Richard Lamm on Multiculturalism

[Takeshi]

I'd be very interested to hear everyone's opinion on this.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/lamm.asp

[Sistermadly]

Yeah, Canada's just being ripped apart at the seams by bilingualism and multiculturalism.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
Yeah, Canada's just being ripped apart at the seams by bilingualism and multiculturalism.

Europe is though.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Crackpot espousing the same tired xenophobic worry that the "true" America will be destroyed by immigration, or more specifically the immigrants being too "different". I'm sure if you took the time you can find articles from the 1950's, 1900's, & 1850's all expressing the same "fears" - and of course we all know that the Italian, Irish, German destroyed America

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by RACooper
Crackpot espousing the same tired xenophobic worry that the "true" America will be destroyed by immigration, or more specifically the immigrants being too "different". I'm sure if you took the time you can find articles from the 1950's, 1900's, & 1850's all expressing the same "fears" - and of course we all know that the Italian, Irish, German destroyed America

Sometimes, multiculturalism can go too far, and can be very difficult on the first generation. Care to comment on the Sikh kid from BC who cut off his hair and gave himself wounds and then said that he was a victim of a hate crime?

[Private I]

my line sister just sent me that a minute ago! I have to admit that I'm confused about the comment about France and Basques-it's far more of an issue in Spain than in France...

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Sometimes, multiculturalism can go too far, and can be very difficult on the first generation. Care to comment on the Sikh kid from BC who cut off his hair and gave himself wounds and then said that he was a victim of a hate crime?

See but that's not really a product of multiculturalism... that's a problem with the family - kid wanted to cut his hair and hang with a different crowd... so he made up a story to cover up the fact he got his hair cut. To me that is a problem within a cultural group itself - something that all cultural groups face regardless of whether they are multi or monocultural.

Ideally multiculturalism means that one can celebrate their own culture, or be free to experience or celebrate the cultures of others... it's fluid and changing, just as the cultural make-up and cultures themselves are fluid and changing. Multiculturalism does not mean conforming to some monolithic cultural ideal, nor does it mean that each culture within society is in competition with one another.

Which gets me back to the point that the incident wasn't a product of multiculturalism, because technically in a "ideal" multicultural society the kid would have been free not to follow a strict definition of his "native" culture.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by RACooper
See but that's not really a product of multiculturalism... that's a problem with the family - kid wanted to cut his hair and hang with a different crowd... so he made up a story to cover up the fact he got his hair cut. To me that is a problem within a cultural group itself - something that all cultural groups face regardless of whether they are multi or monocultural.

Ideally multiculturalism means that one can celebrate their own culture, or be free to experience or celebrate the cultures of others... it's fluid and changing, just as the cultural make-up and cultures themselves are fluid and changing. Multiculturalism does not mean conforming to some monolithic cultural ideal, nor does it mean that each culture within society is in competition with one another.

Which gets me back to the point that the incident wasn't a product of multiculturalism, because technically in a "ideal" multicultural society the kid would have been free not to follow a strict definition of his "native" culture.

Well, that's not how most people interpret it, and why I'm not a big fan of multiculturalism.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Well, that's not how most people interpret it, and why I'm not a big fan of multiculturalism.

I see... so you'd be happier with the "Classic" Canadian culture that was basically the culture of the UK - even though the United Kingdom was pretty multicultural even 200+ years ago?

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by RACooper
I see... so you'd be happier with the "Classic" Canadian culture that was basically the culture of the UK - even though the United Kingdom was pretty multicultural even 200+ years ago?

Let's just say that some groups seem to be stricter when their kids are trying to be "Canadian" than others, and I don't think it's really all that "nice."

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Let's just say that some groups seem to be stricter when their kids are trying to be "Canadian" than others, and I don't think it's really all that "nice."

Ehhh...

Thats always been the case really - the Scots and Irish not wanting their kids to be "too" English (re: Canadian at the time); or the French, Italtians, Greeks, Native Canadians, Newfies, Quebecers, etc... It's usually a case of 1st and 2nd generation coming down strong to reinforce their cultural heritage when confronted by the variation in Canadian society - however I've noticed that from the 2nd generation on there seems to be less of an issue.

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by RACooper
I see... so you'd be happier with the "Classic" Canadian culture that was basically the culture of the UK - even though the United Kingdom was pretty multicultural even 200+ years ago?

That same 'classic' Canadian culture which, if it were still in place, would not have welcomed Taualumna's ancestors at all?

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by RACooper
Ehhh...

Thats always been the case really - the Scots and Irish not wanting their kids to be "too" English (re: Canadian at the time); or the French, Italtians, Greeks, Native Canadians, Newfies, Quebecers, etc... It's usually a case of 1st and 2nd generation coming down strong to reinforce their cultural heritage when confronted by the variation in Canadian society - however I've noticed that from the 2nd generation on there seems to be less of an issue.

Yes, but sometimes, the immigrant generation is so strict on their children that they end up doing something stupid (like the kid from BC...don't forget that they were going to press charges on him) to achieve what they want. Real life isn't always a happy ending like immigrant movies such as Bend it Like Beckham or My Big Fat Greek Wedding

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Yes, but sometimes, the immigrant generation is so strict on their children that they end up doing something stupid (like the kid from BC...don't forget that they were going to press charges on him) to achieve what they want. Real life isn't always a happy ending like immigrant movies such as Bend it Like Beckham or My Big Fat Greek Wedding

No they aren't... sometimes conflicts are brought over from the old country and continued here... you should read about the problems with the Orangemen in Ontario in the 19th century - and the burnings and retaliations between Orange families and Catholics for having family/children that dared to fall in love or God forbid get married (like in my family history).

For the most part though even the strict immigrant families intergrate to some extent as the generations pass.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by RACooper



For the most part though even the strict immigrant families intergrate to some extent as the generations pass.

Normally, it takes one generation (or sometimes, even half a generation) for people to integrate. However, when culture clashes are far too great, well, it can take a long time.

Sorry....bad experience growing up.....(my parents didn't know about the Brownies. I told my Grade 2 teacher, who encouraged my mom to sign me up...and that's not all...there are further issues that that I'd rather not discuss on this board...I still have issues with my family...)