.cfm

The org. founded by that 'ignant' moderator: http://www.bondinfo.org/

A black conservative blogger: http://www.lashawnbarber.com/

The (in)famous Shelby Steele: http://www.hoover.stanford.edu/bios/steele.html

Blackwatch!!!!!!

[Sistermadly]

Phillips' views remind me of John McWhorter's views. Both these men are conservatives only in the fact that they don't usually spout the traditional Democratic Party line about Black people and poverty/personal responsibility, but that they generally break camp in terms of a lot of the core conservative tenets.

Then again, Bush &Co. have broken with a lot of the core conservative tenets as well...

[Honeykiss1974]

I wouldn't mind seeing this program so I hope C-span will re-air it at some point.

I will say that regardless if you (as an african american) identify yourself as "conservative" or "libertarian", because it is not the label of "democrat" there is a majority of other african americans that have a misconception that you are somehow disconnected or (to put it plainly) don't care about the plight of AfAms. Truth be told I do think more AfAms would identify themselves with the conservative - maybe even libertarian thought, but don't for fear of being ostracized by the black community.

In general, I really do think that most african americans want to see more families staying or getting together, more responsible parenting, better schools, educational opportunities, a return to familial values and respect (How many threads are on GC that we speak of some bad kid that "needs a good whuppin'" to straighten out bad behavior or how we wouldn't dare talk to our parents in a certain manner?). Whether you subscribe to a conservative or democratic thought, those principles are typically shared by all.

Now how we implement these things....that's another story.

[CrimsonTide4]

Did not know he is an Alpha, but he has a weekly column on www.eurweb.com that I read from time to time.

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by The Cushite
How many of you knew that "Martin" from the Cosby Show is a brother of Alpha Phi Alpha and a black conservative writer
http://www.josephcphillips.com/. Anyway, he was on a panel at The New Black Vanguard Conference II that was basically about black conservatism and it's response to black leadership.

...rest deleted for space.

I did. I met Bro. Phillips two years ago at the fraternity's Western Regional Convention in Denver, Colo. He's good friends with a chapter bruh, so I'm made aware of Bro. Phillips' work from time to time. ....some of it I get with, some of it I have to put aside.

This whole "Black conservative" thing is interesting, and really depends on the label you attach (as your post suggests). Traditionally, "we" are very much in the country's conservative strain. Haven't seen recent quantifiable statistics, but generally, we tend to attend church more regularly than the nat'tl average, we support "fair" policing (because our communities benefit first by its implementation), support school vouchers, etc... Historically, our family have been tighter (we just didn't put our elderly in nursing facilites, and pregnant girls went "away" to live with Big Ma) to have the babies, etc..

Sure, you can spotlight segments of our community and get a different picture, but in the main, I don't think our "conservatism" is at issue...Now if you ask why it doesn't translate into more Black Republicans, that's a different, and worthy, question.

I'm aware of LaShawn Barber and Shelby Steele, and some of the sites you've listed. Others are new for me and I'll have to review them.

[The Cushite]

During the panel, Bro. Phillips noted that he suspects that about 90% of Black america is conservative, but only10% will claim republican party affiliation. While I don't think that 90% of our community is conservative politically, I do think that the majority of us (myself included) hold to traditional values of faith, family, and personal responsibility. Now, these things don't translate to republican politics because I, like most black people, realize that the possibility of having a better life isn't solely left up to personal choice. In order to have "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", we have to have our "natural right" to choose, pursue and possess these things protected. These are the things that Dr. King, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, Malcolm X, and other revolutionaries were fighting for. This is what just government is all about. Now, A facsist reading of this says that we as individuals have to protect these things (might makes right). But a radical democracy says that governments are instituted by men to protects these rights. That is the idea put forth in the Declaration of Independence. This is also what Bro. Philips calls the traditional values of America.

Now, if we do an honest assessment of the history of America, we will see that the government has done a poor job of protecting the natural rights of minorities. I see this as the main source of inequality in America, therfore there must be a reform of the social order through direct redress by the American government in order for the government to begin to adequately protect the rights of blacks. This is where I disagree with conservatives. They don't think that inequality exists today because of historic and systemic causes. Therefore, inequality is the result of moral inadequacies of disadvantaged people. Government shouldn't do anything but reward people for being good capitalists (tax cuts and market driven policies). Sort of trickle down theory of government and morality.

Blackwatch!!!!!!

[Sistermadly]

There's also Michael Bowen, an Alpha and a conservative, who runs a blog at http://www.mdcbowen.org/cobb/.

[Steeltrap]

^^
I have been on Cobb and find him interesting.
I'm a centrist who isn't affiliated with either party. This is a good convo, and I'll have more thoughts tomorrow.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally posted by The Cushite

The (in)famous Shelby Steele: http://www.hoover.stanford.edu/bios/steele.html

Corrected link

http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/bios/steele.html

[darling1]

do you think that the perception of the republican party has prevented some of us from swinging in that direction? or is that we know innately that there is no party that can truly represent us?

