Mall Shooting

[shinerbock]

I think it is interesting that the person is Muslim. It may or may not have been the motive, but its amazing how you'll only hear this fact on conservative talk radio. CNN is now reporting that he is a survivor of a travesty in Bosnia. I realize this is an interesting development, but it seems odd to me how they'll go out of their way to discuss someone's troubled past, but skim over a possible motive. PC at its worst.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think it is interesting that the person is Muslim. It may or may not have been the motive, but its amazing how you'll only hear this fact on conservative talk radio.

Funny I was going to comment on that too... that they seem to think that the shooter being a Muslim was the only important fact - though now that I think about it kinda is isn't it? I mean how many Muslims have gone postal in a shopping mall or school? Normally it's just Christians going postal and shooting up a place isn't it?

Oh well I guess we'll have to accept that Muslims can go postal as well now

[Bob Dole]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Funny I was going to comment on that too... that they seem to think that the shooter being a Muslim was the only important fact - though now that I think about it kinda is isn't it? I mean how many Muslims have gone postal in a shopping mall or school? Normally it's just Christians going postal and shooting up a place isn't it?

Oh well I guess we'll have to accept that Muslims can go postal as well now

I accepted the fact that Muslims can go postal after they flew planes into buildings. Anyone who goes into something and doesn't plan on surviving is "postal" in my books.

Also, these events are reasons why people should carry handguns. I would have loved to have shot that fucker several times.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think it is interesting that the person is Muslim. It may or may not have been the motive, but its amazing how you'll only hear this fact on conservative talk radio. CNN is now reporting that he is a survivor of a travesty in Bosnia. I realize this is an interesting development, but it seems odd to me how they'll go out of their way to discuss someone's troubled past, but skim over a possible motive. PC at its worst.

I've met and hung out extensively with Bosnian muslims. They do not wear their religion on their sleeve like the middle-easterners we're used to seeing. They try to blend in and be as normal as possible. I just cannot see religion as a motive in this at all. He was a very disturbed young man. The stories I've heard about the Bosnian war are a little horrific, so it's possible it affected him more than anyone knew, or he was just going to be like this no matter what or where he was living.

[shinerbock]

Centaur, I'm not saying yes or no, but I think you saying that about an entire branch of a religion would be like me automatically assuming it was his motive. I understand the reasoning behind not painting this person as a violent muslim without the facts, but its almost as though new orgs go out of their way to avoid mentioning that someone is a muslim. Its not the media's job to keep people from jumping to conclusions, its there job to give an unbiased version of the factual information (I know, this is pretty much impossible now).

Even more than this instance, I just think its pathetic how the media tip toes around the fact that a person is muslim. I absolutely guarantee you that if the shooter was a far right wing anti abortion activist, it would be a factor before now. At some point we need to begin having honest dialogue about the dangers involved in parts of the muslim community and stop using kid gloves on everything. God knows we have no problem getting to the core of problems with other religions.

Side note, RA, yeah, tons of Christians go "postal" in the name of Christianity. Happens all the time...

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

...but its amazing how you'll only hear this fact on conservative talk radio.

It seems to me that "main line" media doesn't generally bring religion into this kind of story.

The World Trade Center story and those of obvious terrorism is different, because of the magnitude and/or the terrorist implications -- state or religious sponsored in particular.

I don't think I've ever heard "A disgruntled Catholic went to the mall and opened fire..." Or, "A Presbyterian attempted to hijack an airliner..." Or, "A Southern Baptist went into a local Post Office and killed several people..."

So why does the "conservative media" (your discription, not mine) feel it's important to point out this persons religion? Isn't that a little sensationalist?

In my opinion, the religion is not relevent to the story unless it can be proven that it has something to do with the act, or that there is some soft of backing by a Muslim group. The Bosnia background seems more important to me in this case.

Is that the case here?

I don't think that's "PC" but rather standard journalism practice, and that's traditional -- not anything new.

I really don't think we want to get into the habit of reporting the religion of everyone who breaks the law.

