Independent Chapter?

[lenoxxx]

Ok - lets get some threads rolling - at least for Tom

What do you all think of Lambda Chi going to a college where they dont want Greeks or Lambda Chi- Franklin and Marshall come to mind- they have 8 fraternities but dont recognize any of them- should we go in?

Here is an article on that from Syracuse about ATO- some fraternities do this= should we?

Lenoxxx

FROM ONLINEHERMES.com

Independence comes with price, chapters weigh advantages
By Jason Grunberg

Every year salmon go against the current to spawn and proliferate.

The same is true for independent greek chapters nationwide. The chapters and their members must strive to recruit new members and keep their chapters alive in an inflexible system.

But salmon have a significant advantage over independent chapters – the fish swim the same route every year, but for the chapters, they are venturing through unfamiliar waters, said Wynn Smiley, Alpha Tau Omega's national chief executive officer.

“This is something completely new for us, and our typical policy is to get rid of a chapter once the host institution dissolves the local chapter,” he said.

Syracuse University’s Alpha Tau Omega is the only independent chapter of the fraternity's 240 nationwide. Their national policy is not atypical of other nationals nationwide, Smiley said.

National greek organizations rely on local institutions to support their chapters through greek advisors and the dean of students. Individual chapters do not have access to those support systems and are often times failed experiments, he added.

“You really want to work in conjunction with any host institution because we certainly rely on them quite a bit,” he said. “Independent chapters were something we always wanted to stay away from.”

Theta Tau, one of SU’s three independent chapters, is similar to many other Theta Tau chapters nationwide. The fraternity is often branded with independent status because their national regulations conflict with those of the Interfraternity Council.

Because Theta Tau is a national engineering fraternity, they only allow engineering majors to join the fraternity. This goes against IFC rules because the chapter discriminates against anyone who is not an engineering major, Theta Tau brother John Wise said.

Theta Tau's new member education period also conflicts with the IFC. According to IFC regulation, the education period can be a maximum of six weeks, but for Theta Tau, six weeks is the minimum.

Although Theta Tau is not a member of the IFC, the chapter will only worry about recruitment if SU’s engineering college is dissolved, Theta Tau brother John Carpenter said.

“Theta Tau members aren’t people who would have joined other fraternities in the first place,” said Carpenter, a sophomore mechanical engineering major. “They are people who before going to college never though about going greek.”

Although chapter numbers are typically used to determine a chapter’s success, Bill McClung, Theta Delta Chi national executive director, uses a different scale for independent chapters.

The success of an independent chapter is based on both their national’s willingness to recognize such chapters, and the status of their host institution, McClung said.

“The hardships faced by independent chapters differs from campus to campus, but the major differences can be seen between public and private institutions,” he said.

Theta Delta Chi opened its first independent chapter in the mid-1990’s in Greensboro, North Carolina. McClung thinks the chapter has a greater chance of survival because its host institution is public.

“Generally private colleges usually move to assume a great deal of control of that aspect of student life, so operating a greek organization becomes difficult,” he said. “The situation becomes indefinitely more complicated when an organization attempts to become independent of a university.”

In the 1950s, Williams College, McClung’s alma mater, took total control of its greek community and soon prohibited any student from joining greek letter organizations. Because Williams is a private institution, students could not contest the decision in any public arena, so the greek system died there.

But public institutions are unable to impose similar restrictions because they can be successfully challenged in court, McClung said.

Because independent chapters can have difficulty surviving, McClung hopes the Greensboro chapter will soon join the local Interfraternity Council. By joining the council, he believes most survival difficulties will be avoided, provided the chapter follows IFC and national regulations.

“We don’t have anything parallel to the Greensboro chapter because all of our chapters are recognized,” he said. “Regularizing the situation will make it easier on us as a national and on the chapter because any real antagonism or hostility will probably be solved when they are recognized.”

[SkipRock]

If the university does not recognize a fraternity, then neither will their HQ. Independent chapter are risk mangement nightmares because they are not recognized by national fraternities, thus these chapter do not follow the laws of the fraternity.

Perhaps I am way off topic or we are thinking of two different ideas of independent chapter.

[lenoxxx]

David-

Let me clarify. Independent chapters like the ones mentioned in this article are as folows

1- Chapters recognized by a national but not a college- Such as ATO at Syracuse. ATO nationals is supporting it but Not syracuse university. Another example is TKE at Univeristy of Tennessee. They work under the tenets of their national in regards to risk management , initiation etc.

2- Schools where the college wants no Greeks and acknowledges no Greeks but there is a Greek system- the only example I know of is- Franklin and Marshall College.

F&M is interesting because while the college doenst "recognize greeks" they have one on campus greek house for Chi Phi and several chapters that have 90+ members and large houses. For years it has been Lambda Chi's policy not to bend the rules to go there. Sigma Pi, Delta Sig, Skull and a host of others have supported their independent groups for years there.

What youare refering to I would call underground groups- no national or school bakcing but still maintaining a national name identitity. We have about 6 such chapters on the east coast. And there seems to be no soluiton in sight for that either!

Lets get the conversation rolling!

Jason Lenox
Phi Tau Zeta #274

[lenoxxx]

WIth F&M college we used to have a huge chapter there until 1980

The Alpha Theta Zeta chapter- with over 1300 alumni.