Originally posted by The Cushite
During the panel, Bro. Phillips noted that he suspects that about 90% of Black america is conservative, but only10% will claim republican party affiliation. While I don't think that 90% of our community is conservative politically, I do think that the majority of us (myself included) hold to traditional values of faith, family, and personal responsibility. Now, these things don't translate to republican politics because I, like most black people, realize that the possibility of having a better life isn't solely left up to personal choice. In order to have "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", we have to have our "natural right" to choose, pursue and possess these things protected. These are the things that Dr. King, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, Malcolm X, and other revolutionaries were fighting for. This is what just government is all about. Now, A facsist reading of this says that we as individuals have to protect these things (might makes right). But a radical democracy says that governments are instituted by men to protects these rights. That is the idea put forth in the Declaration of Independence. This is also what Bro. Philips calls the traditional values of America.

Now, if we do an honest assessment of the history of America, we will see that the government has done a poor job of protecting the natural rights of minorities. I see this as the main source of inequality in America, therfore there must be a reform of the social order through direct redress by the American government in order for the government to begin to adequately protect the rights of blacks. This is where I disagree with conservatives. They don't think that inequality exists today because of historic and systemic causes. Therefore, inequality is the result of moral inadequacies of disadvantaged people. Government shouldn't do anything but reward people for being good capitalists (tax cuts and market driven policies). Sort of trickle down theory of government and morality.

Blackwatch!!!!!!

[enigma_AKA]

Originally posted by darling1
do you think that the perception of the republican party has prevented some of us from swinging in that direction? or is that we know innately that there is no party that can truly represent us?

PREACH!! I had this same discussion the other day--Why do so many of us feel like the Democrat Party is FOR US and the Republican Party is AGAINST US? Alot of times, do we even know why we feel aligned with either party?

We rarely look at the other factors of conservatism and liberalism (Republican v Democrat); that is the less federal government -more state governance/less regulation of BIG business/harsher crimes for criminals/etc versus more active governance/more regulation of business/promotion of social welfare/less regulation of social norms ('to each his own' thinking) because it's easier to say "I'm a Democrat and Republicans can kiss my a$$", without ever doing the research to truly proclaim allegiance to either party.

This is sad. In response to darling1's comment, NO, I don't think most of us know that no one party can truly represent our interests. But then, what are OUR interests?

enigma_AKA

[Sistermadly]

I think it was the Republican party's Southern Strategy that turned a lot of African Americans away from the party. I'm not religious, nor am I socially conservative, but I find myself agreeing with a lot of the rhetoric surrounding personal responsibility and the role it plays in our communities. Where I differ from conservatives like Steele is that I also understand and acknowledge that there is a legacy of social and political disenfranchisement that contributes to the state many of our communities are in.

I too am a registered Independent, but I have to say I'm going to find it mighty difficult to vote for any Republican who is the poster boy (or girl) of the Religious Right.

[Sistermadly]

In case you're interested in reading some of McWhorter's essays, you can find them here: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/mcwhorter.htm

[enigma_AKA]

Originally posted by Sistermadly

I too am a registered Independent, but I have to say I'm going to find it mighty difficult to vote for any Republican who is the poster boy (or girl) of the Religious Right.

What if they truly believe in the Republican platform? Why do they have to be a poster boy/girl for the GOP/Religious Right? Why can't they just really like the Republican party: what they stand for and what they are about? And what about the poster children of the Democrat party? Is it easier voting for them because they are percieved to 'stand for' what 'we'/you are about?

I'd hate to think people were active in the political process just to be someone else's so-called poster child and not research their own opinions. This might be the case for some, but really, not for ALL.

enigma_AKA

BTW--Not trying to 'rag' or anything, but I will play Devil's Advocate because most of what I am studying involves Political Parties/Public Opinion and I am interested in how this plays out. Especially considering the rise of the conservative black coalition...

[Sistermadly]

enigma_AKA: I have issues with the way the Religious Right is using fear, misinformation and ignorance to try to change the political discourse in the United States. My particular beef with them at this moment involves how they've tried to demonize gay marriage, but my list is literally longer than my arm. Because of that, a GOP candidate who rides on the Rel. Right's coattails (or espouses their talking points) will never get my vote.

What it really boils down to is that I don't think the Religious Right's agenda is truly a Republican agenda. I think the GOP has been co-opted by some pretty insidious forces, and that this takeover has been in the works for decades now, and started with -- you guessed it -- the Southern Strategy.

I don't think the ideals of personal responsibility and smaller government are solely Republican ideals, just as I don't think the issues of social justice and interest in the general welfare are Democratic ideals. Nothing in life is as black and white as political pundits will have us believe.

As I've said before, I'm not religious -- I firmly believe in a separation of church and state. Show me a moderate Republican who tells the Religious Right to take a flying leap at a rolling doughnut, and I'll gladly pay attention to what he/she has to say. Until then, I'll always have a raised eyebrow whenever someone from the GOP speaks.