[shinerbock]

Sure it is. The reason you don't hear "A Christian shot a guy" is because Christians, for the most part, don't have recent history of violence IN THE NAME of their religion. Muslims do. Remember abortion shootings? Or Oklahoma City? Eric Rudolph? Christian fundamentalism came up all the time then. If a muslim gang member shoots up 2 kids in SE DC and steals a wallet, no, it doesn't matter. However, when somebody drives an SUV onto a busy sidewalk or shoots up a mall, I think theres a at least decent chance it is relevant. I'm not asking for them to say "Man, Muslim, Shoots Up Mall." However, I think its absurd how hard some outlets try to avoid the subject.

[DeltAlum]

Your point is taken, but the situation here is not the same. In this case, I'm not aware than anyone has proven -- or even suspected -- that the suspect's religion was the cause of this crime.

That is not the case in the stories you mention. Those were considered by most to be committed because of some misguided religious belief.

[shinerbock]

As I stated, I have no idea what this guys motives were. I just find it ridiculous that outlets like CNN will talk about his horrible life and present possible excuses for his action, yet avoid talking or even mentioning his religion. If you're going to delve into why someone is the way they are, especially in this case, its ridiculous not to acknowledge that he is a Muslim.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

As I stated, I have no idea what this guys motives were. I just find it ridiculous that outlets like CNN will talk about his horrible life and present possible excuses for his action, yet avoid talking or even mentioning his religion. If you're going to delve into why someone is the way they are, especially in this case, its ridiculous not to acknowledge that he is a Muslim.

Well, apart from the point where Bosnian muslims are not extremists doing these things in the name of Allah...unless he yelled out 'allah akhbar!' or left a note proclaiming his intentions for his religion, he's like any screwed up human male with red blood in his veins. The Bosnian muslims I know barely practice.
I don't see why it has to be a huge deal that he's a muslim...I would never have known my friends were if they hadn't had told me. I'm pretty sure war atrocities are ranked a little higher on the scale of motives behind a tragedy like this.
Basically what I'm saying is, unless the person responsible is explicit in his reasoning for committing his crime in the name of his religion, it shouldn't come up.

[shinerbock]

I think it should come up, everything should come up. The guy shot up a mall for no good reason, I think theres every reason for every aspect of his life to be scrutinized.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think it should come up, everything should come up. The guy shot up a mall for no good reason, I think theres every reason for every aspect of his life to be scrutinized.

I guess we can just say that you and folks who teach the ethics of journalism don't agree.

As near as I can tell (and granted we don't know the whole story), religion isn't a factor here, so it's not part of the story.

I suppose, though, that "conservative" journalists never bring up things that might tend to sensationalize a story.

That only happens with other journalists.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think it should come up, everything should come up. The guy shot up a mall for no good reason, I think theres every reason for every aspect of his life to be scrutinized.

The point is that no one asks what church the Columbine kids went to. Were they Christian? Lutheran? Catholic? Baptist? I'd be surprised if their religious affiliation was ever reported, much less made an issue of. Why is religion only an issue when it's something other than Christian?

[shinerbock]

You continue to misread what I'm saying, apparently. I'm not saying we need an entire piece about his faith, I'm asking why news orgs are purposefully avoiding the subject matter. You're telling me its appropriate to delve into his past, including his presence during a massacre, yet we can't mention his religion? This thread is pretty stale now that the fact that he's muslim has come out, but it just baffles me why we go to such lengths to shield the public from facts.

I guarantee you if I was a Christian who has protested at abortion rallies or something, my faith would be on the front page when I shot up a mall.

I realize that Muslims are under a special threat in this country, but it isn't the role of the media to protect an entire religion. You act as though its unethical to examine the life of someone who killed 5 people. Whether it is or isn't, the clear precedent in journalism is to do so.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

At some point we need to begin having honest dialogue about the dangers involved in parts of the muslim community and stop using kid gloves on everything.

What about the dangers involved in parts of the Christian community? Or the Atheist community? Or the Mormon community?

I don't think the media is using kid gloves here; I think they're reporting only the aspects of the case that are actually factors in what happened. Like others have said, since it doesn't appear that his religion is the motive behind the action, it only makes sense that it (his religion) isn't broadcast.