Jason Lenox
Phi Tau Zeta #274

[carnation]

I was told that a few years back, Texas A&M didn't want Greeks but sororities formed anyway off-campus and the school gave up and recognized them; they're now a strong system.

Also, the sororities at Stanford were said to have re-formed after an absence despite nat having university approval, which they now have.

[lenoxxx]

With alot of the ones you see examples of- if the national supports it it seems as if the school caves in after a while.

The other question is for off campus housed greeks- how much are the colleges really doing for them?

Jason Lenox

[SkipRock]

Jason, thanks for the clarification.

[lenoxxx]

Now that we have clarified what is being discussed- Lets get some opinions on what Lambda Chi Should or shouldnt do with this new "gray area"

Jason Lenox

[Tom Earp]

Jason, as you and I know, there are gray ara chapters out there of other Fraternitys! But I do not beleive our Inrernational will work any where in that direction! If they are welcomed on campus with open arms then we wont! If enuff Nationals go ahead and do this, I think the schools will also go along and revcognize them! Many schools are aginst Greeks but we do a hell of a lot more for the schools than they realize!

Since we are looking to build a new house, and we see Brothers donating to the U. We suggest to them, put the money toward the house and Chapter where it will do us more good!

I paid my money to go to school and the only reason I go back is for the chapter!!!!!

If we do not grow, we wither and die! We have a big overhead at Interntional to pay for along with the Risk Insurance!

I for one say go for it if there is a group that is interested!

Besides, I am not to impressed with the new Digital site! I suggested that they put in the General site again as had more on it than the others and to adverise it in the C & C!

Da so far nothing!!!!!!!!

[Corbin Dallas]

We must be thinking of a different Franklin. There's a Franklin in Franklin, IN. with a Lambda Chi Chapter. Actually, that's where Eric Richards (risk management at IHQ) went to school.

[Tom Earp]

J and S would love to find this one out myself!

The International sight is back up and digital is working again but hell I am once again the only one posting on it! What do we do, we have one of the very best overall sites of any National Group in Greekdom!

The only problem is they will not hear us, I have written them via e-m but never get anything back!

I am not sure if I can get away and afford the cost of the regional meeting in Feb. but if this keeps up I damn well might! They may throw me out, but heck, I have been ask to leave other places!

Hell, get on the reg. site of GC and get Brothers on our thread. The TKE site is usually jumping!

I check it out as Erik Conard was the one instrumental in getting me towared LXA and working in the back ground to help!

[lenoxxx]

Yes there is a Chapter at Franklin, and a dormant chapter at Franklin and Marshall College in PA


hope it clarifies

Jason Lenox

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
The International sight is back up and digital is working again but hell I am once again the only one posting on it! What do we do, we have one of the very best overall sites of any National Group in Greekdom!

Actually Tom, I think my money has to go to the sigma chi website. www.sigmachi.org. Very professional, almost like a news site. I would like to see more content and less pretty at lambdachi.org. Just like a news site, tools, happenings, and maybe a daily chapter spotlight. IHQ is ALWAYS beating it into our heads about intrafraternalism and they think the answer is "GO to GA, Leadership Seminar, and Regional Leadership" And thats it. Dont THEY feel THEY have some culpability in all of this? Maybe the website would be a great place to start. Could really serve to connect the zetas. Of course, withthe exception of Marty Smith, most GHZ members were PLEDGES. People who havent been collegate in about 40 years, and have no concept of what it means to be collegate today. Maybe THATS why they cant get ZETAS to respect risk mgmt issues, or recruit like they should. Eventually they are gonna have to understand that maybe being hostile to the Zetas isnt the best long term solution. Case in point: IHQ refuses to give out its 800#. They want to save overhead. I can respect that. Maybe shouldnt it be about customer service? Heres an Idea: Lets get that Mailroom organized and get AM pins sent out in a timely manner. Hell how about not having to wait a YEAR for membership certificates? (not even going to mention how I had to DRIVE to INDY to get mine. <was actually passing though, but had waited 8 months> so I stopped by founders road to pick it up.) That'd be a start and the 800 # would be a kind gesture. Would show that the GF is about meeting the Zetas needs. Dont think it would put the GF into recievership. If it would, how about cutting half of that middle management it supports. My rant is done.


PS: I think the toll-fee number is 1-888-873-9617. I turned our former SAC rep upside down and shook it outta him. Write it down and USE IT. Hell, were paying the bill anyway.

[Tom Earp]

Life, you are right about International being backed up!

Heck, they do not a lot of the new Brothers on the roles and are charging for ones that have Graduated! We are talking several thosunds of $$$$$that tey want us to pay!

Will check out the SX site as get a chance!

You guys check out the U Rhode Island site! If they have not changed it, they do a heck of a jobe with the Coat of Arms! Contact Brother jacob Lee there and let him know you got from me! He is great Brother!!!!!!!!

[lenoxxx]

OK so are we toally off subject into "nationals sucks" as opposed to my original thread about opening zetas where schools dont give them a thumbs up?

Or maybe that has something to do with the old dudes that arent hip to change?

Jason Lenox

Phi Tau Zeta #274